Which type are you?

[*JASMINE* 1]

Jachut-While you may not have actually said her name, you were talking about her. Please see post #48. What a coincidence that you started this thread right after you had that fight with her on another one. I understand what you are saying, I do. I know you're not like this all of the time. I've seen your posts in other sections. And maybe you've had time to cool down since then. I guess I just don't see how complaining about complainers helps anyone.

Laurend- I appreciate the level head, and you are right. I guess I feel the need to protect people in distress. But only they can help themselves.

But I will never, ever start a thread to complain about anything I read on the support sections of this board. I know it can get irritating. Sometimes reading mocking posts irritate ME. I will not do that because I don't need the added stress of fighting with a stranger on the internet. But I guess I was feeling froggy today. I will probably be completely mute tomorrow, who knows. Anyways, I'll leave it alone already...or maybe I won't (I just finished exercising and feel completely at peace right now).

[anonemouse 1]

Jachut-While you may not have actually said her name, you were talking about her. Please see post #48. What a coincidence that you started this thread right after you had that fight with her on another one. I understand what you are saying, I do. I know you're not like this all of the time. I've seen your posts in other sections. And maybe you've had time to cool down since then. I guess I just don't see how complaining about complainers helps anyone.

Laurend- I appreciate the level head, and you are right. I guess I feel the need to protect people in distress. But only they can help themselves.

But I will never, ever start a thread to complain about anything I read on the support sections of this board. I know it can get irritating. Sometimes reading mocking posts irritate ME. I will not do that because I don't need the added stress of fighting with a stranger on the internet. But I guess I was feeling froggy today. I will probably be completely mute tomorrow, who knows. Anyways, I'll leave it alone already...or maybe I won't (I just finished exercising and feel completely at peace right now).

But Jachut didn't either. The inspiration for this thread was a thread located right here in RnR, not one that started in another forum and got moved here. It was one that started in this forum. And I'd be willing to argue that the vast majority of the time, she wouldn't go and tell someone to get off their asses and exercise, in so many words, if they were making a post in one of the support forums. When someone posts in Rants and Raves, they are asking for people to be brutally honest in their responses, and they generally get what they ask for.

Edited June 27, 2008 by laurend

[BJean 16]

In your earlier post (4:38) Jachut you said that maybe since you're no longer losing weight and you're into the maintainance phase you may just not feel real tolerant of those people who aren't getting the job done. There may really be something to that. And honestly I can understand that. It's been boring to me sometimes when I read post after post where like flipper said, they're not eating correctly, not exercising, and wondering why the band isn't working. Sounds like laurend is definitely feeling that way too since she seems willing to toss some of us out on our ears without a backward glance.

I think the problem with some parts of this discussion and most of BrandyII's thread is that we have people at diametrically opposite ends of the spectrum in our journeys. We're just not communicating. You don't have the patience to offer anything supportive beyond telling us that the only means to the end is lots and lots of exercise (preferably running) and very little food. Whereas some of us who are still having difficulty reaching our goals and who are groping with emotional issues that we are trying to get past, feel that this hard-assed, hard-lined attitude is not helpful and is way too harsh.

I think we've beaten this old horse to death and I suggest that we get back to the interesting stories about people's personal experiences and what they've learned and stop calling trying to correct each other. Okay? Anybody got a problem with that? :blushing:

[Jachut 487]

Nope, I entirely agree. I dont want to fight with anyone about it, and in fact I've had my feelings confirmed in some ways and my views expanded in others. Discussion is good, fighting isnt.

But you frustrate me BJ because I am very definitely NOT saying that you must exercise lots (preferably run) and eat little. Actually I eat more than just about any bandster at this stage than I know and I have to exercise lots becuase I like eating too much. This is more about being honest with yourself and your behaviours and the reasons behind them. Its not about MY way to lose weight and it feels like I'm banging my head against a brick wall.

I talk about running a lot becuase I really really love it. Not becuase everyone else should do it it. I'm not frustrated by people that dont exercise, I'm not even frustrated by people that dont eat right, dont exercise and dont lose weight but know exactly why. I'm frustrated by people that arent doing positive things towards losing weight when they've gone to the extent to have surgery and then think its all some great unfairness because Ive had this marvellous passion magically "bestowed" upon me that enables me to run and therefore lose weight but they cant do it because I'm lucky and they're not.

I never got mad with BrandyII because she's not exercising or eating right, she first made me cross because she said running was a passion for me therefore I could exercise but she couldnt because she didnt have that passion. Did that passion fall out of the sky and hit me like a bolt from the blue? No, I built it, from hard work and consistency and ANYONE can do that. With whatever they choose to apply hard work and consistency to.

You dont have to build it if you dont want to, I'm not even saying that. You can not lose weight at all, you can lose weight without ever exercising, you can settle for going to a BMI of 35 from being 50. You can do high protein/low carb even though I dont think of it as a healthy way to eat. None of that is any skin off my nose until you tell me a) that I'm lucky and you're not or :blushing: you make my life miserable with all the wretched hand wringing over why you're not skinny yet and then get mad with me when I dare to suggest reasons.

Please please please tell me you get that and that I'm not some awful bitch sitting here saying "you dont run, therefore you're a fat, lazy pig". Because to think I'm talking on a level that shallow is to cast me in an extremely unflattering light. I'm neither that mean nor that stupid.

I just think a thought process like that is something of a choice regardless of other mental health and emotional issues. You can change it.

You might not agree you can change it, and that's fine. But I object and will continue to if you really think that I'm saying "you should choose to run, and eat less or else you're a failure".

Otherwise I'm fine to disagree and get back to more productive discussions.

Edited June 27, 2008 by Jachut

[anonemouse 1]

Sounds like laurend is definitely feeling that way too since she seems willing to toss some of us out on our ears without a backward glance.

Excuse me? Please stop putting words in my mouth, BJean. I know you're upset, but can the passive-aggressive shit, okay? I am quite willing to have a civil conversation or debate on the issue, but I don't like people putting words in my mouth or accusing me of saying things or thinking things that I haven't/don't. You know that, and I know you hate it when people do it to you in the other debates in this forum (the abortion debate, for one), so stop doing it to other people. It'll make things a hell of a lot smoother.

I remember saying quite clearly that I wasn't trying to say, "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out." My point is that I don't see why we should continuously beg someone to stay here when they either don't want to be here or aren't getting anything out of being here. There is only so much we can do to help someone. If they aren't willing to take the help, they aren't willing, and there isn't anything we can do until they are. We can beg and plead for them to stay, because we KNOW they could learn things here and get the help they need here, but until THEY come to that realization, we can't help them and they aren't getting anything out of being here. So if they aren't happy here and aren't getting what they need here, maybe they should be looking for a place that DOES meet their needs and not trying to force themselves to fit here or forcing the board to change for them. And maybe we should be happy with that, and not freaking out because someone's threatening to leave or because they aren't happy with the board.

I think the problem with some parts of this discussion and most of BrandyII's thread is that we have people at diametrically opposite ends of the spectrum in our journeys. We're just not communicating. You don't have the patience to offer anything supportive beyond telling us that the only means to the end is lots and lots of exercise (preferably running) and very little food. Whereas some of us who are still having difficulty reaching our goals and who are groping with emotional issues that we are trying to get past, feel that this hard-assed, hard-lined attitude is not helpful and is way too harsh.

I think you know and everyone else knows that Jachut is extremely supportive. If you've EVER read her posts in the past (I have and I CLEARLY remember this in just about every post I've ever read of hers on the topic of exercise and food), she always says that being banded is NOT about killing yourself with exercise or starving yourself. She does, however, say that you have to be using more calories than you're taking in, whether you use them through light exercise or heavy exercise, through Water aerobics, chair exercises, running, walking, whatever. You do what you CAN, but you have to do SOMETHING. She also is a huge proponent of eating a balanced, realistic diet, not starving yourself or continuously dieting or eating micro-portions. That's something that's always been perfectly clear in her posts. Always.

[BJean 16]

laurend: Whoa there. I apologize if I put words in your mouth that you never intended.

I added that little sentence about your post because I felt a very strong undercurrent in a couple of your previous posts on this topic when you let me know that you thought I was out of line. I was extremely disappointed that you would choose to call me down since I have on so many occasions supported you. I guess I thought that if you disagreed with me you might just see your way clear to let it pass without comment.

But heck, you gotta do what you gotta do and obviously your support of the way BrandyII was being treated said it quite plainly. I decided not to say anything before now but when you felt it necessary to post that perhaps when a person is having problems and can't handle the heat at LBT they should go someplace else where they can find peace and support, I just felt I needed to let you know I thought that was going too far. If the language I used is stronger than yours, just know that it is how your post read to me.

I guess you, for one, aren't ready to let it go and if this ridiculous discussion is ever going to go away, I'm going to have to just stop responding to the things I find to be rude and unacceptable.

[*JASMINE* 1]

But Jachut didn't either. The inspiration for this thread was a thread located right here in RnR, not one that started in another forum and got moved here. It was one that started in this forum. And I'd be willing to argue that the vast majority of the time, she wouldn't go and tell someone to get off their asses and exercise, in so many words, if they were making a post in one of the support forums. When someone posts in Rants and Raves, they are asking for people to be brutally honest in their responses, and they generally get what they ask for.

Laurend-I'm sorry, but my mind is drawing a blank. Which thread in the RnR section inspired this thread? No, she would not tell someone to get off of their asses and exercise in the support forums. She would just complain about it in the RnR section. I understand that. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on her intent. We're not in her mind. We'll never know what motivated her to start this thread, despite what she is saying now. And no, I am not trying to be ugly. I truly am curious about that thread in RnR that inspired her to start this one.???

[*JASMINE* 1]

Well, goodnight ladies. Will be back in the morning. Happy, or should I say, civil posting to all. I'm out for the night.

[Nanook 2]

Jachut-While you may not have actually said her name, you were talking about her. Please see post #48. What a coincidence that you started this thread right after you had that fight with her on another one. I understand what you are saying, I do. I know you're not like this all of the time. I've seen your posts in other sections. And maybe you've had time to cool down since then. I guess I just don't see how complaining about complainers helps anyone.

Laurend- I appreciate the level head, and you are right. I guess I feel the need to protect people in distress. But only they can help themselves.

But I will never, ever start a thread to complain about anything I read on the support sections of this board. I know it can get irritating. Sometimes reading mocking posts irritate ME. I will not do that because I don't need the added stress of fighting with a stranger on the internet. But I guess I was feeling froggy today. I will probably be completely mute tomorrow, who knows. Anyways, I'll leave it alone already...or maybe I won't (I just finished exercising and feel completely at peace right now).

Peace Jasmine you are "good people":thumbup: brandyII-Nanook

[BJean 16]

Jachut: I think in retrospect everything you're claiming about the way you feel regarding the Brandy bout is clear. I do get it. Serously.

But when the fracas was ongoing, your language and that of serveral others did not come across as being anything but completely intolerant and even accusatory.

I don't have any problem whatsoever with anyone telling their stories and calling someone on it when they've been asked for advice and then that person does not take the advice - especially when their reasons for not taking the advice are flimsy excuses. What I complained about were the words that became very personal affronts to someone who was honestly struggling and wanting to open a dialogue about it.

You are a person with a particular way of thinking and so am I. We're not bound to change one another, but if we read something that the other has posted that we vehemently diagree with, it's pretty certain that we're going to say something. You and I both have strong personalities, that's for sure. I understand that and I believe you understand that, but I don't think that everyone else does and I hate like hell to see someone get hurt here when they are having serious problems, just because you or I have strong opinions and we like to voice them.

I usually welcome it when someone lets me know I've stepped over the boundaries of civility and it has certainly happened before. I can handle it. And I hope that you and I become friends because we'd spent some time communicating back and forth and in trying to understand each other, and we're actually learning where each other's coming from. At this point, I'm sure you aren't a bad person. I hope you can say the same for me.

[Nanook 2]

In your earlier post (4:38) Jachut you said that maybe since you're no longer losing weight and you're into the maintainance phase you may just not feel real tolerant of those people who aren't getting the job done. There may really be something to that. And honestly I can understand that. It's been boring to me sometimes when I read post after post where like flipper said, they're not eating correctly, not exercising, and wondering why the band isn't working. Sounds like laurend is definitely feeling that way too since she seems willing to toss some of us out on our ears without a backward glance.

I think the problem with some parts of this discussion and most of BrandyII's thread is that we have people at diametrically opposite ends of the spectrum in our journeys. We're just not communicating. You don't have the patience to offer anything supportive beyond telling us that the only means to the end is lots and lots of exercise (preferably running) and very little food. Whereas some of us who are still having difficulty reaching our goals and who are groping with emotional issues that we are trying to get past, feel that this hard-assed, hard-lined attitude is not helpful and is way too harsh.

I think we've beaten this old horse to death and I suggest that we get back to the interesting stories about people's personal experiences and what they've learned and stop calling trying to correct each other. Okay? Anybody got a problem with that? :blushing:

BJean, my horse hurts too! I want it dropped also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!brandyII/Nanook:thumbup:

[BJean 16]

Brandy I am sure you are puking sick and tired of seeing your name in print in this context. I apologize to you as well. I certainly never intended for you to be hurt even more by these exchanges.

On a positive note, I'll bet your skin is a lot thicker and hereafter you'll be well able to take care of yourself without any input from the likes of me!

[Nanook 2]

Brandy I am sure you are puking sick and tired of seeing your name in print in this context. I apologize to you as well. I certainly never intended for you to be hurt even more by these exchanges.

On a positive note, I'll bet your skin is a lot thicker and hereafter you'll be well able to take care of yourself without any input from the likes of me!

BJean,

Daaammmmn my skin is much thicker!!!!!! but I have learned a little through all of this, yes, it is better to stay in the lap band failure closet, lol and fat people can have "good" self esteem!!!!!!!!!!!!! brandyII:smile:

Edited June 27, 2008 by Nanook
forgoteth the wordeth goodeth

[BJean 16]

Hang in there, hon. As my dear dietician says, we need to Celebrate our successes no matter how small and put the failures completely out of our minds. She says our brains are very powerful and if we think of ourselves as failing, it can turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy. (And we can't believe others when they tell us we're failing either!)

[Froggi 4]

oh boy ... found it...

thanks anyway froggi ..

and i agree, i dont think your insurance will deny you based upon your weigh loss

Welcome even though I was too slow and yet again am...haha