Which type are you?

[tommaney 0]

Thank you so much Jasmine for putting yourself out there and adding your perspective. You're always welcome to "ramble" : ) however you like on the other thread when you feel like addressing those cognitive and emotional factors that are intertwined with behaviors.

I'm not advocating excuse-making, but I believe that the healthiest change (i.e. change that doesn't involve transferring addictions or relapse) comes from working on body, mind, and spirit.

[Guest Leslie2Lose]

I lived in denial for years! My first excuse (along with 20 pounds) was "I'm supposed to gain 10-15 years in college". Secondly (another 30 pounds) came, "Well, I'm happily married now, so who cares what I look like, I've found my man." Third/Fourth (they go together along with the 50 pounds) - "I just haven't lost my pregnancy weight", after having both of my children." Then came the thyroid issue. I literally left the office and called my mom and told her I finally know why I am fat the day I was diagnosed. "My thyroid is screwed up." It was like I had to blame being fat on something other than me. Oh, I forgot to mention to her that stuffing my face and sitting on my ass for ten years may have had something to do with that. I didn't want to admit I was the problem.

I was always half-hearted in all of my weight loss attempts. I tried weight watchers (for years), yes lost the weight, but gained it back. I never made it a lifetime change. I always told myself - once I lose the weight I can go back to eating the way I wanted to.

One day I woke up and realised I was fat. It's weird - it wasn't that I wasn't aware of what I was doing at the time. I was aware - I just didn't care. I got into a depression and went through my daily routine and just lived with being miserable. My mother and father were concerned and tried to talk to me, but I denied the way I ate. It was like I was ashamed to admit I had a problem. My husband never said anything derrogatory towards me, but would give me looks as I would gorge myself and overeat. I'd tell him I'm fat anyway, so who cares so what is 10 more pounds.

You can have everyone in the world around you try to talk to you and try to get through, but until you admit you are the one with the problem you can't be helped. I learned that the hard way. Denial and excuses cost me years of happiness and living the life I want to live.

I woke up one day and decided I was tired of living a lie. I'd been lying to everyone around me for years. I'd been lying to myself even longer. I was sick and tired of being the "fat mommy", or the "chubby wife". I wasn't happy with myself and I know I wasn't a joy to be around for my family. I'd lost so many friends because I didn't feel like going out, or traveling or even talking to them on the phone. I was ashamed of me.

I'm still not 100% cured and I don't know if I ever will be. Obesity for me is as much of a mental disease as much as a physical. The mental part is something I struggle with daily. it helped me though when I finally took accountability for my fatness. Until then, I was a lost cause. I'm finally battling the physical part with the help of my band. It is only a tool to help me through this hard journey. The rest is up to me. Excuses done.

[OH Juli 15]

What I loved reading from Jahut, "my fat in remission" or some such thing. I feel like obesity is a disease that we control or it controls us.

Oh, so many thoughts....

I haven't written these words for about a year, but here goes.

There are three things that go into be successful. There's the physical change in ones body with the band; the behavorial changes, such as exercising or taking smaller portions of food; and congnative changes such as I will act or think differently about food's role in my life.

If a person plays with one and forgets the other two she is going to miss a big piece of this.

There's something to be said about living a life of ones own design and until a person bellys up to that hugely consiquencial decision it's easy to blame others for all the faliures. It's hard to take the praise for the successes as well. Too much of, "I still have more to lose" syndrome.

You know the message bears repeating because often times folks aren't receptive the first few times they hear things...so please keep the conversations flowing.

[BJean 16]

Leslie2lose: Wow, that was a powerful story. I could relate to much of it. I'll never forget the day my niece showed me a picture of me sitting on my sofa and I didn't recognize myself. Seriously. I asked her, "who is that?" Talk about denial!!

You sound very Enlightened, as does Juli and I am very impressed with you both.

[Jachut 487]

I love that analogy Juli, that's exactly what happened! A huge typewritten PB, lol.

I'm over my little tantrum now, I'm a grown up and fighting with others you dont even know online is kinda pathetic. I'm not gonna apologise, I feel well within my rights to say what I did, but yeah, I'm over it.

BJ, Dr Phil you sure aint. I overspent way before I got fat. And I aint talking about financial ruin here my dear, just not sticking to the budget. I'm not talking about my life in tatters.

Jack, great post. So true. I'm all for BEHAVIOUR and looking at our own choices. I'm not going to drop that line of thought, I believe it passionately and I think its the key to success not only with your weight but with your life.

Do you know, I went running last night, only 4 kms but that's coz I did it with my MOTHER!!!! She's 67 years old, she had a mild heart attack last year and is just on the tail end of healing a broken collar bone. She was never particularly unhealthy, she and Dad walked daily and carry no more extra weight than most 67 year olds do these days. But she's lost 12 kg, walked harder and further than EVER and felt she's feeling so fit she'd try a little run, since my sister and I (and now my youngest sister too) are getting so much from it. So she tried it and she could do it.

That's admirable. I'm sorry but I just cant find it within me to really empathise with the "plight" of a lot of people. That is within everyone's power if they want it. No excuses. It is. It need not be running of course, I'm speaking metaphorically, but its just there for the taking and if some decide not to take, then there's nothing I can do about that.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Jachut

[luluc 6]

As I’ve been reading this thread – I get why it was prompted. I didn’t have to dig down deep to figure out which type I was – I already knew: someone who LOVED food but STOPPED being active. The moment I stopped working out, the weight came on & I did not appreciate friends and family telling me I just needed to hit the gym again….duh, I knew that. But it was like Kat’s story, I decided for a period of time to feed the unhappiness “wolf” – and she loved Pasta & wine!!

Rock bottom comes in all forms – mine had to do with moving my size 6 clothes to a spare bedroom to make room for the 16’s…..and all the sizes in between and I was climbing up the scale DAILY.

Sometimes I feel guilty reading these threads because this has been easy for me. The diet – didn’t have to change too much, already ate decently (had to cut back some on the wine though). Exercise – can’t stress enough how important it was / IS for me to have back in my life. I’m pretty selfish these days, and for me that was probably the hardest part of band life for me. I constantly ran and took care of everyone & everything else, and I let myself not only go in the physical form – I shut down socially because I then became embarrassed by my weight.

So now I feed the Happy “wolf” (she gets wine 2 – just not as much) & I personally enjoy being fit & healthy a thousand times more than when I choose to ignore the sadness that enveloped me with the additional weight on.

[Jachut 487]

Yeah, I feed the happy wolf too, its not about complete self denial. And I'm selfish as hell with my time so that I get to do what I need to to keep me healthy.

You know, I'd like to add, that for me, its never been about "boasting" or "throwing my success in people's faces" as BJean said above. Far from it. It makes me nasty when people say it, just as I get nasty when people say "oh, but its different for you, you're x, y or z".

The passion behind my words has ALWAYS come from a sense of amazement. My message is very definitely "If I can do this, ANYBODY can". Its so true. I'm nothing special. I dont have superior strength, courage, Iron willpower, none of it. I was very much a fat person. You dont need ANY of that stuff that we all fear we're fundamentally lacking. Just a good ol dose of self honesty.

It really is so very simple. I know all our journey's are different, but still, after all of this debate, I still believe that I am just plain right on this one. It really is the key. It may need to be approached from different angles, but its what you have to do to beat a weight problem. When you really "get it" its like a miraculous discovery.

So some people get annoyed to log on and find normal weight people who have somehow defected and let the side down banging on round every forum about how fantastic they are. Personally, when I was a newbie, I hung onto every word that those who had lost well had to say. I really *WANTED* the bikini pictures, I was hungry for befores and afters. I didnt think they were boasting, I found it encouraging, uplifting and gave me a sense of yeah, I can really DO this.

Edited June 24, 2008 by Jachut

[OH Juli 15]

whys and hows Jack. Good stuff.

Jachut, I equate the "simple" you talk about with a switch being thrown. There was the before in the dark and the now in the light. It really is as simple as eat less and move more and it is as complicated as that...

But unless you are ready you can't touch the switch. You can look at it, you can deliberate over it, you can talk about the pros and cons of it, but actually doing it is daunting.

There's a term called self-efficacy, I know you're not too keen on the psycho stuff, but here's a go at it... it's that determinor of how a person deals with challenges and those that are self efficacious tend to believe they've got the tools it takes to deal with stuff, that when they get knocked down they get up more quickly, and all in all determine their own destinies. The flip side are those who lack that type of thinking, there's the belief that rallying to make change is difficult, when they don't succeed they are not surprised and it takes longer to restart again, also that the world happens to them, they do not happen to the world.

Now I'm not saying you are one way and the people who inspire your ire are the other, but perhaps, perhaps, perhaps?

(And my apologies to any professionals out there who know this better than I do. Please contribute your two cents.)

Edited June 24, 2008 by OH Juli

[tommaney 0]

Exactly, Jack.

re: Experience has demonstrated that "working" only on "why" without changing the "HOW I got fat" also leads to failure.

My experience counseling those with Opiate Dependency (e.g., Heroin, Vicadin) has demonstrated this concept. Clients were sometimes too entrenched in all the "why"s of their addiction to move forward, while others who solely worked on changing environment & behaviors would continuously relapse--even if those relapses occured years apart.

I'm not likening all lapbanders to drug addicts; this is a single interpretive lens. Take what you need from it and leave the rest. This is just what I've learned so far in my studies and clinical practice.

OH Juli-- That's Albert Bandura's Social Learning Theory. I like the self-efficacy concept. In fact, I believe the band has aided me in small steps to build my sense of self-efficacy. The healthier I become and the more I realize that I am able to control parts of my life, the more able I am to take on greater challenges and reap their benefits.

Edited June 24, 2008 by tommaney

[Jachut 487]

OK, now this is motivated by a desire to understand this, not a desire to start up another argument. Look, I think you CANT equate obese people with those suffering drug dependencies, even though I myself did it in another thread.

perhaps you're right Tommaney and people have to get to a certain place before they can face themselves. At least now we're on the same page.

So maybe I'm wrong and working out the why's is really critical. But I still dont think its the right why - the real why you need to tackle is "why do I choose to eat too much in response"? I still think you have the choice to say "I need to sort that, it needs resolution but right now today I'm going to go to the gym and bypass the KFC for lunch".

And I've never ever ever understood why having some awful happening in your past means you cant go out for a run or go to the gym.

Of course people relapse. We all do. But some people keep on going despite that, some fall in a heap.

I guess Juli you're right, some people are just "like that". They're probably the people I either actively avoid, just somehow dont click with or even dislike when I come across them in real life because patently, I'm not "like that" in my outlook. Which is probably why the people I've really enjoyed and connected to on here generally echo my thoughts, becuase they do have the same sort of approach.

The thing is people say "my cat died when I was four and that made me fat", they DONT say "my cat died when I was four and the way I chose to respond has made me fat". Its important to acknowledge that responsibility, even if it takes you years to deal with it, I dont think you can until you can acknowledge that you are responsible for your own behaviour.

I think there's at least LITTLE room for that no matter where in your journey you are.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Jachut

[JillyPoo 0]

The thing is people say "my cat died when I was four and that made me fat", they DONT say "my cat died when I was four and the way I chose to respond has made me fat". Its important to acknowledge that responsibility, even if it takes you years to deal with it, I dont think you can until you can acknowledge that you are responsible for your own behaviour.

I think that you have hit the nail on the head here for a lot of us. I know that I am generalizing. I know that it is me. I have been reading this thread and I don't always like to admit it but I know I am the reason. I know that by admitting that and facing it I will succeed. In the past I have always just delt with the stop eating and not the real problem...ME. I have been many times the person that says how unfair life is that I HAVE to work out and watch what I eat...*bangs head*. Duh, it should be that way anyway, to be healthy not just thin. And that is what my goal is this final time. To be healthier. Face that "wolf" head on!!

Cheers Jill

Not exactly everyones opinion...

[tommaney 0]

Jachut, I don't think this needs to be hammered into your head. I think you get it. " the real why you need to tackle is "why do I choose to eat too much in response"? " That's the Why I'm talking about. It can be incredibly helpful to gain insight into the origins of behaviors, but like Jack has mentioned too, that second component of responding with healthy behaviors needs to be sought out.

But, to clarify, I am not thinking of instances so trivial as "my lil' bro. ate my birthday cake" or "My cat died when I was four." I'm talking about "My mother sold me for drugs when I was 13 and I was subsequently gang raped multiple times." I've met that person. If that client comes to the realization that she's been overeating to clothe his/herself in a suit of flesh for protection from future violation, that insight can disempower the fear that was driving the behavior. I'm also thinking of serious emotional, physical, sexual, and neglectful abuse that can span decades of someone's life. I'm even talking about clinical diagnoses such as Major Depressive Disorder or Bipolar I or II that do not necessarily have past social etiologies--they are proven physiological experiences of chemical imbalances and seizures in the brain.

Here's the rub which I think we agree on: At the end of the day, once a person realizes that something somewhere is deeply wrong, he or she needs to get the gumption to seek help. Pursue therapy, seek help to re-write the story of a life that perhaps did not develop with the support it so dearly needed.

I put forth the particular example of the drug dependency only because this has been my professional experience to date, definitely not to equate. But the fact is, goals of therapy across theoretic orientations include the pursuit of thoughtful respose as opposed to impulsive reaction. In other words, work out why you're reaching for the KFC and let that knowledge empower you to generate new, healthier options.

Again, I think we're basically on the same page. Sorry for all the psych-talk. There are absolutely people for whom the behavior is the paramount issue. That's actually my present experience with the band, but I have been fortunate (and brave) enough to work on that "Why" before I got the band.

And yes, let's not tiptoe around each other--leaving room for each other will be quite good.

((Oops--sorry if any of this does not apply to your current #73 post--I was responding to the one that was sent to my email and I didn't realize it was edited till just now))

Edited June 25, 2008 by tommaney

[anonemouse 1]

Here's the rub which I think we agree on: At the end of the day, once a person realizes that something somewhere is deeply wrong, he or she needs to get the gumption to seek help. Pursue therapy, seek help to re-write the story of a life that perhaps did not develop with the support it so dearly needed.

I definitely agree with this. But I also think people need to realize that the "help" may not come in the form that they would prefer or that they want to hear, but that it doesn't mean that it's any less accurate. (Not speaking of professional help, of course, but rather the "help" they are seeking from their fellow members on this board.)

Even though I'm an Atheist, I really like the story of the guy stuck on his roof in a flood. I'm not sure I'll get this all correct, since it's been a while since I've heard it, so bear with me. I'm sure most of you have heard it, anyway. He prays for help, and a helicopter comes. He turns it down, saying, "God will help me." He prays some more. A boat comes, and he turns it down again. Etcetera, etcetera, so on and so forth. When he eventually drowns and gets to the Pearly Gates, he asks God why he didn't help him when he prayed for help. God says, "I did send help, you just didn't take it." When someone wants help and wonders what they're doing wrong, etc., and then shoots down every attempt to help or bit of advice given, people get frustrated. And eventually, they run out of help to give. When people aren't going to listen, there's no point in even reading their posts anymore, because all it is is more of the same. And it burns to hear people say that we aren't trying to help. We ARE, we just aren't saying what they want to hear.

[Jachut 487]

forgive me for the birthday cake and cat analogies, I really did not want to trivialise serious issues like assault or rape, there's no sensitive way to talk about those and I really am referring to people who use their dysfunctional relationship with their mother during their teens (I mean what womano DOESNT have that?) as an excuse, not people who are seriously ill or have really terrible issues to deal with.

I mean people who use things we've all gone through to excuse their behaviour now.

And Laurend has hit the nail right on the head. Help may not come in the form you want to hear it in. That's what angered me about BII, here she is asking for help, bemoaning her bad luck and then ever so politely rebuffing the wellmeaners.

I am really not meaning people who truly need professional help, more having a bitch about the bandwagon so many jump on these days "oh, yes, I have issues, I'm in therapy". Yaaaawn. I could have issues too if I wanted to make some up out of my perfectly normal past.

Its personality driven for sure, and it can be changed. My DH is an example. How he and I ever ended up together given the spectacular intolerance I have clearly demonstrated is beyond me. His whole family are a pack of whiners, much as I love them. They are just serial pessimists, everythign is going to turn out the worst possible way and dont they love it? Oh, the drama, keeps em going for days. DH was exactly like that. Five years ago, if you'd asked him he'd say our life was a disaster. He'd cite 17 years of marriage with no money, stuck in an awful outer suburban area, failing to achieve the career highs, the spectacular renovated inner city home and children in natty private school uniforms. He'd say all our friends surpassed us, we're the poor cousins. Ask me and I'd say "thank god I had those pretensions knocked out of me, I've got 3 great kids even though one wasnt even planned, we have our own home that we own outright, our area is so family friendly, I'm so happy with the small school we chose and we're healthy and happily married to boot. And we're describing the same life.

He realised I was happy and he was miserable. So he vowed to change. It took a lot of work, he was fighting his whole upbringing and personality type. But he's learned to stop the negative self talk and to approach things postively and he's no longer medicated for anxiety AND what do you know, when you do that suddenly the career breaks come because people dont think your a big moaning pain in the ass.

I'm talking about that sort of level of things, not really serious issues, and I really dont think I'd have anything valid to help someone who really did need that sort of help.

[chocolate_snaps 3]

I dont normally post on the RnR board, shoot I rarely read posts here (I havent even read this thread past the first page). BUT this time I must comment.

I totally agree with you Jachut, whole heartedly! While I dont have anyone on Lbt that I feel this way about, my personal life is littered with the kind of people you are talking about. Boy does it tick me off!

Someone very close to me is thinking about the band but has the total wrong tude about it. She sees me losing weight and admittedly not working extremely hard for it but I am exercising and eating right. She seems to think that the band is going to do all the work for her and she can just continue to eat crap and sit around all day. Its a little frustrating mainly because despite my insistence on her doing her own research, like I did, she refuses to. She makes every excuse in the world why she cant do the minimal amount of work. I doubt that will change after surgery.

I know someone else that claims her band didnt work for her but she eats crap, doesnt exercise, and doesnt get fills. She isnt facing truth about failing which is that she didnt do her research before or after surgery and she hasnt sought guidance from successful bandsters.

I also agree that some people need psych and should be doing serious work on themselves before having wls. I did and do! I did mountains of research and was an active member of LBT and multiple other sites before surgery. I started psych well before banding and it has been a big help with all of the issues I had with food and with the real issues.You know, the ones that issues with food were hiding. I have spent years working on me and it was time well spent.

Ive never really been a "just get over it" kind of person but like alot of things this too has changed. When it comes to this lapband tool, I think people should get off there rears and do the research, do the work, and stop making excuses.

I am in an a constant mode of self-enrichment. My choices to get therapy, my education, and my band are all means to that end.

Edited June 25, 2008 by chocolate_snaps