Which type are you?

[losingjusme 12]

'Self esteem' without a valid reason is also known as 'delusion'.

as is sucess ... errr ... success :ohmy:

[mstrina27 0]

I don't think i can type fast enough and i type actually 130wpm....lol... and i ain't gonna do no spell check either...lol.. I agree 1000% with what u have said. That really does burn me up also.... Face your own issues... and get your azz up and do the freekin work... I dispise the threads that say i just cheated and i feel so bad.... threads...lol are u kidding.. did u not post that to validate your falling off of the wagon... like hey if i get 2-3 people that say don't feel bad then prehaps i can go eat a 1/2 gallon of ice cream and those same people will say hey dont beat yourself up... its ok.... uhhhhh lets get it together people.....:ohmy:

[MacMadame 81]

Well I didn't even get through 2 pages...

[Jachut 487]

Well, you're kind of right Kat, although I'm not so egotistical as to think that *everyone* wants and needs my help.

But yes, its frustration. The biggest thing about losing weight is realising that only you can do it. No, its not fair. Yes, its awful to be burdened with this cursed appetite/metablism/depression (insert your own afflictions here). What's the choice? You live with it and learn to manage it or you dont.

For those that dont, the agression and hatred poured onto those who have had success is quite astounding at times. Rather than think well this person's had some success, maybe what she's saying is worth thinking about. I can decide to use it or not, but perhaps its worth listening.

Or then again, maybe that would make me really LOOK at myself so why dont I just turn it into a fight instead. That way I can make her look bad and continue feeling OK about my own choices.

Frustrating is right!

I dont mind a bit of a whinge session. I can even be helpful when people have eaten 3 chickens and their cat whilst still on liquids. But the endless pity parties, ugh.

[tommaney 0]

KatW thanks for your eloquent response. This quote resonated especially well: "Am I right when I say that a major aspect of this thread is the feeling that your efforts are unappreciated by some of these other people on this forum? I get what you are saying in that regard. It ain't easy for any of us. What's true is that every one has to find their own answer in their own time and in their own way."

Jachut--this thread appears to have been an excellent place to get those feelings of frustration validated. "Everyone having their own answer" unfortunately means that not everyone will accept your attempt to help.

[Jachut 487]

Hmmm,really? Then I may just change the title of this thread to THE WORLD ACCORDING TO SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED AND IS ALWAYS RIGHT. Everyone here must agree with me and validate my feelings or I may get sulky. I might even say I'm leaving, hang around to read all the "no, please dont go's" and then just start more threads looking for people to agree with me.

The ironic thing is I hate advice too. Cant stand self help books. Dont listen to nutritionists. Would probably kick Dr Phil in the nuts where I to meet the sanctimonious creep. Although Dr Phil often says "forget the excuses, you have a choice and you're making the wrong one" to people, doesnt he? Hmm, maybe I like him afterall.

But basically I cant stand psychobabble. I dont believe there's always reasons for being fat. I ate lots of food coz I darn well liked it and it felt good. I really think that's why most people do it. But they cant admit they're greedy so they have to blame it on something else.

Thinking "hey, I'm a greedy guts and I sit on my ass all day long" can be a lot more constructive than trying to psychoanalyse everything. You may indeed feel compelled to overeat becuase your brother ate all of your birthday cake when you were eleven. But at the end of the day your birthday cake will still be all gone wont it? Do you REALLY need to treat the reason or just change the behaviour?

I dunno, I just think if you've gone so far as to get banded, you've decided to change the behaviour. If you're not ready to tackle the behaviour because you have a burning desire to work out the WHY of it, then perhaps banding is not a great idea - yet.

I *still* have no idea why I did/do overeat. Dont need to. I just need to know as long as I dont do it I wont get fat again.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Jachut

[MacMadame 81]

Although Dr Phil often says "forget the excuses, you have a choice and you're making the wrong one" to people, doesnt he? Hmm, maybe I like him afterall.

No, he's a poser.

I ate lots of food coz I darn well liked it and it felt good. I really think that's why most people do it. But they cant admit they're greedy so they have to blame it on something else.

This is where I part company with you. I'm well aware of the science behind obesity and this may be how lots of people got there, but once you get there, you are now a prisoner of your body which is doing everything it can to keep that weight on.

This is the whole reason to get WLS, IMO. WLS, unlike diet and exercise, will break the physiological cycle and give us fatties the same kind of body chemistry as the non-obese. That gives us a fighting chance.

The rest is up to us. But one reason that WLS works for so many people, IMO, is that for many of us, it really is a matter of being hungry all the time and not a matter of unresolved feelings or low self-esteem leading to destructive behavior. But it doesn't work for everyone so obviously the biology isn't the whole story for everyone.

Do you REALLY need to treat the reason or just change the behaviour?

There's a whole philosophy of therapy that concentrates on behavior. You change our behaviors and that changes your thinking instead of the traditional method of working on the feelings. It's sounds like you've figured that our yourself -- that you can change your feelings by changing your behaviors.

[Jachut 487]

Oh, you're not agreeing with me?

That's it, I"m leaving :grouphug:

hangs around waiting for the *please dont go's"

..... well...... I'm waiting .......

Well, yes, it IS different for everyone I guess. I was never that hungry, just ate lots becuase I liked it. Heck, I didnt have a chance to GET hungry, I was such a piglet.

[KatW 0]

Well, you're kind of right Kat, although I'm not so egotistical as to think that *everyone* wants and needs my help.

But yes, its frustration. The biggest thing about losing weight is realising that only you can do it. No, its not fair. Yes, its awful to be burdened with this cursed appetite/metablism/depression (insert your own afflictions here). What's the choice? You live with it and learn to manage it or you dont.

For those that dont, the agression and hatred poured onto those who have had success is quite astounding at times. Rather than think well this person's had some success, maybe what she's saying is worth thinking about. I can decide to use it or not, but perhaps its worth listening.

Or then again, maybe that would make me really LOOK at myself so why dont I just turn it into a fight instead. That way I can make her look bad and continue feeling OK about my own choices.

Frustrating is right!

I dont mind a bit of a whinge session. I can even be helpful when people have eaten 3 chickens and their cat whilst still on liquids. But the endless pity parties, ugh.

Goodness, Certainly never meant to imply that everyone wants or needs your help- not sure I used that word! Sorry if you took that from my post.

You are right that not every comment needs to turn into a fight. I do know that every fight that I have been in, I chose to be in it. At a certain point it never mattered who started it. If they kicked first, I kicked second and so on...

Anyway, different strokes and all that. I think on another post you ask if one needs the understanding???(something like that) or if you can just change the behavior. Good for you if you don't need the understanding. Me, Understanding has always preceded change. I am an introspective, introverted over processor. Without asking why, sometimes for years on end, I never get where I am going. I have a sister more on your side of the fence and I have driven her crazy and she has driven me crazy with her dislike of what she calls my "beating a dead horse". The good news is that she can do it her way and it works for her, and I can do it my way and we can still meet for coffee and agree that other one has it all wrong.

[tommaney 0]

"Everyone here must agree with me and validate my feelings or I may get sulky."

If you took offense, it wasn't my intention to imply that you were actively seeking validation. To revise, it simply appears that posting your position here in R&R has resulted in several responses that are in accordance with what you've put forth. Whether or not you sought or benefited from that is irrelevant. Clearly, you've told us that you were able to convert your frustration into a healthy lifestyle choice (the marathon). The ability to do that is a great asset for any lapbander.

"Psychobabble," however you are defining it, obviously isn't for everybody. I myself believe that mental and physical health should be actively sought after simultaneously. If you are of the position that mental disorders and therapy which addresses past trauma do not impact weight problems (or lifestyles that cause them), then I'd suggest saving yourself future frustration and not visiting that thread anymore.

Unless of course you do want to read things that rub you the wrong way, then use that to go out and exercise. That seems productive as well!

[Jachut 487]

Kat, Tommaney, bear with me today. I'm not offended. I'm in a mood. I've gone a bit mad with the power of my very own thread.

I'll probably be banned by the end of the day.

Now onto what you're saying. Yes, I do need to be more tolerant of that. I know it. I'm firmly in the "go home and have a good hard sniff of yourself " camp. Call a spade a spade. Act decisively or not at all.

I'm kind of a pain in the arse actually. My poor DH, a bit prone to anxiety, or as I most fondly refer to it, raving hyponchondria, lol. I refuse to indulge him in the slightest. He used to be medicated for it, lol, I've fixed him. He wouldnt dare even say he had a headache these days.

Obviously I'm joking (a bit) and its lucky he's not seriously afflicted because truly, I dont think I'd be any good at supporting someone suffering from any degree of affliction from self doubt right through to full on depression. I just dont have that in me. I'm a no nonsense sorta person.

I couldnt be a nurse either becuase I'd make everyone get out of bed and go for a walk round the block. It works well in teaching though. I'm good at getting the most out of students!

Its not the best approach for everyone, not by a long shot. I get what you're saying.

Dont take me too seriously today, please. I promise I will be sensible again soon. I'm just having a very public episode of washing BrandyII right outta my hair.

And also, I did go out for lunch and have 2 chardonnays.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Jachut

[pearlygirl 1]

LOL!!! This is a GREAT thread. I don't think there is any reasonable argument against what you are saying. Sure, people get fat for different reasons, stay fat for different reasons, some gain/lose easier than others etc. Regardless, there is a very, VERY small percentage of people who truly have a medical condition that causes their obesity. Excuses suck. I have PCOS, that can make it a bit easier to gain/harder to lose. Guess what, there are skinny people with PCOS, there are even fat people with PCOS who become skinny...okay, so that excuse won't work. What it comes down to is simple....you HAVE to eat healthier food in smaller portions and exercise. That is how you lose weight with or without the band. Jachut, you nailed it. This obesity epidemic stems from BEHAVIOR!!

[anonemouse 1]

I know I'll probably get slapped for this, but here goes nothing, lol! You know how we fat people are always complaining that skinny people think that all fat people are lazy, gluttonous slobs? I've honestly started to think that maybe they have a point, to a certain extent. Maybe part of the reason why it's so offensive to many fat people is that it hits a nerve, that deep down inside, the fat people think it's true, too. I mean, back when I was morbidly obese, I was super offended every time I heard a thin person talk about how fat people sit on their asses every day and stuff their faces with McD's, that the reason they can't lose weight is that they're lazy, full of excuses, etc. But now I realize that while that may not have been true of ALL fat folks, it was true of me, and I honestly think that's the reason I was so angry whenever I heard it. Deep down, I knew I matched that description, but I was too deep in denial to realize it.

[BJean 16]

Fat people are very efficient at storing calories. The fatter they get, the better they are at it. That means that they definitely are not moving as much as a slim, faster fat-metabolizing physical machines.

Most of us fat people become very good at avoiding exerting more energy than is necessary for any given task.

All of this is true. Running in marathons will probably result in a person developing a great metabolism and a slimmer body. Some marathon runners become just as fixated on exercise as fat people do on meals. Being slender and in good physical condition is much more attractive than being fat and out of shape. All things we know to be true, right?

However there is also another truth that we can mention here: people who are good at heart and who have compassion and understanding are generally more popular and nicer to spend time with even if they are fat than rude, boastful skinny folks who enjoy throwing their success in the faces of those who are having problems.

Sometimes our hormones get the better of us - another truth. So what's your excuse for running off a perfectly nice person? Do you feel powerful? Do you feel that you're really smart for being able to one-up someone? What's your motivation, you people who are enjoying yourselves at another person's expense?

Why do you dislike Dr. Phil so much? Does he hit a nerve sometimes? Well you've been able to hit a nerve. How does it make you feel to be in the company of Dr. Phil?

Maybe Jachut won't be the only one who's apologizing for being grumpy or whatever, but I have been very surprised at what's gone on here and on the recently closed down thread. I think both of these threads have gotten completely out of hand. It's fun to banter back and forth, but once you realize that someone is getting hurt, don't you think it's time to mend some fences?

[JillyPoo 0]

Laurend- I am not sure that I agree with you fully on this one. I think that there are the overweight people that are lazy and the "skinny" lazy people. Have you ever heard the term "skinny fat person"? I know several "skinny" people who are 4xs lazier than I could ever be, eat brownies for Breakfast, can't walk up hill without taking a break and so on, those are the people that I find don't understand overweight people. They truely have it in their heads that overweight people are lazy over eaters. I know what you are getting at and I agree with most of it . I personally know that I am lazy about myself and I have been on a pitty party for a few years, on how unfair weight is. I am working on that and have come to the reality that it will always be that way if I let it. I have to change my way of thinking because the fat isn't going anywhere by being a baby and having a fit:biggrin2:.