Brand new here and really angered by...

[plain 12]

This goes to the very heart of the reason behind separation of church and state.

That's not really applicable here. Seperation of church and state means that the government shan't force anybody into a state-approved religion. Doesn't mean that we must have a secular government.

I really don't understand how people can say in one breath that they have "friends" and "relatives" who "they love" who are gay but they still don't want them to have the same rights as straight people do in this country.

And I don't understand why our culture is being continually "dumbed down" with every passing generation.....but still. I'm one of those people you're refering to. I have a couple of gay friends and several lesbian friends. I love them dearly. And yet, if it came up for a vote, I would vote against "marriage" for them. I whole-heartedly support a civil union that would grant the same legal rights as a marriage. Maybe that demonizes me in some eyes....IDK.....I don't personally have any problem reconsiling both positions.

[BethFromVA 5]

That's not really applicable here. Seperation of church and state means that the government shan't force anybody into a state-approved religion. Doesn't mean that we must have a secular government.

And I don't understand why our culture is being continually "dumbed down" with every passing generation.....but still. I'm one of those people you're refering to. I have a couple of gay friends and several lesbian friends. I love them dearly. And yet, if it came up for a vote, I would vote against "marriage" for them. I whole-heartedly support a civil union that would grant the same legal rights as a marriage. Maybe that demonizes me in some eyes....IDK.....I don't personally have any problem reconsiling both positions.

Awesome post, Plain!

I too have some fanTAStic neighbors who are gay, but if it came up for a vote, I too would vote against marriage.

Whether some here agree or not, many of us are able to be friends with people and disagree with and vote against an issue such as gay marriage. I don't know why it is when some people don't get the open-armed responses they want from people, they try to guilt or bully or demean them into changinging what they believe. I'm not just talking about here... I see it everywhere.

That's why we have a vote. The vote doesn't go the way one group wants, so they appeal to an ultra-liberal court who legislates from the bench. And to think that a flamingly leftist state like California couldn't pass gay marriage... that speaks volumes.

The people have the right to vote in the legislation they want and vote down the legislation they don't want such as gay marriage. Like the presidential election, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and get Obama. :eek:

[pattygreen 5]

Everyone can make a decision to sleep with someone else or not. Whether you feel homosexuals are born that way, or whether they're not, the decision to have sex with the same sex as you are is a choice that a homosexual makes. If a girl has a strong desire to be sexual with her brother, or viceversa, they can make that choice not to be sexual with each other because they know God would not approve of it. So can homosexuals.

[plain 12]

If a girl has a strong desire to be sexual with her brother, or viceversa, they can make that choice not to be sexual with each other

Great....Now ya tell me....

[Nanook 2]

RSG well done!!!

I'm sure it fell on deaf (or angry) ears, but I am sure that they welcome your right to say it.

Nancy, your daughter is lucky to have such a supportive mom.

My daughter had a girlfriend in high school whose brother, a year younger, was gay. His parents were Evangelical Christians and very active in their church. When their son went to them and asked them how God could make him be a gay person when their minister said it was wrong in God's eyes, they were shocked. They had no idea that he considered himself a homosexual.

They took him for counseling with their minister. They got him professional counseling with a psychiatrist who gave him antidepressants. The parents insisted that he chose to be gay and that with a lot of prayer and guidance, he could live a "normal" heterosexual life. It was a year of pure hell for poor Chris.

Chris was gay. Period. He did not choose it to test his parents. He did not choose it because he just wanted an alternative lifestyle. No drugs or instruction from anyone could make him un-gay. When he explained that to his parents, they threw him out of the house - at age 16. They told him that as far as they were concerned, they had no son.

Chris lived on the streets for a couple of years. His sister and my daughter helped him as much as they could, secretly because they knew the parents would throw their daughter out and ban my daughter from their house if they knew they had given any help to Chris.

He wound up on drugs. He had no self-esteem. In fact, he hated himself for what he was. He contracted aids. He is getting governmental assistance in a program that my sister runs. Otherwise I doubt that he would be alive today. Not that living is something he wants to do very much.

I am pretty sure that his parents and that minister are going to hell for what they did to Chris.

BJean that's a really tragic story but similar ones I've heard before. I just don't understand how people in the 21st century still believe that people choose to be gay and that they believe it is some type of abomination. To me if a parent treats their child like this it is a definite form of abuse!! I really feel for this kid but hopefully with the help of your family and others he can live a better life than he was before. I just don't understand how people today can still treat people who are gay this way and especially their own child.

I moved away from my hometown over 20 years ago and spent some time with my best friend recently, who happens to be gay and just found out that a mutual friend of ours had died of AIDS and so did his wife. He died in the late 80s and she in the early 90s. I guess it just really threw me for a loop because I didn't expect it. But AIDS touches all our lives whether gay or straight it can happen.

Anyway you are a great parent too to have raised such a wonderful daughter who would help a friend like that. Not everyone would so you deserve a pat on the back. She sounds like a mini BJean in the making!

I believe people should feel shame if they feel this way about gay people and know that it is wrong. Just as wrong as it was to prohibit blacks and whites to marry so is it wrong not to allow same sex couples to marry. Anyone who says then "siblings should marry, and people can marry children, or animals is just being asinine!:eek: Nancy:smile:

[plain 12]

Anyone who says then "siblings should marry, and people can marry children, or animals is just being asinine!:eek: Nancy:smile:

Ok then, what about polygamists? Are you cool with that?

[BethFromVA 5]

I believe people should feel shame if they feel this way about gay people and know that it is wrong.

People are entitled to feel the way they feel, Nanook. Just like you can't dictate morality onto people, neither can you dictate morality out of people. That's what's great about freedoms.

Anyone who says then "siblings should marry, and people can marry children, or animals is just being asinine!:eek: Nancy:smile:

It's really not a far throw. Have you checked out what NAMBLA wants to try to pass? The right to engage in sexual acts with boys because it, too, is "inborn" and not a choice. It's not asenine.

[Donna113 2]

Judging others for judging others... I'm too simple minded to grasp this concept.

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

Ready- I wasn't comparing your relationship to that of a goat, etc... I was examining other possibilities. However, you did seem to skip the "Can I marry my sister?" question. Convenient.

Secondly, people in America can choose to get married, everyone can... a man to a woman and a woman to a man. If you want to be married and get those discounts, a woman can find a man and marry him for the tax benefits. You can do that under our law. You just don't get those "perks" if women finds a woman to "marry". The people have now spoken TWICE, which is more significant than a 4-3 judicial ruling.

I feel like I've said everything I feel like saying about this topic. I get annoyed when people are narrowminded and try to thrust their labelistic views on everyone and refuse to have a conversation. Instead, some have resorted to sarcasatic comments and name calling. That's not helpful. It just means that you have nothing of substance to back up your claims. I have beliefs that do not include homosexual "marriages". That doesn't make me intolerant, it makes me human. I've taken a topic, weighed the pros and cons, and made a decision. Like we all should do as citizens.

[plain 12]

It's not that I'm narrow-minded....It's just that I'm right and everybody else is wrong.

[BethFromVA 5]

It's not that I'm narrow-minded....It's just that I'm right and everybody else is wrong.

Hehe, me too. :laugh:

[Donna113 2]

It's not that I'm narrow-minded....It's just that I'm right and everybody else is wrong.

I feel your DW's pain.

[plain 12]

Hehe, me too. :thumbup:

I'm afraid you're wrong about that. I however, remain right. :laugh:

[BethFromVA 5]

I once thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

[BJean 16]

I totally understand that some of you all believe that marriage should be for a man and a woman exclusively.

However I can't understand why it matters so much to you whether it is legal for same sexes to marry. It is obviously incredibly important to them. But why is it so important to you to bar them from being legally married?

I had this discussion with my nephew. He has some good friends who are gay and living together. He loves them and cares about them, but doesn't believe that they should be able to be legally married even though they've been together a very long time. I asked him why he cared. I asked him how his gay friends marrying could affect him in any way. He didn't really answer that, just reiterated that marriage is for a man and a woman and no one else.

I'm sorry I just don't understand all the opposition to it.