WHY are people voting for McCain?

[gadgetlady 4]

I don't have a specified time in my mind that life begins, and noone can prove when it does begin. So I can see why at conception might be an obvious choice for you, totally, but I just don't feel that way.

If no one can prove when it does begin, then who's to say we can't go around killing toddlers if they interfere with your life? Do you see the problem? We don't get to decide for other people when their life begins. It begins when it begins. It isn't a personal decision.

It's such a sad thing either way, and I commend you for standing up for your beliefs, because not wanting any child to be killed is very understandable, and I agree with you.

Thank you. It is a woefully sad issue. I weep not only for the babies, but also for the mothers.

[Donna113 2]

Can we take the pro-life/pro-choice debate elsewhere? I don't believe anyone's going to vote for or against McCain based on their stance on abortion. While McCain has hmmmed and hawed around this issue recently, in the past, he's said he is personally against abortion but doesn't want to enforce his beliefs on this issue on anyone else. SO IF he gets to nominate a supreme court justice, I don't believe his final determination is going to be decided by whether that particular judge will overturn Roe v. Wade. SO, let's get this discussion back to Obama vs. McCain and not a pro-choice/pro-life debate.

[Great2BThin 5]

Can we take the pro-life/pro-choice debate elsewhere? I don't believe anyone's going to vote for or against McCain based on their stance on abortion. While McCain has hmmmed and hawed around this issue recently, in the past, he's said he is personally against abortion but doesn't want to enforce his beliefs on this issue on anyone else. SO IF he gets to nominate a supreme court justice, I don't believe his final determination is going to be decided by whether that particular judge will overturn Roe v. Wade. SO, let's get this discussion back to Obama vs. McCain and not a pro-choice/pro-life debate.

I think your are incorrect in that. Many folks base their vote on a candidates view on abortion for or against.

[Donna113 2]

Long, you are right and I misspoke (mistyped). What I meant to say is that they shouldn't vote for McCain or Obama based on their stance on abortion since neither want to overturn Roe v. Wade. Make your decision on something else.

[Daisalana 33]

Long, you are right and I misspoke (mistyped). What I meant to say is that they shouldn't vote for McCain or Obama based on their stance on abortion since neither want to overturn Roe v. Wade. Make your decision on something else.

I think this conversation is relevant.. and though you may think they shouldn't vote for them based on this, why do you think it is your place to tell someone why they should/shouldn't vote for someone? You can't govern what is or isn't important to people.

[Donna113 2]

I just wanted to enlighten people. If people are voting for McCain thinking he will spend all his efforts on overturning Roe v. Wade during his presidency, they may be in for a big surprise. I plan on voting for McCain because I believe he will stick to governing the FEDERAL government and stay out of bedroom politics.

[gadgetlady 4]

I think this conversation is relevant.. and though you may think they shouldn't vote for them based on this, why do you think it is your place to tell someone why they should/shouldn't vote for someone? You can't govern what is or isn't important to people.

I'm pro-choice on the issue of whether or not people have a right to make a decision about a candidate based on their position on abortion. LOL!

[gadgetlady 4]

I believe he will stick to governing the FEDERAL government and stay out of bedroom politics.

Roe and Doe made abortion a FEDERAL issue.

[Donna113 2]

Gadget lady, are you voting for McCain because you believe he will try to influence the Justices to overturn Roe v. Wade or that if he gets an opportunity he will appoint a Justice that will overturn Roe v. Wade? You are certainly free to vote based on whatever criteria you have, but is McCain your choice because of abortion issues?

I believe I read in some other thread that you consider yourself to be a true liberterian in every sense of the word, but if that was the case, you would not want the federal government to legislate abortion.

[gadgetlady 4]

Darn. I just composed a whole response to this and my computer ate it. I'll try again.

Gadget lady, are you voting for McCain because you believe he will try to influence the Justices to overturn Roe v. Wade or that if he gets an opportunity he will appoint a Justice that will overturn Roe v. Wade? You are certainly free to vote based on whatever criteria you have, but is McCain your choice because of abortion issues?

I will never, ever vote for a candidate who isn't pro-life. I did once, cried while I did it, and have regretted it ever since. A candidate's position on this issue is extremely important to me because if he/she believes in the wholesale murder of innocent human beings, how can I trust him/her on other issues? That being said, McCain was BY FAR not my first choice for a candidate. However, he is dramatically better than the alternative (a pro-abortion socialist).

As to the issue of judges, I don't think anyone can accurately predict what a judge will do when presented with a case. We've had so many clearly wrong issues throughout history. I do, however, support his intention to appoint judges who strictly adhere to the constitution.

I believe I read in some other thread that you consider yourself to be a true liberterian in every sense of the word, but if that was the case, you would not want the federal government to legislate abortion.

I am absolutely a libertarian in the true sense of the word. I believe 100% that people have the absolute right to do whatever they want with their own bodies, so long as their actions do not impede on the lives or rights of others. My position on abortion doesn't conflict with my liberatarian views one iota. Since the actions of the person seeking the abortion will cause the deliberate and willful death of another human being (with distinct and separate DNA, circulatory system, body parts, etc.), the action of abortion is an assault on the right to life of another person -- and therefore the purvue of the government, just as any other murder or child abuse issue is the purvue of the government.

(Ah well, I wrote it better the first time around, but so be it)

[Donna113 2]

"

Darn. I just composed a whole response to this and my computer ate it. I'll try again."

Hate it when that happens.

"

I am absolutely a libertarian in the true sense of the word. I believe 100% that people have the absolute right to do whatever they want with their own bodies, so long as their actions do not impede on the lives or rights of others. My position on abortion doesn't conflict with my liberatarian views one iota. Since the actions of the person seeking the abortion will cause the deliberate and willful death of another human being (with distinct and separate DNA, circulatory system, body parts, etc.), the action of abortion is an assault on the right to life of another person -- and therefore the purvue of the government, just as any other murder or child abuse issue is the purvue of the government."

You are claiming a fetus is a human being. I agree from a scientific point of view that life begins at inception but I'm not so sure that a fetus in the first trimester qualifies as a viable human being who has the ability to independently survive outside of the womb or an incubator. I personally find abortion abhorrent for me but I am very ambivalent about taking that right away from anyone else. I find it difficult to tell a woman that the rights of the fetus in her womb overrides her right to control what happens to her body. Once the fetus is at a viable stage (can survive indpendent of the womb), I believe those who would still have an abortion are crossing the line into "murder".

[Gracey 7]

I will never, ever vote for a candidate who isn't pro-life.

Hmm you want a President that is "pro-life" but only when it comes to the life of a fetus. Dubya doesn't seem to care about the lives of the soldiers he is sending to Iraq and Afghanistan. Just sayin'

[gadgetlady 4]

You are claiming a fetus is a human being. I agree from a scientific point of view that life begins at inception but I'm not so sure that a fetus in the first trimester qualifies as a viable human being who has the ability to independently survive outside of the womb or an incubator. I personally find abortion abhorrent for me but I am very ambivalent about taking that right away from anyone else. I find it difficult to tell a woman that the rights of the fetus in her womb overrides her right to control what happens to her body. Once the fetus is at a viable stage (can survive indpendent of the womb), I believe those who would still have an abortion are crossing the line into "murder".

A newborn can't "independently survive" either. The problem I have with the viability argument is that "viability" has changed over the years as medical technology advances. A baby in the 1970's would have been considered "viable" much later than a baby in 2008. So it's problematic to base whether someone deserves basic human rights on medical technology.

Did you know that scientists are working on an artificial placenta? Do you think abortion-minded mothers would be OK with having the baby removed and sustained with an alternate device? I doubt it. Mothers who are seeking abortions don't simply want to be "unpregnant". They want to not have a baby at all, and they think by aborting they are accomplishing that. What they're really accomplishing is having a dead baby.

The other problem I have is that abortion is legal through all 9 months of pregnancy (despite what pro-abortionists and those factually challenged or believing in propaganda say all the time). So viability isn't a measure at all, as babies are being killed post-viability every day in this country.

[gadgetlady 4]

Dubya doesn't seem to care about the lives of the soldiers he is sending to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Do you truly believe that Bush is callous to the loss of our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan?

[Donna113 2]

I don't know why people have abortions, I assume the reasons are as varied as the people. I can't imagine it's easy for anyone who goes through it just as it's difficult for people to go through with an unwanted pregnancy.