Should prostitution be legal?

[Kat817 19]

Just as how we all interpret scripture or statement differently, because many words have multiple meanings.....so does the word judgement...

Both interpretations can be right. The difference I saw in the statements, was that BJean added her interpretation, never demeaning yours....you were not as polite. Her interpretation of the word was no more "wrong" than yours.

[Carrie_C 9]

You are missing my point patty. It is wrong to deny someone help, such as food and medical care, for any reason. It doesn't matter what sin they commit, prostitution, smoking, drinking, eating too much, it is still wrong to deny ANYONE help.

[Jesusislove 26]

No, prostitution should not be legal.

[Nanook 2]

We really need to stop feeding the evangelical laptroll:cursing:

[pattygreen 5]

Websters.........

judg·ment

judg·ment [jújmənt]

(plural judg·ments) or judge·ment [jújmənt] (plural judge·ments)

n

1. legal verdict: the decision arrived at and pronounced by a court of law 2. obligation resulting from verdict: an obligation, e.g. a debt, that arises as a result of a court's verdict, or a document setting out an obligation of this kind 3. decision of judge: the decision reached by one or more judges in a contest The judgment of the panel must be regarded as final.

4. decision on disputed matter: an opinion formed or a decision reached in the case of a disputed, controversial, or doubtful matter 5. discernment or good sense: the ability to form sound opinions and make sensible decisions or reliable guesses someone with shrewd commercial judgment

6. opinion: an opinion formed or given after consideration a snap judgment

7. estimate based on observation: an estimate of something such as speed or distance, made with the help of the eye or some other sense 8. judging of something: the judging of a case or a contest 9. divine punishment: a misfortune regarded as a divine punishment for folly or sin (archaic or humorous) The defeat was regarded as a judgment from God on the leader's pride.

10. act of making statement: in logic, the mental act of making or understanding a positive or negative proposition about something, e.g. in "a chihuahua is a dog" or "a lobster is not an insect"

[13th century. < Old French jugement < jugier "to judge" < Latin judicare (see judicature)]

Bjeans def. of judgement: What one superior person dicides is right or wrong activity of another.

My def. of judgement: A final sentence.

Now, look at all your definitions of the word that you posted from the dictionary and tell me which one does hers line up with? Mine lines up with #1. And she was more polite you say? She ridiculed me with her definition. Please!

[pattygreen 5]

You are missing my point patty. It is wrong to deny someone help, such as food and medical care, for any reason. It doesn't matter what sin they commit, prostitution, smoking, drinking, eating too much, it is still wrong to deny ANYONE help.

I have a great aunt who has been an alcoholic all her life. Until just recently (3 years ago) Know why she stopped drinking? Because after a lifetime of one family member or friend after another constantly 'Giving" to her, they stopped. We gave her money, we bought her food, we took her for job interviews, we put up with her verbal abuse, we paid her rent at times and I could go on and on about how we all enabled her to continue in her sin of abusing her body with alcohol. she had state ins. she couldn't hold a job for more than a week or two. Fourty years of that! Finally, we chose the tough love approach. No more enabling. No more money for food, no more help with rides, nothing. She had noone to turn to. Even her daughter and son gave up helping her. Simply because she wouldn't help herself. She was dependent on all of us. Once we stopped giving, she HAD to do it herself. She lost her apt, her job, and was even going to live on the street. We allowed it to happen FOR HER SAKE! Do you think we wanted to let our beloved aunt live on the street for that time? Absolutely not. But within one month, she walked into the Hospital and they committed her into rehab. She was hungry and cold. Now, She is in a wonderful community apts. with new friends she has made, hasn't had a drink for 3 years and has a job for the last 2 years. We put up with her drunken abuse for 40 YEARS! and in less than 6 months of disenabling her with our 'help', she started to take care of herself. When you 'help' people they tend to rely on that help and not 'do' for themselves. I am all for helping those who can't help themselves, or for helping people who are "trying" to better themselves and in the meantime need a hand. But I don't condone helping a prostitute who gets an STD because she CHOOSES to have sex with others for a living unless she leaves that profession for an honorable decent one. If she chooses to continue in that lifestyle, why should I have to pay for her medical care? She knew what the consequences of her career could bring. So, out of her own pocket is where her medical treatment should come from.

[BJean 16]

patty you judged the smoking woman just as sure as I'm sitting here. You made the judgement that she had enough money for food if she had enough money for cigarettes. You made the judgement that she had purchased those cigarettes with her own money. You made the judgement that she was not trying to quit smoking with every ounce of effort she had in her. It was you who made the call on all of those things in one fell swoop.

If you were donating the food, then your heart was not in the right place if you were passing judgement on those who came to you for help. Just as Jesus did not pass judgement on Mary Magdelen and just as Jesus came to the assistance of the woman in the Bible who committed adultry. (Those were not necessarily mutually exclusive acts.) The point was made in the Bible that it is not for you to judge others no matter what their sin because you too are a sinner.

So to set yourself up as a missionary of sorts, a do-gooder who says she wants to help someone who is hungry, but instead judges them to be someone who is not worthy enough to share your food, is not only someone who has cast the first stone, but you do so knowingly with malice aforethought. You know exactly what Jesus stood for - you can quote the Bible from memory - you KNOW BETTER, but you chose to cast the first stone.

The smoking woman should have walked away and been thankful that she hadn't accepted food that had such hateful stipulations attached. And how in the world do you know that God didn't send that woman to test you?

[pattygreen 5]

Did you just ignore my story of my aunt, bjean? How tough love can work, and how enableing people keeps them down.

If you want to call me 'Noticing',or 'knowing', that she smoked, judgement, then I judged her. I KNOW she chose cigarettes over food. If she didn't have anyone ENABLING her to smoke, by providing food for her, she would HAVE to give them up. For you can't live without the food, but you can live without the cigarettes. I know what it's like to smoke. I did it for 10 years and then quit. So can she.

Now, I donate food all the time, and I'm not there to pass it out. I'm sure no one is questioning anyones 'need' for it. And if I was handing it out, I wouldn't be questioning anyones need for it either, but the person receiving it KNOWS that if they gave up their SIN (whatever that may be, cigarettes, purchasing expensive jewelery over feeding your kids, whatever) that the food would be able to go to those who could 'really' use it. Which I am all for. Helping those who need it. I am not 'all for' helping those who 'continue' to live in sin. Like prostitutes. If i gave them assistance, and talked to them about getting a different job, if I took them for a job interview and gave them some decent clothes to wear to it, and showed them a way out, and then told them that if they changed their lifestyle that they could continue to get the programs help, and after 'helping' them they still refused to give up their sin, because the money was too good or whatever, I would stand on my rule. No more help. Enableing people doesn't work. There needs to be some consequences that they must endure for their wrongs. One of the consequences is no further help. Aren't you a parent? If you are then you know that. My sister gave her son $29. a week for allowance and school lunch. $10. was for 5 lunches. On Thurs. all the money was gone. He asked his mom for more money because he was hungry at school and had none. She said "You need to be a better steward of your money, and only spend 1/2 of what I give you each week on yourself." She made him go for 2 days without lunch. He never did that again! It stunk to be hungry at school. Tough love. It's how they learn.

Moral of the story is "if you do what's right, usually no problems"

Edited May 18, 2009 by pattygreen

[Carrie_C 9]

That's just wrong to make your kid go without lunch!

[HeatherO 7]

That's just wrong to make your kid go without lunch!

I wouldn't let my child starve . . . but I would certainly allow him to learn a lesson.

If he spent his lunch money on something else other than lunch, he could take a Peanut Butter and jelly sandwich for a day or two. I wouldn't give him more money.

There is value in learning to budget. My child is great at budgeting his money now and I think he will be better geared at going away to college in the next couple of years . . . and at life in general.

However, if I knew someone who is hungry, I would help them out no questions asked. Be it prostitute, smoker, etc. Again, that help might come in the form of actual food rather than money.

[BJean 16]

Did you ignore the stories in the Bible about Jesus, patty?

The ones where He didn't judge anyone, He accepted people, showed them love and thereby won their hearts.

You had a perfect opportunity to be a loving force in that woman's life and yet you chose to look down on her for being a smoker. You had an opportunity to win that woman over to God, and yet you chose to not represent what God's word says about how we should do unto others here on earth.

When you smoked for those 10 years, I wonder how you would have felt if you were hungry and someone in a church or on the street turned you away becaused they judged you to be unworthy.

Tough love is something you do to intervene in someone's life so that they will get the help they need. Tough love is talking to someone, offering your support, extending a hand in helping them beat whatever problem that they can't handle for themselves. You didn't "tough love" that woman, you turned her away.

There are smarter and better ways to teach a child and a smoker than making them go hungry. What you suggest as tough love is tough all right, but it has nothing to do with love.

[pattygreen 5]

Did you ignore the stories in the Bible about Jesus, patty?

The ones where He didn't judge anyone, He accepted people, showed them love and thereby won their hearts.

I don't ignore those stories. Jesus was very loving to people, but he was also outspoken about doing wrong in his eyes. Everybody loves to quote all the things about love and forgiveness and charity, and these things about God are great, but no one wants to quote all the things he says about sin and living right and abominations unto him.

This IS after all a thread on "should prostitution be legalized?" Most of the threads in the Rants and Raves area are about 'moral' and 'controversial' issues, so when I post here on a subject, I am defending my reasons for my opposition to these issues. You may see me as judgmental, but I see me as stating my reasons for why I do not approve. Others become offended, because I use God's word to back up what I believe. I do this because it's why I believe how I do.

You had a perfect opportunity to be a loving force in that woman's life and yet you chose to look down on her for being a smoker. You had an opportunity to win that woman over to God, and yet you chose to not represent what God's word says about how we should do unto others here on earth.

When you smoked for those 10 years, I wonder how you would have felt if you were hungry and someone in a church or on the street turned you away becaused they judged you to be unworthy.

Tough love is something you do to intervene in someone's life so that they will get the help they need. Tough love is talking to someone, offering your support, extending a hand in helping them beat whatever problem that they can't handle for themselves. You didn't "tough love" that woman, you turned her away.

No, tough love is doing something that your heart doesn't really want to do, but you do it anyway because it's what's best for the other person. You do it for 'their' sake.

There are smarter and better ways to teach a child and a smoker than making them go hungry. What you suggest as tough love is tough all right, but it has nothing to do with love.

FYI: I never turned her away from getting food. When I shared the story about her going to the food bank, I said "IF" I were running the food bank. I DON"T run the food bank. But "IF" I donated ALL the food myself and ran it myself, it would be for people who REALLY need the food, not someone who buys herself diamonds instead of feeding her children or for someone who blows her money on smokes instead of feeding herself. Those kind of people don't need my help. So, you're wrong. I DIDN'T have a perfect opportunity to be a loving force in her life. I also didn't look down on her for being a smoker. That's only what you think I did. I understand her sin. I was there. Like I said, I used to smoke. So, you don't know me at all. I stopped smoking because the cost of the habit was taking away from my other bills, and it was ruining my health. I HAD to make a choice. Do what's right or don't pay all my bills. I chose to do what's right. Once I did, my bill paying problem went away because that freed up $80. a month for me. Moral of the story again: Do what's right and usually no problems.

Edited May 18, 2009 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

That's just wrong to make your kid go without lunch!

He had Breakfast, he had his recess snack and he was able to eat when he got home. Then he had dinner and a snack before bed. Don't try to make this into an 'abuse' case by making a mountain out of a molehill. He didn't STARVE. He was taught a great lesson. And all it took was 2 days of going without lunch. He always saved his lunch money for lunch after that. We learn when we're not enabled. We do what's right. And guess what? Her doing that didn't mean she didn't LOVE her son! She did it because she DID love her son.

[Carrie_C 9]

Have you ever heard of addictions patty? Everyone has one, smoking, drugs, alcohol, shopping, gambling, eating. No one is perfect, and no one should be denied food or medical care just because you don't think they are worthy enough or live perfect enough to receive it.

[Kat817 19]

I like Patty's sister, ended up teaching my DD to budget money the same way. I tried the giving her $$$ and then making her take a lunch---she was stubborn as the day is long!!

She was not spending it on food, and being unable to budget, she was allowing herself to be taken advantage of by so called friends, who "forgot" their money, and always forgot to pay her back! So that was the rule. This is IT--------no more money period! If you want food, you pack it from home, you do not borrow, nor do you loan indiscriminately!

She learned, and she may have felt her tummy rumble a bit, but she was home before long, and there was never any issue of her eating here.

She graduated, and with the service ended up in Hawaii, it was a damned good thing she learned to budget, that place costs a fortune to live, especially on a military salary!!! And she learned all about not loaning her last dollar to anyone. Something she said her friends there moaned about all the time.

This is what I consider tough love. She was there, lessons were right there under her nose....the choice was hers. And even when she made the wrong one, and got hungry, Mom was there when she got home, ready to feed her!

Making the call on someone elses addictions, that you know nothing about is not tough love, that is judging them by YOUR standards, you know nothing of theirs.

I too smoked for 15 years----and was broke, many a time, that NEVER deterred me from smoking, it stressed me, and made me want to smoke even more! The love of my family and their concern over my health along with my own desire for my health, as well as that of the kids I was smoking around, is what pushed me to quit. Ultimatums seldom if ever work.....and saying you only get food IF you quit, is an ultimatum, even if it is in disguise!