What would happen if Barack Obama were Assasinated?

[gadgetlady 4]

im sorry but i can hold myself anylonger. first no one is saying Barrack Obama is the massiah and second im sorry but your understanding of Jesus's stance is Flawed. You are attempting to attach a man to obama that has had past sins. Yet william ayres is not the same man who committed those crimes yet you would want to discredit obama for knowing and working with him.

William Ayres HAS STATED that he SUPPORTS and AFFIRMS what he did and HE WISHES HE HAD DONE MORE! So yes, they are past sins, but yes, they are also sins that he doesn't believe were wrong.

My father is a retired Pastor and i have discussed this with him, as well as some of the ministers at my former church and we havent found any leg for you to stand on with this comparison or the logical diduction that would support your position.

I would love to speak with any of them about my "logical diduction [sic]" on this matter.

Jesus's platform if you will is Forgiveness, Patience, and Emplathy,and what part of knowing someones past and accepting them for who they are presently isnt following and trying to be more crist like. Furthermore it is a Christians Mission to To walk and be more like Christ. So how is it all of a sudden is it a bad thing that Barrack has learned to Forgive???:biggrin:

Jesus' platform has nothing to do with politics. It is not Obama's position to "forgive" Ayres his (unrepentant) sin, because Obama is not his Savior. He certainly has a right to befriend anyone he wants, and forgive him whatever he wants, even if that person hasn't asked for forgiveness or hasn't indicated that he believes he has done anything wrong. But to equate Jesus' position towards the woman about to be stoned with Obama's friendship with Ayres is ludicrous beyond belief.

Jesus was very clear about His Kingdom and about the Kingdom of Darkness; He talked about it all the time. Here's what He and His Disciples said about unrepentant sinners in regard to church affairs (Jesus didn't speak to political action, which is, really, the crux of my point -- but nevertheless): Matthew 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 1 Cor 5:13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you." 2 Thess 3:6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 1 Cor 5:11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

Once again, if you're going to go the Biblical route, I must refer you back to 1 Cor 15:33 Bad company corrupts good character. I don't see how anyone can deny that a man who bombed buildings and partook in other terrorist activities -- and has recently stated that he wished he had gone further -- is anything other than "bad company."

[gadgetlady 4]

The fact of the matter is he has become a pariah in alot of circles in the Black community because of his actions

ROFLOL! What, are you not capable of FORGIVING the man???? After all, that's what Jesus would do!!!

Oh, wait. Do actions now mean something?

Edited October 20, 2008 by gadgetlady

[TheWatcher 1]

ROFLOL! What, are you not capable of FORGIVING the man???? After all, that's what Jesus would do!!!

Oh, wait. Do actions mean something?

NO i forgive but i have nothing to forgive him for ... he has not wronged me... Still doesnt change the fact that hes a idiot.

[TheWatcher 1]

.

Once again, if you're going to go the Biblical route, I must refer you back to 1 Cor 15:33 Bad company corrupts good character. I don't see how anyone can deny that a man who bombed buildings and partook in other terrorist activities -- and has recently stated that he wished he had gone further -- is anything other than "bad company."

So you leave me to assume that the company you keep are spotless and that McCain or Palin's Company are spotless.

[gadgetlady 4]

NO i forgive but i have nothing to forgive him for ... he has not wronged me... Still doesnt change the fact that hes a idiot.

I think you're missing my point. My point was that you were calling Obama Christ-like for forgiving Ayres when 1) Ayres is unrepentant and doesn't believe what he did was wrong, and 2) Obama isn't in a position to forgive Ayres (because he's not Christ and Ayres didn't wrong him but rather the people he perpetrated terrorist acts against), yet in the very next post you're calling Jesse Jackson out on his actions (which, presumably, if you believe what you've said about Obama and Ayres above, you should be equally Christ-like to forgive).

Actions speak to a man's character. Who we call a friend speaks to our judgment about whether those actions are significant or not. If someone undertook sinful and/or illegal acts and doesn't see them as sinful and/or wrong, but rather praises them, and we befriend that person and/or consider them a mentor, it speaks to the position of our heart as well.

[gadgetlady 4]

So you leave me to assume that the company you keep are spotless and that McCain or Palin's Company are spotless.

Absolutely not. Nor am I spotless -- not by a long shot. But certainly there is somewhere you would draw the line as to who you "hang out" with? Repentance and heart-attitude having something to do with that line? Would you hang out with serial killers because, after all, everyone's a sinner? Would you hang out with racists because, after all, everyone's a sinner?

[TheWatcher 1]

I think you're missing my point. My point was that you were calling Obama Christ-like for forgiving Ayres when 1) Ayres is unrepentant and doesn't believe what he did was wrong, and 2) Obama isn't in a position to forgive Ayres (because he's not Christ and Ayres didn't wrong him but rather the people he perpetrated terrorist acts against), yet in the very next post you're calling Jesse Jackson out on his actions (which, presumably, if you believe what you've said about Obama and Ayres above, you should be equally Christ-like to forgive).

Actions speak to a man's character. Who we call a friend speaks to our judgment about whether those actions are significant or not. If someone undertook sinful and/or illegal acts and doesn't see them as sinful and/or wrong, but rather praises them, and we befriend that person and/or consider them a mentor, it speaks to the position of our heart as well.

again i am not saying Obama is Christ like.. i stated that to be christian is to try to be Christ like... in that case Barrack Obama is a Christion and The way he carries himself I can see that quality in him(Trying to Follow Christ to the best his ability) not saying hes like christ. So what if Ayres is unreppentant In my own family i have Shady character who have comitted crimes and other things in their life including to me personally... They havs not been cast out of my life to the point that at times i dont ever have to seework with them... Im arguing that the connaction has no relevance to the campaign ... the issues or the argurements...

[gadgetlady 4]

again i am not saying Obama is Christ like.. i stated that to be christian is to try to be Christ like... in that case Barrack Obama is a Christion and The way he carries himself I can see that quality in him(Trying to Follow Christ to the best his ability) not saying hes like christ.

Just to be clear, I believe we are using the same definition of "Christ-like". My use of the term "Christ-like" was not meant to imply that Obama believes himself to be Christ, but it was the same definition you use above -- trying to be as much like Christ as possible by living out the Christian faith as much as possible.

Im arguing that the connaction has no relevance to the campaign ... the issues or the argurements...

On the matter of Obama's associations, I know I will never convince you, but I remain unconvinced that you wouldn't be on the other side of this issue if McCain were hanging out with an unrepentant, former member of the KKK. Feel free to correct me if this is not the case, and if you truly wouldn't care if McCain had such associations. I certainly would.

[TheWatcher 1]

Absolutely not. Nor am I spotless -- not by a long shot. But certainly there is somewhere you would draw the line as to who you "hang out" with? Repentance and heart-attitude having something to do with that line? Would you hang out with serial killers because, after all, everyone's a sinner? Would you hang out with racists because, after all, everyone's a sinner?

If a man has done his time and has changed his ways then yes i would hang out with a killer. I for Forgive but never forget that under the right sercumstances this man could kill again. i wouldnty make him my buddy but i woudnt stop associating with them... i would have to cut off some close members of my family...

AP repeated McCain campaign's false claim that Obama "failed to tell the truth" about Ayers, ignored own reporting on Palin's "palling" claim

Summary: The AP uncritically repeated the McCain campaign's false assertion that Sen. Barack Obama "failed to tell the truth" about his association with William Ayers and uncritically reported Gov. Sarah Palin's claim that Obama "pall[ed] around with terrorists."

Despite numerous independent fact checks to the contrary, in an October 14

article, The Associated Press uncritically repeated the McCain campaign's false claim that Sen. Barack Obama "failed to tell the truth about his relationship with 1960s radical William Ayers." The suggestion that Obama wasn't truthful about his association with Ayers is false, and the attack echoes a McCain campaign ad that asserts: "When convenient, he worked with terrorist Bill Ayers. When discovered, he lied." However, independent fact checks of the McCain campaign's claim that Obama "lied" about his relationship with Ayers have found the claim to be false. In an October 10 "Fact Checker" article, The Washington Post asserted of the ad: "The McCain campaign is distorting the Obama-Ayers relationship, and exaggerating their closeness. There is no evidence that Obama has 'lied' about his dealings with Ayers." Additionally, a FactCheck.org article found "McCain's accusation that Obama 'lied' to be groundless."

Moreover, ignoring its own reporting, the AP uncritically reported that Gov. Sarah Palin "has accused Obama of 'palling around with terrorists,' meaning Ayers." However, on October 5, the AP reported that "there is no evidence that they [Obama and Ayers] ever palled around. And it's simply wrong to suggest that they were associated while Ayers was committing terrorist acts." As the AP noted on October 5, in accusing Obama of "pall[ing] around with terrorists," Palin cited a New York Times article that in the AP's words "detailed Obama's relationship with Ayers." But the Times article that Palin cited does not support her accusation; rather, as the AP noted in the October 5 article, the Times reported that "the two men do not appear to have been close."

From the AP article:

McCain and running mate Sarah Palin have said Obama failed to tell the truth about his relationship with 1960s radical William Ayers, and Palin has accused Obama of "palling around with terrorists," meaning Ayers.

Ayers was a founder of the Weather Underground, a radical, Vietnam War-era group that claimed responsibility for a series of bombings, including nonfatal explosions at the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol.

Ayers also hosted a reception for Obama in 1995, when Obama was beginning his political career. The two also have worked with the same nonprofit organizations in Chicago. McCain's campaign has tried to exploit those ties, even while saying it disagreed with Frederick.

[gadgetlady 4]

If a man has done his time and has changed his ways then yes i would hang out with a killer.

Ayres has not changed his ways. That's the pivotal issue here.

As to the AP / Times / reporting issue you addressed, it appears you're now changing your argument? The issue is no longer whether Obama should have or did forgive him, but now it's that Obama's not as close with him as some reports have indicated? Interesting. I don't think you launch your bid for the highest political position in the free world from the living room of someone you don't know well. There are plenty of other "associations" as well -- follow the money.

[gadgetlady 4]

Talk about racism, or reverse-racism as it were:

In case you missed this week's issue of the Army Times, here are the results of their poll of military personnel re the election (in %).

McCain Obama

Overall 68 23

Army 68 23

Navy 69 24

Air Force 67 24

Marines 75 18

Retirees 72 20

White Non-Hispanic 76 17

Hispanic 63 27

Black/African-American 12 79

Enlisted 67 24

Officers 70 22

Edited October 20, 2008 by gadgetlady
trying to make the table clearer, but unsuccessful

[TheWatcher 1]

Ayres has not changed his ways. That's the pivotal issue here.

As to the AP / Times / reporting issue you addressed, it appears you're now changing your argument? The issue is no longer whether Obama should have or did forgive him, but now it's that Obama's not as close with him as some reports have indicated? Interesting. I don't think you launch your bid for the highest political position in the free world from the living room of someone you don't know well. There are plenty of other "associations" as well -- follow the money.

Wrong

he has not repented. ... when was the last time be blew something up?

[gadgetlady 4]

Wrong

he has not repented. ... when was the last time be blew something up?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME! The man has never publicly repented; instead, he has recently said HE WISHED HE HAD DONE MORE! I'm taking the man at his word. Since you seem to like him so much, why aren't you?

[gadgetlady 4]

Furthermore, Ayres' position on issues currently is predominantly radical Marxist. Based on the money trail, book endorsements and even shared offices, I have to conclude that Obama holds the same views.

[TheWatcher 1]

Furthermore, Ayres' position on issues currently is predominantly radical Marxist. Based on the money trail, book endorsements and even shared offices, I have to conclude that Obama holds the same views.

You could just read his book ... follow his actions and become informed and look for information on his policies instead of assuming what you say you concluded. Truth is there is nothing that ties Ayers ideology to Barrack Obama's in all actuality there’s a witch hunt going on to try in bring Obama down and it’s not working... The reason they can’t make the Ayers situation stick is because there is no validity there. And now the only republican I ever wanted to vote for has endorsed Obama for many of the same reasons. (Colin Powel)

Have you read The Blueprint for Change on Obamas website…? That Document lays out Obamas stand it’s all there you say you conclude that Obamas vies are the same as Ayers then I challenge you to read his own stance and see if what you concluded by judging someone that the man knows instead of what he believes.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

Edited October 20, 2008 by TheWatcher