Why don't y'all see?

[kerimezz77 0]

My husband made an interesting point about " share the wealth"

Imagine you are in a college class. You work you butt off and pull off an A. But there are a few who don't work as hard........

The teacher says....... I know that some of you are hard workers, but I have decided to give you all a c+

So does that make sence.......

Just wondering....

[JamieNP 20]

It will make sense soon! Guess I need to pick up some overtime so the druggie trailer trash down the road can fund their habits and get medical insurance.

[coltonwade 27]

LOL! Your information is incorrect. You keep trying to infer I was banned or suspended and I have news for you, it never happened.

But if that is your best shot, continue. Please. Do note, I have been a reg here much longer than you. I am pretty sure I would know if I was banned or suspended.

WASA is correct she has never been banned or suspended . And frankly what does it matter ?

If anyone has anything PERSONAL to say or to bring up with another member take it OFF THE BOARDS PERIOD !!!!

Mindy

[droppindown 0]

The world we live in is a complex one. A simple allegory like the one your husband created has some value as an idea, but does not emcompass the real world situations and practicality.

The problem is that if we do not give some help to those less fortunate than ourselves, regardless if it is self imposed or not, the situation only gets worse. The cycle of poverty only increases in size and we end up worse in the long run. For the children born in this situation, there is often, very little hope of breaking out unless SOME assistance is available ie; affordable health care resources.

The impovrished will ALWAYS exist. Let's all work together to keep the numbers as low as possible and help the people who want out of the cycle to get out. Those who do not want out will always unfortunately exist and be a drain, but what is the alternative? No assistance and a swelling impovrished population, and a bigger crisis for everyone.

[kerimezz77 0]

The world we live in is a complex one. A simple allegory like the one your husband created has some value as an idea, but does not emcompass the real world situations and practicality.

The problem is that if we do not give some help to those less fortunate than ourselves, regardless if it is self imposed or not, the situation only gets worse. The cycle of poverty only increases in size and we end up worse in the long run. For the children born in this situation, there is often, very little hope of breaking out unless SOME assistance is available ie; affordable health care resources.

The impovrished will ALWAYS exist. Let's all work together to keep the numbers as low as possible and help the people who want out of the cycle to get out. Those who do not want out will always unfortunately exist and be a drain, but what is the alternative? No assistance and a swelling impovrished population, and a bigger crisis for everyone.

YES but I don't feel the need to work as hard as I do, and WE just get by...... he is a US soldier... and now I am bracing my self that my husband will not get the funding he needs for future issues.....as well as a job! We are in one of the POSTS that train other countries.... yes we help others. You lovely new elected man, wants to close them... where does that leave my family and my husbands JOB.

So why do I need to work hard to just freely give that money back......hell no. My kids need shelter, food, clothes, and since we are just getting by........... I need MY MONEY THAT I WORK for!!

I will be Damned to Share the little wealth I have

[Elisabethsew 50]

I'm all for working to help those less fortunate but NOT by just handing them money. Oprah did a show that clearly showed giving a person money is nothing more than a short term fix. What is needed is more outreach programs, apprenticeships, trade schools, and scholarships. I am a big sister (Big Brother/Big Sister Program) to two young ladies and hope I can make a difference to them and for them.

[JamieNP 20]

I was one of those women that was at poverty level years ago. I divorced an abusive husband and had a new baby that I raised. I worked 2 jobs went to school and now make great money. My daughter just graduated from a large college with 2 degrees and is heading to grad school (she is national guard, so with that and academic scholarships, she paid for school). When I was single, I did not rely on handouts. I worked hard and raised my daughter to do the same. I know of many people that abuse the system. We have a welfare system that COULD work....we just have to many abuses.

Edited November 9, 2008 by JWRN

[coltonwade 27]

I'm all for working to help those less fortunate but NOT by just handing them money. Oprah did a show that clearly showed giving a person money is nothing more than a short term fix. What is needed is more outreach programs, apprenticeships, trade schools, and scholarships. I am a big sister (Big Brother/Big Sister Program) to two young ladies and hope I can make a difference to them and for them.

OHH I saw that show that was SO interesting ! I was amazed at how that worked out.

Mindy

[kerimezz77 0]

Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime”—Author unknowGive a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime”—Author unknown

I just think that we are going to have more people worse off than we do now.....if we don't follow the above !

[Devana 0]

I'm all for working to help those less fortunate but NOT by just handing them money. Oprah did a show that clearly showed giving a person money is nothing more than a short term fix. What is needed is more outreach programs, apprenticeships, trade schools, and scholarships. I am a big sister (Big Brother/Big Sister Program) to two young ladies and hope I can make a difference to them and for them.

I did not hear anything about "handing out money". Is this what everyone thinks "share the wealth" means?

And isn't it already being done? Your (collective, not just you ES) hard earned money is going to roads that the deadbeats drive or walk on and schools that the deadbeats send their children to.

There are many people who work their asses off and still live in poverty.

I hear a general association between poverty and deadbeat-ness (is that a word??) on these discussions. (I know you didn't say that)

[BethFromVA 5]

I did not hear anything about "handing out money". Is this what everyone thinks "share the wealth" means?

Yes, that's exactly what it means.

And isn't it already being done? Your (collective, not just you ES) hard earned money is going to roads that the deadbeats drive or walk on and schools that the deadbeats send their children to.

It's not quite the same, but true, people who live in apartments and who are illegals don't pay for schools like everybody else does. Just imagine if everybody did their fair share.

There are many people who work their asses off and still live in poverty.

I hear a general association between poverty and deadbeat-ness (is that a word??) on these discussions. (I know you didn't say that)

More often than not, there IS a correlation. I have seen waaay too many people choose to live off welfare than work two or three jobs to make ends meet. It happens all the time. This certainly isn't the America my grandparents lived in, where you actually did whatever needed to be done (legally) to survive. Today's deadbeats are expensive hangers-on and nothing more.

[JaimeSTL 4]

It's not quite the same, but true, people who live in apartments and who are illegals don't pay for schools like everybody else does. Just imagine if everybody did their fair share.

I think that depends on where you live. In live in Missouri and here, we pay personal property taxes, as well as real estate taxes. So even though I rent, I've paid personal property tax (which goes to the school district, fire department, etc, like real estate tax) since I bought my first car. You can't even license your car for the year without proof that you've paid.

More often than not, there IS a correlation. I have seen waaay too many people choose to live off welfare than work two or three jobs to make ends meet. It happens all the time. This certainly isn't the America my grandparents lived in, where you actually did whatever needed to be done (legally) to survive. Today's deadbeats are expensive hangers-on and nothing more.

I think it's a matter of perspective. You WANT to see more people milking the system and not working hard. I know several people personally, and see even more who come into my office, who work two or more jobs, who don't have excessive mortgages, cars, etc., who are working very hard with no help whatsoever to feed their families, keep a roof over their heads, and just meet their basic needs.

For some of these "deadbeats," there is no incentive to work. All they can find or qualify for are minimum wage jobs that won't pay all of their bills and give their children medical insurance, but if they work, they'll lose their assistance. I think there should be reform that allows for people to work, get an education, whatever, and still receive benefits until they truly can make ends meet on their own. IMO, nobody should have to work 2 or 3 jobs just to put food on the table. Of course, in this economy, even people who make a decent living are having a hard time doing that, plus those who seek extra jobs have a hard time finding them with the unemployment rate being so high.

Something has to change and if "handouts" and "spreading the wealth" keep us out of a major depression, I'm all for it.

[BethFromVA 5]

I think that depends on where you live. In live in Missouri and here, we pay personal property taxes, as well as real estate taxes. So even though I rent, I've paid personal property tax (which goes to the school district, fire department, etc, like real estate tax) since I bought my first car. You can't even license your car for the year without proof that you've paid.

Not all states have personal property taxes. I came from a state that didn't and moved to one that does. Then again, one has to have a vehicle to pay their share too, and not all do.

I think it's a matter of perspective. You WANT to see more people milking the system and not working hard. I know several people personally, and see even more who come into my office, who work two or more jobs, who don't have excessive mortgages, cars, etc., who are working very hard with no help whatsoever to feed their families, keep a roof over their heads, and just meet their basic needs.

Actually, far from it. I don't WANT to see more people milking the system. The fact is, too many do. Hell, until recently we had generational welfare recipients! Many have the belief that they are entitled. There are still some good people out there who have pride and want to do it themselves, but then we have the Jerry Springer/Maury Povitch generation who pop out babies they can't afford and just go on the system for us to take care of their problem(s).

For some of these "deadbeats," there is no incentive to work. All they can find or qualify for are minimum wage jobs that won't pay all of their bills and give their children medical insurance, but if they work, they'll lose their assistance. I think there should be reform that allows for people to work, get an education, whatever, and still receive benefits until they truly can make ends meet on their own. IMO, nobody should have to work 2 or 3 jobs just to put food on the table. Of course, in this economy, even people who make a decent living are having a hard time doing that, plus those who seek extra jobs have a hard time finding them with the unemployment rate being so high.

Something has to change and if "handouts" and "spreading the wealth" keep us out of a major depression, I'm all for it.

I agree, there needs to be an incentive. But these people can get an education easier than I can and have have help left and right. For all these single moms, they never wanted to take advantage of the free birth control all over the freakin place, but they sure have no problem sticking their hand out for the money.

I too work in the system and see TONS of deadbeat people who fit the mold I mention. I am sure I work on a different end of the system, but when I see one guy coming in who has 12 kids with 10 women and he's only in his early 30's, not paying child support, and seems very proud of himself, I just can't get on the "feel good" bandwagon.

As for unemployment, one quick fix would be to start arresting business owners who hire illegals. It's INSANE that we have unemployment, yet allow these lowlifes to stay here and steal jobs from Americans. Yet we pander to them too -- not only by looking the other way, but by forking over BILLIONS to them, their kids, etc. We KNOW where we can start fixing the problems, but for whatever reason, nobody wants to do it.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

As for unemployment, one quick fix would be to start arresting business owners who hire illegals. It's INSANE that we have unemployment, yet allow these lowlifes to stay here and steal jobs from Americans. Yet we pander to them too -- not only by looking the other way, but by forking over BILLIONS to them, their kids, etc. We KNOW where we can start fixing the problems, but for whatever reason, nobody wants to do it.

Finally, a point where we fully agree. I can't go to the grocery store without an illegal begging for money and some threaten me if I don't fork it over. It hasn't worked yet, but they try.

If you are in VA you don't have the slightest idea how serious the problem is. Of all the illegals that cross the border 50% come through AZ. The other 50% cross through all the other border states throughout the country, combined. We have a huge problem in AZ.

One in four school children in AZ is an illegal or an anchor baby and one in 10 labor employees is an illegal. I'm sick to death of the problem. CA, AZ, NM, and TX have been saying for years that when the problems are as bad in the midwest as they are on the border states, then and only then would people stand up and pay attention to reality. Our state is on the verge of bankruptcy and the problem is getting worse, not better. We have more illegals on welfare than we do US citizens. Each day at the county hospital there is a long line of illegals waiting for their free pregnancy tests and when it is positive they are thrilled! More welfare! They can't feed themselves but they actively try to get pregnant so they can get more freebies.

Now, I know you aren't going to like this but it's a reality. The 2nd most major reason I did not vote for McDummy is because he is the one that caused the majority of our problems regarding illegals. You just can't imagine the horrors he has done to encourage, allow, and protect illegals in the state of AZ. There is no way we can afford the problem we have now, can you imagine the problem we would have on a national scale if he did to the US what he did to AZ? I blame McDummy for a vast majority of our illegals.

Bush put on a good show by granting us 500 more AZ border patrol officers but what people did not realize is that he wouldn't give us $$ for border patrol. McDummy said it was okay, we didn't need the money anyway.

It would be like my saying that I will grant you a $6,000,000 home. Sure, you can have it! I encourage it! Of course, I won't give you the money for it but I grant you the house anyway.

We had a proposition on the ballots a couple of years ago where we wanted only US Citizens voting in our elections. Before it was put on the ballot it went to court. The do-gooders wanted the poor illegal darlings to be able to vote in our elections. Guess who was behind this? Yes, your friend, McDummy. McDummy supported the illegals in voting. He didn't get his way but the idiot tried.

We do not have enough NICU beds in AZ. If you come here, have a premature baby, and need a NIC-U bed your baby may get air lifted across the state because we don't have enough beds. Want to know why? McDummy decided that MX needed NIC-U beds too so he paid our staff a premium wage to move to MX with our NICU equipment and now we are taking care of MX's babies. We don't have enough beds for our own million dollar babies but we damn sure have enough to send them over to MX according to McDummy. Keep in mind, half our million dollar babies in AZ are from illegals, we are sending even more beds to MX. His thinking was that when an illegal brings their MX born premature baby to AZ for care and when we send them back, MX just refuses them in their hospitals knowing we'll take 'em back. The thinking was that if they had the staff and the equipment they'd keep their own million dollar babies. Yeah, it didn't work that way. Now the wealthy people have access to medical care for their babies and the poor still come to the US. Now we have double the expense.

Each time an illegal is in our prison system the fed gov't is supposed to reimburse us for their stay. McDummy told the gov't it was okay, we don't need the money. We are on the verge of going belly up anyway and he's turning down money the US gov't owes us?

Do you see a trend here? Do you honestly want to see this on a national level? Meaning, what McDummy has done in AZ?

I know you were all for McDummy but remember, we've suffered with him as a Senator for years. I have lived with his mistakes and mismanagement. There is no way our country could have survived him as prez and unless you have lived in AZ you have no clue how bad it is.

I truly hate the man, I can't stand him. I think both he and bush should go live out their lives on some farm far far away where they can't cause more damage to our state or our country.

Hopefully, a farm in MX. There is nobody left there anymore, they are all here illegally... so it SEEMS. McDummy and Bush would have room to run and play, McDummy could continue sniffing Bush's butt and sticking his nose up there far and high, they could make all the noise they want, and live out their lives without harming more people.

[BethFromVA 5]

You're preaching to the choir on the illegals. I spent 27 of my 43 years in Texas.

And frankly, that was THE major hitch to me where McCain was concerned. How can you be a conservative AND come from a border state and want to give amnesty?????