What would happen if Barack Obama were Assasinated?

[BJean 16]

Green, thanks! I am glad that someone understands my point.

[gadgetlady 4]

ATF: Plot to kill Obama is foiled - Decision '08 - MSNBC.com. Dispicable.

[BethFromVA 5]

Hey Beth I like your style too! Your logic on the other hand, not so much.

You're the one who is saying that both sides are bad. I think that there are bad people on both sides, just like there are bad government policies. But just because there are some bad government policies does not make all government policies bad.

I would not ever say that there aren't bad people who took advantage of the lending institutions' tricky loans, but I am also not blaming JUST the homeowners in this collapse of the housing market, as some people are.

All too often the Republicans have used the same logic you seem to be using to get them out of taking responsibility for the things that they actually did do that has hurt middle America. They also like to use the old welfare argument to make people think that paying taxes is wrong. In fact, Joe the Plumber has bought into that rehtoric to such an extent, that he has refused to pay his taxes. There's a whole movement out there of people who think it is righteous to not pay their taxes.

But poor Joe doesn't seem to get it that he wouldn't have a country like this if people didn't pay to get things done. He wouldn't have a public library, the military to shock and awe Iraq, the police to take care of killers and robbers and law breakers of all kinds, he wouldn't be able to depend on the fire department to save his home if it caught on fire.

The welfare you talk about (which we all hate) is a very, very small portion of the tax burden. And besides, there are things in place to keep people from just living on welfare all their lives - or have you done your homework? Yes I know there is corruption in the welfare system and that there are welfare cheats milking the system. But that doesn't account for the majority of people who get assistance when they are in dire straits.

I don't like the idea of paying for people to sit home and watch Jerry Springer on their widescreen TVs either. So I'm making my voice heard through letters to my Congressmen (and woman). Are you doing that? Because they actually do pay attention to what they hear from their constituents. They may not listen as closely to them as they do to the lobbyists, but trust me, they know that our votes control their job. Most of us have just been too lazy, sitting around not doing anything, or just bellyaching about what we think is wrong with the government.

I hope that this race has energized and informed people to such an extent that from now on we will all stop feeling like such victims of our government and politicians and start all being activists for a better America!

With all due respect, I recognize a lot more than you give me credit for, BJean.

Just so I can be clear, I blame ALL sides, along with the greedy lenders AND greedy buyers, in this home loan scandal. ALL sides. Not the dems only, not the repubs only, not the lenders only, not the buyers only. ALL of them came together in a perfect storm that has nearly brought our country to collapse... and still may. Too many people are hung up on only focusing on one group or another. I am saying they ALL created this.

And yes, I am saying both sides are bad. They no longer listen to us. Oh, they may here and there, but overall, they believe that we can be ignored. What about the behind-doors attempt to give amnesty to tens of millions of illegals -- without voter input OR knowledge. Until it got leaked out, that is. Three times they tried to pass this, and three times the uproar was so great as to bring down the switchboards in DC. And yes, I WAS involved in campaigning against this blatant disregard for the American people's will on that one, as I have been involved in many other issues. You can't seriously believe a big mouth such as myself would sit on my hands and not do something. :thumbup:

I was not aware that "Joe" was engineering a "pay no taxes" campaign, or simply showing his displeasure by not paying his. But frankly, I don't disagree with him. Why keep forking it over just to be abused by these idiots?? I would rather bring everything to a standstill in order to get them to LISTEN to us than keep forking over good money after bad. Funny, but when Americans are tightening the belt and doing without, the government never seems to. Why is that?

I've done my letter campaigns the same that you have. What has it gotten us? Are the illegals gone? Are people not abusing the system? Are they no longer passing stupid stuff that the people are against? If they are doing the right thing, I sure as heck don't see it.

As a prime example, are you aware of the PORK in that $700 billion bailout?? On a cursory skim of it, I came up with $1 BILLION of CRAP that is not about stimulating our economy -- it is ALL about greedy politicians taking care of themselves. Though I shouldn't be surprised that this is the fact, we are BLEEDING right now! They passed this bullcrap bill without a vote AND when most Americans were against it! All I keep seeing is if you are greedy or overextend yourself, you get blessed with bailouts, bankruptcies, and any other number of "get out of jail free" cards. Those of us who pay our bills get what? We get to pay for all the dolts who overextended themselves! YAY US! Why is this?

When more than 50 percent of my pay goes to taxes, I say enough is enough. They are NOT good shepherds of MY money. They are not being diligent and careful and doing away with pork spending, paying for illegals, getting scammed through FEMA and welfare... I could go on. I don't blame Joe, and I wish enough people would stand up and say, DAMNIT, I'm not going to take this anymore!!

The government has a responsibility to us that they have shirked for too long. It's treasonous is what it is. Lobbyists and special interest groups run this country, not us. We are simply a nuisance, but a necessary nuisance because we pay the bills. However, if we get Obama, you can rest assured things will change. They already treat us as if what we make is theirs and they grace us with what they will give us. No doubt it will be the norm if he's in office.

This race HAS energized me and others to learn the truth. It is discouraging, however, when you have people who are just caught up in a dolt with a messiah complex. Not a helluva lot I can do if this guy gets into power. Then again, McCain isn't much better... it just may take longer to finally go over the deep end. Not by much, though...

Like I said, I have cashed in on my rose-colored glasses some time ago. I used to be a very America-loving individual. And while I still love the America my grandfathers fought and died for, today's America is just a Frankenstein of what once was. I simply detest what these power-hungry losers have done to it.

[BJean 16]

Congratulations on getting your LB date!!

Let me get this straight. Who do you blame for all of the illegal aliens in this country?

And you believe that if we boycotted one day, all stopped paying our taxes, it would do exactly what to this country?

Neither side listens to us because we aren't saying anything to them. We're crabbing to ourselves and our friends and all agree that pork barrel spending has to go. We agree that our laws need to be enforced at our borders. We resent the immigration laws that have been ignored. We resent the fact that our government does actually encourage (for years and years) illegals to come into this country and take advantage of the system we have set up to take care of them.

We resent the fact that our public school system has gone so far astray from the basics and that nothing serious has been done to improve them in such a very long time. We resent that we and our children have such enormous student loans by the time we graduate from college there's no hope of paying them off in a reasonable length of time.

Some of us have decided that we don't like the way our tax dollars are being spent in Washington. But we continue to elect the same leaders year after year. We duck our heads and pretend that voter fraud and manipulation of votes hasn't really happened and so we don't rise up and demand an accounting of why we can't have an honest election in this country.

And you think the answer is to refuse to pay your taxes? And you want to elect someone who assures you that he is going to not only reward the men at the top of the heap in this country like his predecessor did, but he wants to give them even more because what? rewarding corporations has worked so well for us?

You are so overtaxed now, you believe that under John McCain he's going to make it all better for you? You BELIEVE that?

McCain says Senator Obama doesn't account for his proposed new plans for this country. That is an outright lie. Obama has done his homework. He already knows where he needs to cut and he isn't proposing trillions of new dollars spent on new programs. That's what McCain is planning. Just like George Bush has done to us. John McCain has not revealed a plan - he's only told us he's going to take a red pencil to go line by line and cut out the waste. Why should we trust him to do that?

McCain and the Republicans preach no new taxes - or even a tax break. But that is not what they do. Read your history book. Don't take my word for it. Check out the economies of the Republican dominated White Houses and Congress. Gasoline always goes up. Jobs go away. Illegals come in by the thousands. I've lived through it.

You way solves nothing. Taking a chance on a man who is intelligent, honest and has a well-defined plan to improve our country is what we should be thinking about. His very real plan to start greening up America is a mighty ambitious plan that fills us with hope for a better future. More jobs, cleaner air, less dependence on foreign oil.

McCain wants to drill more oil wells - and in the Alaskan Wilderness first and foremost - so that the 600,000 or so citizens of Alaska can get rich (and by the way, they do not want to share it with the other states). He wants to go about using more coal. He says he wants alternative energy, and his mantra is the same mantra that the big oil companies advertise on TV - but they do not spell out any real plan to git 'er done. I do not trust them for one minute. They have proven who they are and where their values lie. Their values are not all about improving this country. They are all about greed and lining their pockets that are already overflowing with Americans tax dollars and our money from the gas pumps.

Have you bothered to notice that McCain spends his time talking about what is wrong with Obama and hardly ever says anything definitive about what he can do to improve America. All of his plans are veiled with talk about how he's gonna look out for Joe the Plumber. Well my friend, I'm not buying that Republican rehtoric any longer. I'm taking a chance on the Democrats. This year, they are worthy.

[gadgetlady 4]

Well my friend, I'm not buying that Republican rehtoric any longer. I'm taking a chance on the Democrats.

Have you ever voted Republican? Because I had the impression that you were a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat and didn't ever "buy" "Republican rhetoric".

[BethFromVA 5]

Crap, I tried, to reply to this earlier and either timed out or the server was having issues.

BJean, thanks for the gratz on the date. It seems like it's going to take 3 1/2 years instead of 3 1/2 weeks to get here.

Secondly, in case I haven't made myself clear enough, my dislike of Barack and/or the democrat policies they hold so dear does not automatically mean that I am walking lock step behind McCain. IF I vote for him, I can guarantee you that I will be holding my nose the whole way.

For some reason it seems as if when somebody is anti Obama, they are somehow embracing McCain. I have consistently said I dislike BOTH of them. I just happen to despise Obama more.

It's sad that you sound so anti-corporation, since THEY and not the government are what make things happen. Sure, there have been some greedy people out there, but I am of the belief that if you can build a better mouse trap, you should be able to and make as much money as that product will allow. You make it sound as if making good money is evil. I can assure you it is not. Everybody has the same ability to do so if they can market something worthwhile enough to warrant it.

If you start punishing corporations for making money, what do you think will happen? Oh, you may feel better for a minute or two -- until you or your spouse or your loved ones or your neighbors get laid off because these companies have to make up for the losses somewhere. And I can assure you, it WILL happen. THAT will trickle down, and I'll bet my last dollar on it.

Socialism never has and never will work. Obama wants to take what I make and give it to people who don't deserve it. Why should I work my ass off to give it to ANYbody besides my family?? I'm entitled to be greedy with my hard-earned money, and I will not be shamed into believing that is evil. Stealing from one group to give to another is the utmost in evil, and this man wants to do just that. I don't care what bill of goods he's selling you now or saying... you have to follow the trail. You have to pay attention to what he's DONE, not what he's SAYING now. You have to pay attention to the people he associates with because that will tell you about the man. You have to take heed and learn what he's about. There is nothing he's selling that I'm buying.

But again, don't be mistaken into believing that I believe that we're talking about black hat and white hat guys here. They're all dark gray as far as I'm concerned, with some blacker than others. Detesting Obama does not mean I love McCain, and that's where I think you have me confused.

As for drilling in Alaska, we need it. We need to not be beholden to terrorist countries, don't we? What is wrong with American independence, no matter who it makes rich?? And where did you get this "they don't want to share it with the rest of us"? The Obama website? Even if that's true, the value comes in 1) lower gas prices, and 2) not funding terrorist organizations. That to me is worth giving a few caribou a tummy ache.

You asked me: You are so overtaxed now, you believe that under John McCain he's going to make it all better for you? You BELIEVE that?

I could ask the very same thing. Obama is THE single most liberal pol to come down the pikes. You believe that under Barack Obama he's going to make it better for you? You BELIEVE that? He is a flaming socialist!! Liberals are KNOWN for their tax-and-spend policies, even though it has been proven time and again that that policy NEVER stimulates the economy. EVER.

Now, I'm not saying the republicans are better these days. They have been feeding at the trough of liberal policymakers way too long to the point that the lines are a bit too blurred for me. But the liberals NEVER cut taxes. Beyond that, many of those guys are THE most morally bereft individuals ever to walk this earth. Republicans do bad, other republicans are calling for them to step down. Liberals do bad, and everybody asks what the hell the problem is and then reelect the guy!!

There isn't a democratic atom in my body. However, the republicans of today do not represent me. I'm glad you're so gung ho for the Redistributor, but sadly I have nobody who represents me.

You ask if I think withholding tax dollars from them is the right thing to do. We as a people not only have a right, we have a DUTY to force the government to do right by us. A government out of control is a government needing to have an armed uprising against them to oust them and give control back to the people. This very thing was even stated by our founding fathers. I believe we the people have a duty to withhold our money because only then might they listen to us. As it is, they are pimps for special interest groups and lobbyists, not "WE THE PEOPLE." If that's what it takes to make them listen, then I am all for it, yes.

Calling them and writing them barely works. I have done both until I'm blue in the face, and I know many more who have done the same. To say we are not doing enough to make them listen to us is inherently dishonest. They are like bulls in a china shop with their own ideas. They haven't represented "WE THE PEOPLE" for way too long now.

And finally, you were very respectful to me, and I hope I came across with the same respect to you. I have to rein myself in on this topic because these people just piss me off so much. I can see how revolutionaries were created, because I am about thisclose to joining just such a group.

Edited October 29, 2008 by BethFromVA
misspelled "rein" :(

[BJean 16]

gadget, have you ever voted Democratic? I have voted Republican, although it's really none of your business for whom I have voted or for which party affiliation I usually support.

Beth what you don't seem to understand about Senator Obama's plan is that he doesn't want to punish corporations - he only wants them to pay their fair share. Under the Republicans they have enjoyed huge tax breaks and McCain wants to give them even more. That's because he says he believes that if the corporations have to pay more (even just their fair share) that it will mean fewer jobs for Americans. In the past 8 years at the very least, that has not been the way it has worked. So why should we allow McCain to continue the very thing that has brought our country to this incredibly low point in our history.

Did McCain have any great plan to help fix this financial mess? When he blathered on about needing to get back to Washington so he could help solve the problem, do you think that he came up with anything to solve it? During the meeting he rushed back for, he sat through the entire meeting without saying anything. Senator Obama asked all the questions and voiced his concerns. When it was coming to an end and they asked McCain if he had any questions or input, he said he didn't. So big deal. What was all that about?

I hear what you're saying about your fears about Senator Obama. They are the same fears that the Republicans have peddled in every election in recent history. This time that have really gone out on a limb and called the opposition "socialists" which has, I will admit, put the fear in a good number of people. Just like the fear mongering they've done about Obama's association with terrorists. But they don't just stop at that. They have done everything they can think of to smear Senator Obama. It has been one dirty, filthy, embarrassing campaign designed to personally assult a man who has done so many great things in his career. The other thing that infuriates me is that they not only are wrong about Obama's plans for unifying this country, they have done everything in their power to incite anger and hate and I really, really can't forgive them for that.

You seem like a perfectly reasonable and intelligent person. That should tell us something about this election. It has divided this country and it is effectively turning us against each other. We can't let them do that to us. We have to learn how to work together. We can't allow the Democrats penalize anybody for making a living. And we can't allow the Republicans to continue to pad the pockets of the filthy rich in this country at the expense of middle class Americans which means, losing their jobs and winding up paying an unfair share of the taxes that are needed to run this country.

Obviously I don't have the answers either. But I know that you will vote for the people you believe are the lesser of evils. I have the confidence in knowing that when I vote for Senator Obama that I will be voting for someone I actually admire and respect and feel will be able to make this country as strong as it once was.

[gadgetlady 4]

gadget, have you ever voted Democratic? I have voted Republican, although it's really none of your business for whom I have voted or for which party affiliation I usually support.

Not that I recall. I tend to be to the right of Republicans, so it's unlikely.

I'm surprised that you've voted Republican, though. I thought you worked for a Democrat politician (although I might be wrong -- my memory isn't what it used to be and I don't have the energy to go back and search through posts) and, from your position on the issues, it seemed like you aligned pretty strongly towards the left side of the Democrat party. So when you said you're not buying "Republican rhetoric" any longer (making it seem like you had once been a Republican but had switched over to the Democrat party because Obama had such a good take on the issues), it surprised me. I can't imagine you ever supported Bush or, going back further, Reagan, but then again maybe you have.

[BethFromVA 5]

I hear what you're saying about your fears about Senator Obama. They are the same fears that the Republicans have peddled in every election in recent history. This time that have really gone out on a limb and called the opposition "socialists" which has, I will admit, put the fear in a good number of people. Just like the fear mongering they've done about Obama's association with terrorists. But they don't just stop at that. They have done everything they can think of to smear Senator Obama. It has been one dirty, filthy, embarrassing campaign designed to personally assult a man who has done so many great things in his career. The other thing that infuriates me is that they not only are wrong about Obama's plans for unifying this country, they have done everything in their power to incite anger and hate and I really, really can't forgive them for that.

BJean, how on earth can you blame the republicans for stating what Obama himself has said or done or who he has chosen to affiliate himself with?? It's not as if people are making stuff up! He has SAID he feels we need to "spread the wealth." That is what socialists do. He has chosen to hang with people who hate this country, who have tried to harm it, and who were responsible for bombing the Pentagon. HE has done this. It doesn't take republican fear mongering to point out the obvious!

The leftist party has become a party of "are you gonna believe me or your lyin' eyes, baby?" The WORDS are there. The PROOF is there. HIS words, spoken by him. HIS affiliations, chosen by him. How you can turn this into a republican spin and say so with a straight face just boggles the mind. It proves to me that no matter what some people are shown and what proof there is, they have proven that they refuse to see the truth. Not that they can't see it, but that they choose to gloss over it. Which is sad, because like you said about me, you sound like a reasonably intelligent individual.

[TheGh0st 9]

Congratulations on getting your LB date!!

...

And you believe that if we boycotted one day, all stopped paying our taxes, it would do exactly what to this country?

Neither side listens to us because we aren't saying anything to them. We're crabbing to ourselves and our friends and all agree that pork barrel spending has to go.

....

I know this isn't my conversation but I couldn't resist chiming in here.

I am NOT saying that I advocate not paying our taxes here in the US. However, I was living in the UK back in the late 80's early 90's when they repealed property taxes and replaced them with a poll tax. I was there while at university but was a US citizen (so I may be slightly wrong on some of the specific details due to my age and difference in nationality) but even as a US citizen I was still required to pay just for living there and being over 18 years old. The majority of the country HATED this new taxing system once it was implemented and what did they/we do to protest it? We didn't pay it! There were even some politicians refusing to pay it.

From what I understand the funds from this Poll Tax were to be used for infrastructure, things like street lights and road maintenance, schools etc. And what happened when so many refused to pay? Did the government come to a screeching halt. Did the Street lights go dark or the roads fall into disrepair? No, instead the govenment ultimately caved to the will of the people and the poll tax was abandoned.

So who knows, they always say "money talks" so maybe if the one thing we all seem to agree on is that the government is overspending our tax dollars. (Even if we can't agree on which programs are the culprits) Maybe, just Maybe the idea of us all banding together and refusing to pay our taxes until the system is overhauled is not quite as hair-brained as an idea as it sounds, even to me.

It would sure be a way to hit them where it hurts, I think that if any one large group banded together to do this as a united group it sure would get the govenments attention better than street protests or rallys. Whether it was liberals protesting the war spending or conservatives protesting the immigration & welfare system. (I just tried to pick two for example)

Mind you in the case of the poll tax the worst they supposedly could do was have an auction of your possesions though some items such as your home was excluded from the list of items the government could sell. I don't believe jail was an option like it is here in the US for tax evasion. Though I've always been just a bit nervous everytime I re-enter the UK that they will find my name on some list and refuse me entry for having not paid my poll tax bill back when I was at University.

Edited October 29, 2008 by TheGh0st
spelling error ("could sale" vs "could sell")

[BJean 16]

Well gadget that was so civil, it makes me want to respond to you.

I did work for a Democratic legislator and I did work for the Democratic Attorney General in Virginia. Several assistants to the General openly voted Republican, without fear of remonstrance from anyone.

I am married to a Republican whose family is staunch Republican and who are also as Catholic as people can be. I have great respect for them and I wouldn't have married my husband or become a member of that family if I didn't love them and want to listen to them and understand their thinking on both religious and political issues.

I grew up in the Methodist Church. Went to Sunday school every Sunday, went to Church Camp in the summers and taught Sunday School when I was older. Later I learned to love the doctrine of the Disciples of Christ Church and became very involved in Church activites and taught at their Church camp and sang in the Choir.

When I was 18, I was swept off my feet by a Southern Baptist young man, fell in love with him and we got married after going through counseling by the pastor, attending Church twice weekly and ultimately I was baptized in the Baptist Church. We figured out pretty quickly that we were too young and should never have made such a big step when we really didn't understand what we each needed from a marriage, a spouse or even life. We divorced after 4 years. Later btw, the Catholic Tribunal conducted a study and that marriage was annulled in the Catholic Church.

My father was a Democrat and he and my mother were very active in local and state politics. Both wonderful, socially conscious people, whom I adored and respected and whom I miss every day.

I have studied several other faiths in depth, have read the Bible and although I am certainly no religious expert, I do have a pretty good grasp of what it's all about. I know that Jesus believed in helping the less fortunate. I know that he disliked and did not respect the wealthy who took advantage of the weak. I know that he practiced tolerance and peace and love.

When my father-in-law, a life-long staunch Republican and supporter of the Pope and the Catholic Church, spoke out a couple of years ago against the policies of George W. Bush, I knew I wasn't just being a stubborn Democrat by believing the same thing. Well as further proof, even George W.'s parents don't support all of his decisions. (Yes, I did vote for Herbert Walker - in fact, I have good friends who are close to the elder Bush's.)

You say you lean to the right of the Republcans. I believe that the extreme right of the Republican party has gone off the deep end. They do not seem to practice the teachings of the Lord and yet they claim to be good patriotic Christians. Well I'm not accusing you of having hate in your heart by any means, but I do believe that some of the most extreme right wing in this country would like nothing better than to assassinate a man like Senator Obama. Which is what this thread is about.

I believe that Senator Obama is a man who is capable of following in the footsteps of Christ's teachings far better than John McCain or Sarah Palin. They are spouting hateful, devisive rehtoric that is detrimental to the health of our country. They support the money changers and they lie to the weak. They want to continue the war and they accuse Senator Obama of not being supportive of the troops. That is a terrible lie, among all their other lies, and although I said above that I cannot forgive them, that is not really true. If they were to recant their lies, admit the sins they have perpetrated on the American public, I could certainly forgive them. However they show no signs of ever standing up for anything good and pure.

That's not my whole story, just part of it. Care to ask anymore questions?

[BJean 16]

So Beth, if you think that Senator Obama's service on a Republican appointed board in Chicago, with Bill Ayers, constitutes him hanging with terrorists (or that because Bill Ayers held a gathering at his house for young Harvard Graduate - tops of his class - to show his support for a promising public servant constitutes hanging with terrorists) then I wonder what you think of John McCain hanging with G. Gordon Liddy - a convicted felon, a Watergate burgler and a mastermind of illegal dirty tricks in the Nixon administration?

McCain has spent more time and accepted more money from G. Gordon Liddy than has been disclosed. I have no doubt that Ollie North supports McCain all the way and probably is in love with Sarah Palin. Although I do not listen to anything Ollie North has to say since I was present when he was on the Phil Donahue show when he tried to unsuccessfully explain his participation in the Iran Contra affair.

[TheGh0st 9]

But back to the topic PLEASE

I only just stumbled onto this thread but am actually the one that sent the original PM's that prompted him to start this thread. After reading through all the back posts the conversation has definitely been lively and interesting. Well worth the read but it has gone far off topic.

The concerns Watcher and I were discussing were about what would happen to this nation if Obama was to be assasinated. The idea of an assasination isn't new, most if not all presidents have had serious threats or attempts on their lives. But I am very worried that there are too many nut jobs out there like the ones in Denver and Tennesee are just going to keep coming at him until one succeeds. Then what will happen to our nation?

We have become so divided and partisan outside of Washington that I've seen people come to the brink of fist fights at work talking about politics. Heck my DH and his brother got so heated that they had to have their mother pull them apart. Mind you they are both over 40, one with a Masters degree and the other with a PHD.

I live in an inner-city neighborhood in Kansas City and worry greatly over what may happen if he were to be assasinated.

Back in 92 the news of the police charged with assaulting Rodney King in LA being aquitted triggered Riots in LA, and elsewhere. According to Wikipedia "By the time the police, the US Army, the Marines and the National Guard restored order, the casualties included 53 deaths, 2,383 injuries, more than 7,000 fires, damages to 3,100 businesses, and nearly $1 billion in financial losses." and that was just just the damage in LA.

If this is how we as Americans are capable of reacting to a verdict in a trial over police brutality then how much worse can we expect the nation to react to the assasination of our president?

[TheGh0st 9]

Without trying to sound too paranoid. I've even wondered if it wouldn't be a good idea to keep a small overnight bag packed in the car at all times in case we decide it's best to get ourselves and our 5 year old son out of town fast.

And I keep thinking I ought to figure out just where I put the ammo and clip to the semi-auto rifle my dad gave me a few years back. I seperated the clips, ammo and gun from each other after my son was born for safety reasons but have since forgotton where the ammo went.

OK now its official. I've gone round the bend. But still it proves my point. If a simple housewife/bookkeeper is considering arming herself what are the rest of the masses going to do?

There doesn't seem to be any good way out of this. If he gets assasinated we are in deep deep *crud* and if he loses it won't be pretty eigther as so many will cry foul in the belief there is no way he could have lost with out it being rigged and we could still end up with Rodney King style riots.

[BethFromVA 5]

BJean, I really don't know how I can make it any more clear to you that I am not enamored of McCain like you are the socialist, America-hating terrorist lover. I keep saying it, but you don't seem to be hearing me.