Should prostitution be legal?

[pattygreen 5]

Believers in Christ do not need to affiliate with any church denomination although God does say that we should not forsake assemblying together. One reason for that is so we can encourage one another. (This is how churches began. Christians met in each others homes, and when the group got too big, they moved to a building and put a name on it. Before you knew it, another building needed to be used and there was a divide in the fellowship and on and on it went) There will be many from every denomination who have asked Jesus to be their Savior and have repented of sin who will see God at the time of their death. When God speaks of the 'church' he is refering to the people who believe in Him, not the building. I, personally, attend an Assembly of God church. There is no 'perfect' denomination. You should check out a churches Statement of Faith and compare it to the word of God. I am involved in a local church because I enjoy worshipping God with other believers.

Jesus said to allow the wheat to grow with the weeds and in the end he will separate them. This was a parable he used to speak of believers and unbelievers (all those hypocrites some speak of) who dwell in the churches together.

[BJean 16]

Faith isn't as simple as you would have us believe, patty. Faith is not just the concept of believing in God because God said that we should believe in him. That would be an easy and uncomplicated task. But the fact is that it is much more complicated.

One also has to believe and have faith that God actually said what is printed in the Bible. Which requires a lot of believing, because we know that God did not physically write the Bible wherein he was quoted as having said that we must have faith in Him.

We know that only people here on earth were physically capable of writing the Bible. So what we're actually expected to have faith in, is other people.

And for many of us, that is very difficult. To explain a little further, we know that the Bible we have always had access to contains the writings of people who say they were spoken to by God, i.e., it was written by people who claim God spoke to them and that they are quoting him directly. And our current day Bible is part and parcel the edited writings of those original writings. That book of parables and teachings, the book that has become our Bible, the one book that we are asked to put our whole faith in is the same book that was not physically written by God, but it was written by people and has been interpreted and edited by people over the ages - people just like you perhaps.

[BJean 16]

Personally I would never believe that I could stop and get a drink from a glimmering hot spot on a highway in the summer. And I can grasp the concept that the sky visually seems blue to us because of many natural wonders of the earth.

And I can imagine infinity. But what we're really dealing with as people is our lifetime here on earth is how we conduct ourselves in our lifetime and where we go from here. The concept of heaven: that's a good thing to try to imagine and I'm sure most of us think about that from time to time.

But back to the here and now, regarding churches, you believe that we if we do choose to join others in worship, we must be very careful. I honestly can't tell by what you wrote, exactly how we are expected to join others in worship without offending God unless we join your particular Assembly of God Church.

And to clarify just a little more, you believe that all one must do to be sure that one will go to heaven upon death, is to have faith in God because if we believe in God we will "have faith in Jesus" and that assures us a spot in heaven?

You're saying that we don't have to be baptised or go to church to get into heaven, right? And since we are all known by Jesus and God to be sinners, and he doesn't expect us to go through life without sinning, we don't have to worry that being a bad person or a sinner will keep us from getting into heaven just as long as we have faith in God?

[Kat817 19]

BJean, not for the first time...but once again, you seem to have taken all the jumbled thoughts running through my head, and put them into eloquent, well thought out sentences. Not condemning, not ever putting your beliefs above anothers, just simple questions and subject for discussion!!!!!!

You have done it again! Love those posts, they encompass so many of the doubts and questions, that I too have had and voiced through the years, about WHY I am supposed to believe the interpretation of someone else.

Well Done!

Kat

[Carrie_C 9]

"You're saying that we don't have to be baptised or go to church to get into heaven, right? And since we are all known by Jesus and God to be sinners, and he doesn't expect us to go through life without sinning, we don't have to worry that being a bad person or a sinner will keep us from getting into heaven just as long as we have faith in God?"

I do believe that we don't have to go to church or get baptised in order to get to heaven. And we don't have to be perfect. God knows that none of us are perfect and that we are going to sin, it is our human nature. I don't have all the answers, I don't understand a lot of the Bible. I think the Bible has been edited and revised so much from its original version that it is almost imposible to understand. I do believe that all we have to do is repent from our sins and ask Jesus to come into our hearts and save us. And we have to be truthful, and honest and really mean it and really believe it. While we don't have to be perfect, I do believe that if we have truely asked forgiveness and have faith that Jesus has saved us, then we will want to live right and do good. I don't think it is a requirement to get into heaven, but if Jesus is living inside your heart, you will not want to do bad. You will want to live the best you can. But that doesn't mean we won't slip from time to time. And God knows this.

[pattygreen 5]

Faith isn't as simple as you would have us believe, patty. Faith is not just the concept of believing in God because God said that we should believe in him. That would be an easy and uncomplicated task. But the fact is that it is much more complicated.

One also has to believe and have faith that God actually said what is printed in the Bible. Which requires a lot of believing, because we know that God did not physically write the Bible wherein he was quoted as having said that we must have faith in Him.

We know that only people here on earth were physically capable of writing the Bible. So what we're actually expected to have faith in, is other people.

And for many of us, that is very difficult. To explain a little further, we know that the Bible we have always had access to contains the writings of people who say they were spoken to by God, i.e., it was written by people who claim God spoke to them and that they are quoting him directly. And our current day Bible is part and parcel the edited writings of those original writings. That book of parables and teachings, the book that has become our Bible, the one book that we are asked to put our whole faith in is the same book that was not physically written by God, but it was written by people and has been interpreted and edited by people over the ages - people just like you perhaps.

Bjean, You are right when you say the bible was written by mere men, but imagine, for illustration, that we take 66 medical books written by 40 different physicians and surgeons during a period of 1600 years of various schools of medicine, as Allopathy,Homeopathey,Hydropathy,Osteopathy, etc., and bind them all together, and then undertake to doctor a man according to that book. What success would we expect to have, and what accord would there be in such a medical book? The bible was written by Holy men of God during 1600 years.(1492BC-100AD) There are 66 seperate books written by 40 different authors. Kings, statesmen, priests, herdsmen, fishermen, tax officials, doctors, etc. Its pages were penned in the wilderness of Sinai, the cliffs of Arabia, palestine, the courts of the temple, the schools of the prophets at Bethel, Rome and on the lonely isle of Patmos, in the Aegean Sea. It is not a jumble of ancient history, myths, legends, religious speculations and superstitions. There is a progress of revelation and doctrine in it. You could not understand the book of Leviticus in the OT without the book of Hebrews in the NT. Or Daniel without Revelation. Yet when all the books are compiled together to make the 1 bible, it forms perfect unity. No mere man could have written it without divine inspiration from God. It would be impossible.

Also, with the discovery of the dead sea scrolls, it has been proven that the written word of God has been miraculously preserved over the years without 1 mistake.

[pattygreen 5]

Personally I would never believe that I could stop and get a drink from a glimmering hot spot on a highway in the summer. And I can grasp the concept that the sky visually seems blue to us because of many natural wonders of the earth.

And I can imagine infinity. But what we're really dealing with as people is our lifetime here on earth is how we conduct ourselves in our lifetime and where we go from here. The concept of heaven: that's a good thing to try to imagine and I'm sure most of us think about that from time to time.

But back to the here and now, regarding churches, you believe that we if we do choose to join others in worship, we must be very careful. I honestly can't tell by what you wrote, exactly how we are expected to join others in worship without offending God unless we join your particular Assembly of God Church.

And to clarify just a little more, you believe that all one must do to be sure that one will go to heaven upon death, is to have faith in God because if we believe in God we will "have faith in Jesus" and that assures us a spot in heaven?

You're saying that we don't have to be baptised or go to church to get into heaven, right? And since we are all known by Jesus and God to be sinners, and he doesn't expect us to go through life without sinning, we don't have to worry that being a bad person or a sinner will keep us from getting into heaven just as long as we have faith in God?

Bjean, because there can never be a 'perfect' church, we should try to find a church where the people who attend and minister to us follow the teachings of God as laid out for us in the bible. The church I attend is far from perfect, but there are many there who do their best to follow God's written plan for us. If you don't have a 'guidebook' to follow you may get lost. That's why God has given us His laws in his book. All men have broken the laws of God by sinning and because God is Holy, man can not be in his presence with sin upon him. Just as with any law, when it is broken, the law demands justice. (punishment) The punishment for sin is death. Thus why ALL men die one day. God loves us and wants us in his presence in Heaven, so he provided a way to reconcile us back to Him. Imagine you broke some terrible crime and you can't even afford a lawyer.You are heavily fined. The fine is unreachable for you to pay. Then, someone you don't even know steps into the courtroom to pay the fine for you. The demands of the law are fully satisfied by the stranger. You are set free. That's what God did for us when the law utterly condemned us, Jesus paid the fine for us by taking our punishment that we deserved.

To answer your questions, man must first acknowledge that he is a sinner and in need of a Savior. (thus why God gave us his laws. For without the law, we would not know that we sin) After a man understands that he is a sinner and can't save himself, he has a decision to make. Jesus gave us this free gift of an eternity in heaven by 'paying the fine for us' you might say. He forces his gift on noone. If you would like the free gift, you must accept it. This is where faith comes in. You must believe in God. You must believe that he died so you could live eternally in Heaven. He paid your fine for all the wrongs you have ever done in your lfe. Past, present and future. You are no longer condemned. Now, if you have this faith in God, you will talk to him and ask Him to be your Savior and forgive you for sinning. What is the first thing we do with our spouse when we want to reconcile our relationship after we have hurt them with our actions? we say I'm sorry and ask for forgiveness. God ALWAYS forgives us. Once God has forgiven you, you are now in right relationship with him and when you die, you will live in Heaven.

[Kat817 19]

Patty the last line in your post is one that seriously causes me problem.

I can see if I steal a candy bar or even a bike as a kid, being forgiven, when forgiveness is ask for.

I can see the same forgiveness when I covet something belonging to my neighbor.

BUT a man rapes a child and kills them, and "finds" religion in prison, and asks for forgiveness? No way.

That child was not given a chance. I have issues with the whole idea that ALL will be forgiven ALWAYS just for the asking.

And yes I know you mean that you have to have seriously given your life over to the Lord, and ask for forgiveness. I'm thinking that might be pretty easy in prison.

Kat

[pattygreen 5]

"You're saying that we don't have to be baptised or go to church to get into heaven, right? And since we are all known by Jesus and God to be sinners, and he doesn't expect us to go through life without sinning, we don't have to worry that being a bad person or a sinner will keep us from getting into heaven just as long as we have faith in God?"

I do believe that we don't have to go to church or get baptised in order to get to heaven. And we don't have to be perfect. God knows that none of us are perfect and that we are going to sin, it is our human nature. I don't have all the answers, I don't understand a lot of the Bible. I think the Bible has been edited and revised so much from its original version that it is almost imposible to understand. I do believe that all we have to do is repent from our sins and ask Jesus to come into our hearts and save us. And we have to be truthful, and honest and really mean it and really believe it. While we don't have to be perfect, I do believe that if we have truely asked forgiveness and have faith that Jesus has saved us, then we will want to live right and do good. I don't think it is a requirement to get into heaven, but if Jesus is living inside your heart, you will not want to do bad. You will want to live the best you can. But that doesn't mean we won't slip from time to time. And God knows this.

Carrie, I agree with you wholeheartedly. There are NO conditions or "works' or 'deeds' that we must do except to believe on the name of Jesus to be able to go to Heaven. This includes going to church and getting baptized. After we accept Jesus as our Savior, he will put a desire within each of us to be obedient to him. We will still never be able to live without sinning, and God knows this. That's why I said once before that it is better to sin as a believer than an unbeliever. There is no difference in the sin, for God hates all sin. The difference is in the way he treats the sin of the believer and the unbeliever.

[pattygreen 5]

Patty the last line in your post is one that seriously causes me problem.

I can see if I steal a candy bar or even a bike as a kid, being forgiven, when forgiveness is ask for.

I can see the same forgiveness when I covet something belonging to my neighbor.

BUT a man rapes a child and kills them, and "finds" religion in prison, and asks for forgiveness? No way.

That child was not given a chance. I have issues with the whole idea that ALL will be forgiven ALWAYS just for the asking.

And yes I know you mean that you have to have seriously given your life over to the Lord, and ask for forgiveness. I'm thinking that might be pretty easy in prison.

Kat

Kat, I can understand how you would feel this way. It's hard to imagine that God could be that merciful. But He is. When Jesus gave his life on the cross, He did it for every man. All sin is wrong. Whether it is murder, rape, or lying. Jesus paid the price for the most vile of criminals. Some feel that what they have done in their lives, God could never forgive. But it's simply not true. The man who murders a child will pay for his crime in prison here on earth, but if he truly repents and asks forgiveness, God will pardon. On the other hand, some live exceptionally good lives and never accept Jesus as their Savior by admitting they are sinners and God says they will not enter into Heaven, because they denied their need for Jesus. (to console you about the child that was never given a chance, I can tell you that the scripture teaches that all children will enter into Heaven.)

[Kat817 19]

Years ago, when living in a large city in TX -- the little girl my DD played with in our apt. complex was killed. The man raped her, sodomized her, and tortured her for 2 days before killing her---which happened before he intended but she suffocated while he was trying to muffle her screams.

I sat in court and watched her family die a thousand deaths hearing the things about their innocent 5 year old child (who I have never EVER doubted or questioned whether she would go to heaven...that is a given) being hurt over, and over and over. And all the while, the man an adult son of a woman who lived in the apt. complex--he was staying in her place for the summer, as it was too humid for her there. Did she know (Mom) that he had a record of sexually abusing children? Yep! Did she care? Nope! But she begged the court and God for leniency. And last time I spoke with my friends, they had attended his parole hearing to listen to them all go on about how he had reformed his life, and he told them he found God.

I just hope you are wrong. I hope God is smarter than that!

I lived it on the outside, and cannot imagine the rage intesified with it being your own child. I know without a doubt that would turn me against religion to think that even God would forgive a monster like that.

That is too black and white......

Kat

[Kat817 19]

That made no sense, I lost my train of thought.....the man sat in court and smiled and when they mentioned anything about the child he licked his lips and leered. He was so unbelievably smug acting to the family....he even wiggled his eyebrows when things were said.

He deserves NO forgiveness, I don't care who he asks, who or what he believes now.....I know I am not supposed to judge, but in my opinion he bought his ticket to hell that day with no refunds!

Kat

[pattygreen 5]

That made no sense, I lost my train of thought.....the man sat in court and smiled and when they mentioned anything about the child he licked his lips and leered. He was so unbelievably smug acting to the family....he even wiggled his eyebrows when things were said.

He deserves NO forgiveness, I don't care who he asks, who or what he believes now.....I know I am not supposed to judge, but in my opinion he bought his ticket to hell that day with no refunds!

Kat

Dear kat, the reason for why man can't enter Heaven is because he is not without sin as God is, he is unclean and God is Holy. When Jesus shed his blood for us, he made us clean. If you believe this, then you can't deny that what he did for man wasn't enough to cleanse us from our sins. Man is soooo lost without God. The unbeliever is so blinded by sin that he doesn't even get it. Jesus said in scripture that if you do not forgive man for their sins, he will not forgive you for yours. I understand your disgust in the man who did this to that child. God was even more grieved by his actions than you were. But, he made a way for everyone to enter Heaven. There will be no sin there and God will not even remember your sin any longer. Jesus' blood washed it away from you. Now do you see why the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross for the Whole world was soooo great?

It is hard for man to forgive the injustices of others, we can't do it alone. God can help us though. If we pray and ask God to help us to forgive others, he can change our hearts. The power of God's Holy Spirit once we believe is great enough to make us new inside. I have heard of parents who have forgiven criminals for the most vilest things even before the prisoner finds God. They are usually believers in Christ and have come to understand man and his wicked heart and God's mercy. Think about this: When Jesus hang on the cross suffering immensely, he prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." If God the Father could forgive men for the vicious and torturous murder of his own own son, surely he can forgive anyone.

Edited January 31, 2009 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

Sorry for the long posts, I know it is much reading.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Seriously, wasa, you are the only one here who is making it an issue. Your game is tired and old and has been played much better by people who are more adept at it than you.

Forced? Okay, maybe a bad choice of words. But if I politely choose not to take the bait, you try to bait me further by saying I am running from the tough questions -- which you have said over and over ad nauseaum all day.

I guess when one battles others as much as you appear to, you can't fathom that not everybody takes this path.

This is a thread about prostitution. If I wanted to be sermonized to -- by either PattyGreen or yourself (and don't for a minute think that you are not sermonizing because you are, even if it is anti-God) -- I would be on the proper boards for that.

I'm not rising to your bait -- not because I don't have the answers, but because people such as yourself will only further distort what is being said and turn it into more argument. I choose not to debate religion with anybody. Been there, done that, to no good purpose. What do you want, to be convinced of something? Or are you just bored today? :thumbup:

You insist on making this all about your religion. I have asked ONE question about prayer. The rest have been in response to your own comments. When asked to defend your own claims then you make it out to be that I am preaching to you.

Not working.