Brand new here and really angered by...

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

Where in the constitution does it say we have a right to be married?

Besides, prop 8 isn't about denying rights, if you read more information you'll find that the CA constitution provides for civil union rights between same sex couples. Why does it need to be called marriage?

[Froggi 4]

Civil rights isnt the same as an actual marriage. I don't think it's fair that they can't officially be married like a man and woman can.

[plain 12]

The people who started this proposition (from out of state in the mormon church) could care less about free speech, justice, or voting.

That's too funny. When you posted that Prop 8 was started by a bunch of Mormons (a few posts back), I assumed you meant to type "morons", and was just gonna let it slide....but nope, apparently it was indeed Mormons, eh?? That made me lol.

But when people make it my business -- by trying to deny others basic human rights that belong to everyone -- well then I'll come out fighting and I consider those people to be intolerant. They can't "live and let live" and accept that their views aren't universal and maybe aren't even right.

Well, kinda yes and kinda no. "Basic human rights" is vague. What about the polygamists? Do they have a basic human right to marry 20 different people? What about the dude in the news awhile back that wanted to marry his horse (I know this comparison is somewhat offensive....but there will always be loons trying to push the envelope, legally)? There has to be a cutoff point somewhere, and no matter where it is, somebody will be crying about how intolerant the state is and how they're being denied basic human rights.

Civil rights isnt the same as an actual marriage. I don't think it's fair that they can't officially be married like a man and woman can.

I think a civil union would kinda be "more official" than traditional marriages, many of which are religious ceremonies.

[MacMadame 81]

Besides, prop 8 isn't about denying rights

If course it's about denying rights. The first words on the ballot measure are "Eliminate right of". That means if you vote yes, you voted to eliminate a right for a certain segment of the population. By definition.

That's too funny. When you posted that Prop 8 was started by a bunch of Mormons (a few posts back), I assumed you meant to type "morons", and was just gonna let it slide....but nope, apparently it was indeed Mormons, eh?? That made me lol.

I don't know if they funded putting the proposition on the ballot, but they poured heavy money into the Yes on 8 campaign from their headquarters in .... Utah.

What about the dude in the news awhile back that wanted to marry his horse

I said consenting adults. Are you going to argue that a horse is an adult, let alone a consenting one? :smile2:

I think a civil union would kinda be "more official" than traditional marriages, many of which are religious ceremonies.

I would be so happy if the government got out of the marriage business and just had civil unions -- for everyone. Then, if you wanted a religious ceremony, knock yourself out. But as long as a judge is saying "by the power vested in me by the state of [fill in the blank], I now pronounce you married" then they have to do it for everyone, not just a favored few. Anything else is discrimination.

Edited November 6, 2008 by MacMadame

[rrod0991 0]

Coming from CA I was torn by prop 8. Having a gay brother and my husbands cousin is a lesbian I do believe they should be allowed the privilege of marring the person they love but I don't agree with teaching it to children in school. What happened to the separation of church and state? Marriage is a spiritual thing and I don't believe you need a piece of paper but I think you should be allowed to hold a service of some kind if you choose. Marriage of any kind should not be taught in school and sexuality should only be taught in sex ed where I think they should teach the older children both heterosexual and homosexual ways of life since most homosexual people know that they are from a young age. We should teach tolerance not hate. By teaching the heterosexual lifestyle is the only lifestyle we are teaching that homosexuals are different. We are all human and have feelings, if you think they had a choice do you think they would choose homosexuality as hard as people can be on them?

If you don't agree with the taching you can opt out of letting your children attend or send them to public school. You don't have to agree with the teachings but what if it was your child that was gay and confused about their feelings after living with the hypocrisy of the world where they are told the only way to live is against what they feel inside.

So you can see why I was torn...

[ReadySteadyGo 8]

Here's what I don't understand though, and perhaps someone can share their views...

In my mind, there is something biologically wrong with being gay/lesbian because if everyone were gay/lesbian, humankind would cease to exist. If nature had intended for same sex people to be together, it would have made it possible for same sex people to reproduce, since we have this internal drive to keep living and what not.

I also do not understand how believing against gay marriage makes me intolerant. I'm not speaking anger against anyone, yet somehow I'm a demon because I have a different view.

Interracial marriage, again, is a MAN with a WOMAN. Capable of reproduction, man and woman.

I never said you were a demon, you are allowed your own beliefs.

What I said is I don't care what you believe, but if someone was trying to take your rights away whether I agreed with you or not I would fight for you.

If everyone was straight (before birth control) maybe the world would have overpopulated ourselves out of extinction years ago.

But all that is silly, and I won't discuss biology with you. You feel this, I feel that. What matters is you don't let your beliefs hurt someone else.

By taking away civil liberties from a group of people simply because of your own beliefs (be they personal, religious, or other) is cruel.

They, I, am asking not for your approval, but for your tolerance. If I choose to get married, how does that affect your belief? How does my marriage invalidate yours?

I don't think you are either demon or saint, I just ask that noone take away my rights as a human being because I will not lie to myself or those around me.

[ReadySteadyGo 8]

I would be so happy if the government got out of the marriage business and just had civil unions -- for everyone. Then, if you wanted a religious ceremony, knock yourself out. But as long as a judge is saying "by the power vested in me by the state of [fill in the blank], I now pronounce you married" then they have to do it for everyone, not just a favored few. Anything else is discrimination.

I agree. Do you know what I think would be good. If the government only recognized civil unions. Peroid. The church's could still have their marriages, and could be married in the eyes of whatever religious diety they chose, but our government only recognize civil unions, not marriages.

For the GLBT community and all straight couples. Seperate but equal just doesn't work.

[ReadySteadyGo 8]

Where in the constitution does it say we have a right to be married?

Besides, prop 8 isn't about denying rights, if you read more information you'll find that the CA constitution provides for civil union rights between same sex couples. Why does it need to be called marriage?

You don't have the same rights with a civil union, this is not about California, this is about step backwards.

Besides, most of the Prop 8 commercials were lies. Churches were not and would not be forced to marry gay couples, Teachers would not be forced to teach gay marriage in schools. And the "rights" are flawed because that ammendment in California is flawed. It's not the word I care about. It's certain churches sticking their big nose in government business and disrupting peoples lives.

[ReadySteadyGo 8]

Let me add this then I promise to stop flooding this thread. Copy and pasted. Italics from constitution.

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Clause 1: The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States."

In other words, no State has the right to ignore civil agreements reached in other States. So if a same-sex couple in Massachusetts, or California, gets married, no State has the right to ignore that marriage. In fact, all States are required to recognize that marriage, because it is a Civil matter.

So, if I got married to my SO in a state that it was legal, they couldn't keep me out of the hospital room as she was dying if we happened to be in a state it was not. If not, they can. In many other states they do not recognize even civil unions. All states recognize a marriage. So if I am legally married, even in a state that doesn't think I should be, they can't keep me out.

Plus. If the more progressive states allow marriage, then hopefully in the years to come the southern states will take the less (to them) extreme allowance of recognizing civil unions. This is my hope, but if there is no marriage in places like California, then there will be no civil unions in louisiana.

I don't care about the word, I care about the rights. Some people do care about the word because they are very religious and want their marriage to be in the eyes of God. Gay doesn't mean Godless. So for them, I fight for it, and argue for it. For me, I demand the same rights that anyone else gets.

Edited November 6, 2008 by ReadySteadyGo

[green 6]

Where in the constitution does it say we have a right to be married?

Besides, prop 8 isn't about denying rights, if you read more information you'll find that the CA constitution provides for civil union rights between same sex couples. Why does it need to be called marriage?

Most people tend to be quite sentimental. They like to Celebrate their love for and commitment to each other by getting married. At present only straight Americans are able to do this; when viewed this way prop 8 is a denial of rights. I don't think that this is fair. Do you?

[Nanook 2]

I also don't see how states can approve things and take it back constantly like CA has. To me it's totally insane and possibly should be taken out of the hands of the states in put in the hands of the federal government and make all marriages between any two consenting adults legal!!

[green 6]

Some of the provinces here decided that same sex marriages were legal and then the federal government of Canada picked up the idea and ran with it. The Liberal party which was at the time the party in power proposed a bill to make same sex marriages legal across this country. Though there was a lot of outcry at the time this bill passed. Now everyone accustomed to the idea. It really is no big deal.

[Daisalana 33]

Ten years ago people were saying the same thing about interracial marriage. That it was against God, that They races should only marry their own. The thing is that didn't feel the need to make a law BANNING it. I don't have a problem with not marrying in a church, I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE TAKING MY RIGHTS AS A HUMAN BEING AWAY!!! I don't even want to get married, but I don't want someone telling me I can't because of their own out dated beliefs. I think that it is cruel.

.

Actually, here in Alabama it is banned for interracial marriages. It's an old law on the state constitution, and I know a few years ago they had a whatever to try to update the constitution, and I believe they decided to leave the interracial marriage ban in as historical nostalgia-- but it's no longer enforced.

[Daisalana 33]

Central Park Zoo's gay penguins ignite debate

Roy and Silo, two chinstrap penguins at the Central Park Zoo in Manhattan, are completely devoted to each other. For nearly six years now, they have been inseparable. They exhibit what in penguin parlance is called "ecstatic behavior": That is, they entwine their necks, they vocalize to each other, they have sex. Silo and Roy are, to anthropomorphize a bit, gay penguins.

At one time, the two seemed so desperate to incubate an egg together that they put a rock in their nest and sat on it, keeping it warm in the folds of their abdomens, said their chief keeper, Rob Gramzay. Finally, he gave them a fertile egg that needed care to hatch. Things went perfectly, and a chick, Tango, was born. For the next 2 1/2 months they raised Tango, keeping her warm and feeding her food from their beaks until she could go out into the world on her own. Gramzay is full of praise. "They did a great job," he said.

The first time I read this story it really touched me!

[Nanook 2]

Some of the provinces here decided that same sex marriages were legal and then the federal government of Canada picked up the idea and ran with it. The Liberal party which was at the time the party in power proposed a bill to make same sex marriages legal across this country. Though there was a lot of outcry at the time this bill passed. Now everyone accustomed to the idea. It really is no big deal.

How can we be so close to Canada in location yet so far in ideals. This always amazes me! You're lucky!