WHY are people voting for McCain?

[gadgetlady 4]

Anyone here know about the early American experiment in socialism? While Thanksgiving is a month away, the lesson is timeless.

Freedomwriter.com :: Special Interest - HISTORY LESSON ON THANKSGIVING

HISTORY LESSON ON THANKSGIVING

Matthew A. Givens

Happy Thanksgiving!

Thanksgiving is approaching once again, and with it come visions of children's plays with Indians and Pilgrims, complete with little Pilgrim hats made of construction paper. The story told in these plays and learned by public school students at every grade level is a simple one.

The Pilgrims arrived at Plymouth Rock late in 1620. The first winter was harsh, but the colonists worked hard and applied themselves industriously to their own survival. They had help from the local Indian tribes, who helped them learn how to survive. The result was a plentiful harvest in fall 1621, not to mention the first celebration of Thanksgiving.

It's a wonderful story. There's only one problem with it: It isn't true. It contains elements of truth. For example, the first winter was harsh, and the local Indian tribes did help the colonists learn how to survive, what to plant and how to prepare the food. But the 1621 harvest was not bountiful. In fact, famine haunted the fledgling colony.

When the colonists first landed, they signed something called the Mayflower Compact. Most of us have heard this document praised as an early social contract helping different people to live together. What most of us never learned was that it was also an experiment in socialism.

The Mayflower Compact required that "all profits and benefits that are got by trade, working, fishing or any other means" were placed in the common stock of the colony. Further, it required that "all such persons as are of this colony are to have their meat, drink, apparel and all provisions out of this common stock." People were required to put into the common stock everything they could, and take out only what they needed.

William Bradford, governor of the colony at the time, wrote History of Plymouth Plantation. In it, he wrote that "young men that are most able and fit for labor and service" complained about being forced to "spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children." Since "the strong, or man of parts, had no more division of victuals and clothes than he that was weak," the strong men simply refused to work, and the amount of food produced was never adequate.

In fact, the colony went hungry for years as strong men refused to work hard, and theft of crops still in the ground ran rampant. Bradford wrote that the colony was riddled with "corruption and discontent." The crops were small because "much was stolen both by night and day, before it became scarce eatable."

The harvests of 1621 and 1622 were adequate enough so that "all had their hungry bellies filled," but that did not last. Deaths from malnutrition continued into the next year.

But in 1623, something changed. Bradford reported, "Instead of famine now God gave them plenty, and the face of things was changed to the rejoicing of the hearts of many, for which they blessed God." By 1624, the colony was producing so much food that it began exporting corn.

What caused this change?

After the poor harvest of 1622, the colony brainstormed for a way to raise more corn and obtain a better crop. The solution, like the Thanksgiving story told today, was simple. In 1623, Bradford "gave each household a parcel of land and told them they could keep what they produced, or trade it away as they saw fit."

The socialistic experiment that had failed them was abandoned and replaced with capitalism. That turned the colonists away from failure and forward into success and growth. And this move away from socialism, along with the resulting prosperity, is what we truly Celebrate today. It is easy to see why I call Thanksgiving the first Libertarian holiday.

Thanksgiving, far from being the simple and uninspiring story of a group of people learning how to farm, is actually a celebration of what has made America itself great. It is the story of people working together by working for themselves first, and in so doing, improving the standard of living for everyone. These are the American ideas we hold dear.

As you sit down to your table laden with turkey, dressing and pumpkin pie, remember the true story of Thanksgiving, and what it means to all.

[pattygreen 5]

heyDonna113, Awesome poem. and it says it so true!

Edited October 31, 2008 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

Gadget, This too is scriptural. As I said before, The Lord God said it first "Those who will not work, shall not eat."

[Nanook 2]

Did anyone see the Colbert Report the other night? He actually had the man running on the socialist ticket for president, Brian Moore and he basically thinks that people calling Obama a socialist is a joke.

PS: I've been undecided but I'm getting much closer to who I'm voting for even if I can't tell my husband!

[gadgetlady 4]

Obama was rated the #1 most liberal US Senator. The one member of the US Senate who calls himself a socialist is rated below Obama on the "liberal" scale (in terms of voting record). If it quacks like a duck . . .

[Coffi 0]

Nanook...funny post! I know a handful of people in your situation...voting differently from their spouse.

Here is something I found...it is long but sweet (no name calling, I promise!):

I Didn't Vote For Obama

by Kentucky Scott

Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 01:24:08 PM PDT

I'm a middle-class white guy living in Jacksonville, Florida. I've got a wife and two kids. Because the kids had no school today, I took a vacation day from work, and took the kids downtown to vote early. Fifty-nine minutes later, two smiling children and I proudly sported "I Voted" stickers.

But I didn't vote for Obama.

I voted for my ancestors, who believed in the promise of this country and came with nothing as immigrants.

I voted for my parents, who taught in the public schools for decades.

I voted for Steve, an acquaintance of mine from Kentucky. (Killed by an IED two years ago in Iraq).

I voted for Shawn, another who's been to Iraq twice, and Afghanistan once, and who'll be going back to Afghanistan again soon -- and whose family earned eleven bucks a month too much to qualify for food stamps when the war started.

I voted for April, the only African-American girl in my high school -- it was years before it occurred to me how different her experience of our school must have been.

I voted for my college friends who are Christian, Jewish, Mormon, and yes -- Muslim.

I voted for my grandfathers, who worked hard in factories and died too young.

I voted for the plumber who worked on my house, because I want him to get a REAL tax break.

I voted for four little angels from Birmingham.

I voted for a bunch of dead white men who, although personally flawed, were willing to pledge their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor, and used a time of great crisis to expand freedom rather than suspend it.

I voted for all those people and more, and I voted for all of you, too. But mostly, I voted selfishly. I vote for two little kids, one who has ballet in an hour, and once who has baseball practice at the same time. I voted for a world where they can be confident that their government will represent the best that is in this country, and that will in turn demand the best of them. I voted for a government that will be respected in the world. I voted for an economy that will reward work above guile. I voted for everything I believe in.

Sure, I filled in the circle next to the name Obama, but it wasn't him I was voting for -- it was every single one of us, and those I love most of all.

Who else is there to vote for?

[plain 12]

Plain - I really do hope you are not painting all liberals with the "stupid" paint brush. My undergrad is in poli sci and I have an MBA. As I have stated numerous times, we are electing a President, not a dictator. The fact that Bush's approval numbers are in the TOILET, I think it's "stupid" to support someone that's voted with Bush 90% of the time.

Nope. I've seen my share of stupid conservatives, too. Did you see John Stossel's (sp) bit about the average voter?

pretty sad, the continually name calling. doesn't allow for proper debate & is quite unnecessary.

I didn't call anybody any name.

Oh and PS - our Founding Fathers didn't fight for YOU to be able to own any kind of gun other than one that fired once after one packed in the gun powder.< /div>

WTF? By that logic, the founding fathers didn't fight for our right to electricity, or the internal combustion engine, or antibiotics. What's your point, exactly?

And whats with all the Bush stuff? Is it ok to point out McCain's associations with Bush, but then decry Obama's associations with Bill Ayers? Personally, I dont get as riled up about all this stuff as some on this thread. If reading this raises anybodys BP, then.....don't read. Problem solved.

[gadgetlady 4]

I voted for my ancestors, who believed in the promise of this country and came with nothing as immigrants.

What, pray tell, is the promise of this country?

[Nanook 2]

Coffi,

That was really nice and exactly how I feel now too. My brother adopted an African American baby right after he was born 18 years ago and my siblings are very liberal and always have been. I have been turned in many ways in other directions but this year I decided to vote with my heart instead of my wallet. I don't know if that makes sense but that's how I feel. Take care Nancy.:biggrin:

[gadgetlady 4]

For those of you who think you could never make $250k/year and therefore Obama's proposed definition of "rich" (and therefore deserving of being punished with higher taxes) is perfectly fine with you, watch this -- in Obama's and Biden's own words:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3zHBXg18nc]YouTube - Slippery Slope[/ame]

Edited November 1, 2008 by gadgetlady

[Coffi 0]

Go to Obama's website and you will be able to get all of the information you need.

[Coffi 0]

Barack Obama and Joe Biden: The Change We Need | Policy Issues

There are all of the topics that you can look into if you would like.

[pattygreen 5]

change, change, change...thats Barak alright!

[gadgetlady 4]

Keep the change.

[gadgetlady 4]

Change. Because that's all you'll have left after he takes all your money.