WHY are people voting for McCain?

[Coffi 0]

It is so sad to hear such judgmental people. I am Christian too, but I have grown up to respect people and the choices that they make. There is too much going on in my life to be so concerned about what choices people are making for their own lives. Some of you sound like you have no diversity in your lives. Do you have gay friends that you love and still tell them to their faces that they do not have a right to be together? If it is such a sin and God is frowning upon them, then he is frowning down upon you and me and everyone in that case. Because last I can remember God loves all. We all sin and who is anyone to say that one sin is greater than the other? People are going to continue having abortions legal or illegal. So many stories about women and children who have had illegal abortions and lost their own lives....there go two lives. If abortion is legal and safe, in my opinion it is safer than illegal. If we have the resources for a woman or child to have an abortion, then let that be their choice and their problem to take up with God. Because it is legal doesn't mean that YOU have to go and have it done. I do not know any woman that is happy to go and have an abortion. It is tough for anyone to be in such a situation. Keep your noses out of people's business. If some decides to sin...be glad that it is them and not you if that is how you feel. There is a whole world of people out there different races, religions and upbringings. Be glad that you have come from or have acquired a hard working mentality. Some people unfortunately have not been so lucky. If I made over 250K, I would be happy to be taxed more and "spread the wealth around" that is the kindest act. It just kills me how unfortunate some people are. Besides, who decides what someone should be paid. The hardest workers of all get paid the very least. What about teachers? They are paid pretty poorly, many of my frineds that are teachers have to have 2 jobs!!! Kids are growing up and being raised by teens as parents who offer them no direction...these kids start with a disadvantage from the start. It is not their faults that they do not have strong role models to learn from. There has to be someone out there who is willing to try and get to the root of the problems. Yes education has to be looked at...that is so key! You can't just expect people to change overnight. Everything happens for a reason. It is so sad. People are more concerned with their patronage to their political party than have an open mind. I have voted dem and rep...I am not stuck believing only one way is the way to go. I don't know...this all just makes me sad.

[gadgetlady 4]

Coffi, I have so many comments to what you've posted, but I'm tired right now. I want to say one thing about the overall tone, though. Just because a person believes he or she has the right to decide what to do with his or her own money doesn't mean he or she is selfish.

I firmly believe in charity. I have friends who say I am one of the most generous people they know. Even my accountant told me that the percentage that my husband and I donate to charity far surpasses the majority of her clientele. Just because I believe people have the right to do what they want with their own money doesn't mean I believe in hoarding it. It simply means I believe people have the RIGHT to hoard it if they so choose, and just because I disagree with them doesn't mean I have the right to force them to behave differently.

My objection is to FORCED charity. The government is a proven wasteful, inefficient bureaucracy. And the places they choose to direct the taxes they impose are not the places I would choose to direct that same money.

I had a thought several years ago -- wouldn't it be wonderful if people could take a portion of what they owed the government, cut out the middleman, and give it directly to charity? So you could choose to take 20% of your taxes due, circumvent the IRS completely, and give the money directly to organizations that support your beliefs. I think that's a great idea -- but it would never pass because the government wants their sticky little (big?) hand in everything.

Yes, absolutely, there are people out there who work hard and seem to get nowhere. And often they're in the jobs that our citizenry should value the most. I was a teacher once; I know. But just because we lament their laborious work doesn't mean we have the right to "redistribute" someone else's money to ease their situation. It's just plain wrong.

[Coffi 0]

That is wonderful that you are so generous!

[gadgetlady 4]

That wasn't the point of my post, but I hope it makes you less sad :smile2:

(and just so you know, I don't run around telling people they're sinners either -- because I am one myself and I know there is no level to which I could not sink)

[Coffi 0]

I am still sad...crying over here. LOL!

[gadgetlady 4]

I'm right there with you. I'm terrified out of my gourd as to what will happen to this country if Obama gets elected. Scares me to death. I just have to remember God has a plan . . . God has a plan . . . God has a plan . . .

[smsmithart 4]

I think that if you guys are so prolife you should be more than happy to take up some of the burdens that all these unwanted children have created....then they turn into teens and adults and still need the help of the state...so wich is gadgetlady abort them or pay for them...u say someone will want these kids and love them ....WHO?

Obama 08

[pattygreen 5]

I have grown up to respect people as well, but i dont always respect their choices. And to answer your question, Yes, I have people that I love who are gay. My sister and my nephew are both gay. I love them very much. No, I dont tell them to their faces that they shouldn't live that way. They know how God feels about this sin, and that is between them and God. We all have a right to do as we please (and we will answer to God for or decisions in this life), but I choose to pick a president who I believe will abide by Gods laws (at least some of them). I don't think Obama will even pray for gudance each morning before he starts his day as president. At least I believe Sara Palin will and could be an influence in the White House to make sure the Leaders begin each day with prayer.

You are right when you say no one sin is greater than the other and we all sin. This is true, and we can all be forgiven for them if we ask for it, but when we outright have acceptance for the sins of mankind, and allow these sins to be part of our Nation by voting for candidates who will support these sins, then we are sinning and now we have to answer to God for it.

You say that if you made over $250,000 you would be happy to be taxed more? Wouldn't you rather put your wealth where you see fit? Why should the gov. take your money to give to whom they choose?

Like McCain said, " Paying teachers more doesn't solve the problem of education." Some of the highest paid teachers have the worst academic problems.

Also, I'm not a patronage of my political party, and i'm not just voting Republican to do so. Whichever candidate were to me the most moral or had the highest Character qualitys would get my vote. Character is VERY important. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If everyone lived by this one rule, there wouldn't be ANY problems in the world! (and by the way, this is another one of God's rules) It's funny how people will pick and choose the laws of God that they will follow.

Edited October 18, 2008 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

just because someone is unwanted, doesn't mean we should get rid of them. If that were the case, half of all the mother-in-laws in this nation would be killed.lol(just a joke, I truely love my mother-in-law)But you see where i'm going. There are MANY people in this country who would want a child and can't have one of their own. This country has never had a shortage of adoptive parents.

[green 6]

These folks who are so concerned about the rights of foetuses and yet resent paying taxes that will support and improve the school and other social systems which protect and assist children to flourish make me giggle.

[Coffi 0]

Yes, there are tons of kids out there that need homes. The agencies exploit kids...charging insane amounts of money to adopt. And if you go through the dcfs...the legal fees are insane. You have to meet strict health guidelines and the process takes a lot of time. When my husband and I were looking at children to adopt online, it kind of reminded me of classified ads. One line would be an add saying "hi I am Anita, I am 10 years old, I love Barbies and playing outside. I would love to be a part of your family. I have 2 brothers that need to be adopted along with me. Mike who is 14 and John who is 7." lots of posts along those lines. My husband and I coiuld never afford to take 3 older children. We had a foster son in his last year of high school and that was such a huge challenge for us. Taking older children with their own pasts and histories is so difficult. I could not imagine being able to take an older child for adoption even though I would want to somehow be able to help. My husband and I felt like we would like to start out whth a baby or toddler that we could raise by our standards. Someone that we could try and help be preparred for life as best we could. I know it sounds bad, but it was really difficult with our older foster son. He is one of 6 siblings that are in the system. None of the brothers and sisters are together. If there is an abundance of adoptive parents out there who are able to take children like these...where are they? It takes a very special person to be able to successsfully take care of older children who have the burdens of past troubles. I had to take my son to therapy sessions a couple times a week. My son was on probation from "tagging" and I had to make sure that he went to his community service, my son had run away from all of his previous foster parents, my son had threatened to hit my mother when my mother tried being his foster mom a few years before. I thought that I could change his life...move him down to the suburbs and give him this whole new wonderful and safe life. I was sick of seeing him be passed along from foster mom to foster mom. Since he knew me from when he was younger and I loved him so much, I thought that this could really work. He went from sharing bedrooms with other foster kids and their own situations, to having his own bedroom with us. He got suspended for fighting at his new school. I was in contact with his teachers almost daily, just to make sure he did not fall behind. I found a used condom wrapper in his room. I had to take him to adult school each night to try and help him catch up. He had meeting with a wrap around program that was once a week. It was so dang hard. He got to the point where he started yelling at me and lying to me, so I told him that I could not allow him to be this way in our home. He was so close to turning 18 that the social worker allowed him to be moved into a teen home. After being there for a couple of days, he called me to tell me that he appreciates what my husband and I did for him and that he loved us. I cried of course. We are still in contact. I send him text messages and call him to stay in contact. He kept me as a top friend on his myspace, hahaha! I had to join because I wanted to know what he was up to. He considers me his sister and family so I am happy that he doesn't hate me. I still worry about him and his future...he is now in Oregon selling phones...no degree, hardly any education. I hope he makes it. He frightened me when he told me that he thought that he was going to be a dad...I thought Oh nooooooooooooo! But thankfully his gf was not pregnant. she is only 16 and he is 18. I told him that he better not get his gf pregnant...I told him to try and learn from his biological mother's mistakes.

There is a mess out there. There has got to be a way to make things better. My foster son did not ask to be born into this situation, but how has he been raised all of his life. He started out with his grandparents doing his elementary homework for him. Ughhhh, just frustrating.

[gadgetlady 4]

My husband and I have dear friends who are emergency foster parents. They have 3 grown (one still in hs) daughters and they're now taking infants into their home. The first baby they got was a crack baby with a train-wreck set of natural parents. They've had this baby in their house for about 1 1/2 years now (other babies have come and gone due to their unique situations), and they now want to adopt her (their goal at the beginning was not to become adoptive parents, but rather just provide foster care_. The problem is, her parents, despite not being able to clean up their lives, despite not being able to get a job or have a home that passes muster for the state, despite not taking any steps to regularly visit their daughter, despite all of the other obvious problems that they have, won't give up rights to her. Our friends, who are now completely head-over-heels in love with this baby, are terrified that she will be taken away from them and given back to either the father or the mother (who are no longer together) and put back into a horrible familial situation.

The problems that these babies face are multi-faceted. The solutions are as well. To say that people are unwilling to adopt foster children is a broad-stroke answer that doesn't look at the fine-brush problems.

There are a lot of changes that need to be made, including changes to the foster care system and the adoption system. We have huge social issues all over the nation and the world. But none of these needed changes and horrible social issues warrants the wholesale murder of people in an effort to solve them (that's what Hitler tried). The solution to our problems shouldn't be to kill the innocent victims of the situations. We don't go around killing the elderly, the disabled, the underpriveleged, the downtrodden, and so forth -- similarly we shouldn't just kill the unborn because we think they might have an undesirable future.

I am ALL for the prevention of unwanted pregnancies. I believe very strongly in birth control and believe women who never want to have children shouldn't be discriminated against when they want to be sterilized (as several on this board have had happen to them). But once the baby is created, I don't believe in killing him or her because we're not happy with their being alive.

[Devana 0]

I'm right there with you. I'm terrified out of my gourd as to what will happen to this country if Obama gets elected. Scares me to death. I just have to remember God has a plan . . . God has a plan . . . God has a plan . . .

I'm somewhat of an outsider to your election, so there are things I don't understand. Terrified out of your gourd and scared to death are very strong emotions. Can you tell me what you think will happen to the country if Obama is elected that makes you feel so strongly?

[gadgetlady 4]

I'm somewhat of an outsider to your election, so there are things I don't understand. Terrified out of your gourd and scared to death are very strong emotions. Can you tell me what you think will happen to the country if Obama is elected that makes you feel so strongly?

I have many concerns, but here are my top ones: taking a country that's already financially on the ropes and increasing taxes on everyone (and I do believe he will do this, despite what he says), and further taxing small businesses, is a recipe for disaster. Great Depression, part II, here we come. I am very, very concerned about the overall goal that he has of redistributing the wealth; the last thing we need right now is socialism. I am concerned, as a homeschooling parent, about his goals in the education system -- and I do fear that, given the power, he would attempt to outlaw homeschooling. I am concerned that his plan to socialize health care will destroy our medical system. I am horrified by his votes in the Illinois Senate to deny lifesaving medical care to babies who are born after botched abortions, despite his lying to the American public to try to offer an "excuse" for this action. I'm concerned about his indicating he would sign FOCA, codifying abortion-on-demand through all 9 months of pregnancy for any reason, and his goal of providing this at taxpayer expense. I'm concerned about the Supreme Court justices he will nominate. I'm concerned about his wholesale lack of understanding about foreign affairs, his willingness to meet with terrorists, and his ignorance about how to handle foreign conflict. On more than one occasion, when asked how he would deal with terrorist states, he has indicated that he would talk to them and try to reason with them. When one of his advisers was asked about the Russian intrusion into Georgia and how he would handle that, the knee-jerk response was something along the lines of "Obama wouldn't have let it get to that point; he would have negotiated with them before they invaded" -- as if foreign countries are going to run their invasions by him and follow his instruction.

There are many, many more things I'm worried about -- the above is just a sample -- but does that help you understand my concerns?

[pattygreen 5]

i'm with you on this. What a mess our country would be in if he got in there. God help us all. But remember, the people will get the leaders that they desire, and the consequences of their choices. It is written in the bible that times will get worse before the end, not better.

On another note, it is interesting that you homeschool your children beacause I do also. What grades are they in and how many do you have? Do you use a particular curriculum or do you make yours up? Just curious.