Who's the man Obama or MCcain?

[BJean 16]

P.S. YOU'RE the one who said that Bush is the devil. I didn't. And just wondering... is your point about Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs being so incredibly wrong supposed to make us think that then it's all right if another president pulls the same type of thing? Or does it make them wrong too?

Believe me I know people who believe that anything a president does in the name of national security is absolutely fine. Doesn't take them long to figure things out, does it? Right...

They're the same ones who think that anytime we confiscate illegal drugs, we should lace them with lethal chemicals and put it back out on the street. They say that'll eventually take care of the drug problem. Gets the users and the pushers in one fell swoop.

Nice. Real humanitarians they are.

[BJean 16]

And yes, I'll guarandamnteeyou that there will be some of the same folks in the White House if McCain gets elected. If you think the entire house will be cleaned from stem to stern, you're the one who's been buying the party line without thinking.

[plain 12]

Btw, do you say that I am regurgitating political talking points because I stand by what I believe in and have done my homework?

Nope. It's because you constantly refuse to back up any accusations you make. See, when you write "because some of the BS the McCain camp comes up with to justify his flip flops" but then don't provise examples, that sounds a little propagandish.

And what's this with confiscating street drugs, poisoning them, and re-selling them? That sounds like an absurd conspiracy theory. Can you even point me in the direction of somewhere to look to find out more about this? Was this on a website?

The thing is, I do appreciate your posts. Or rather, I appreciate the potential. I can tell you are a smart person, and could honestly debate the critical issues of this election. But for some reason, you won't. You fall back on the same old McCain = Bush arguement that is intellectually dishonest.

The way to recruit independant voters is to tell us what Obama will bring to the table. In what way are his policies superior to McCains? Don't spout emotional rubbish. Most voters are smarter than that.

[BJean 16]

Plain that was a very nice post. Thank you.

But hey, I believe what I believe. There's no policy here that says you have to trot out a bunch of links to prove your point. But I will say that some of what I was ranting about this morning, that you took exception to, was related to a couple of USA Today's articles and one of our local newspaper's editorials.

When I mentioned the McCain "camp" I was actually trying to be respectful to another person, by not mentioning names, who posted a diatribe about how McCain's position changes were due to the fact that he's grown and learned, and how that is a commendable trait and all. I probably shouldn't have tossed it into my post to you.

The street drug thing is a suggestion by some very good friends of ours (hard to believe, but true) who are extremely conservative and who are fed up with the cost of drug trafficking in the U.S. They actually think it's a good idea. They also think everyone in the U.S. should be issued a gun upon reaching the age of 18 and then taught how to use them and store them. In that way, the bad guys will know that we all have guns and will shoot back at them if they mess with us. I actually can see some wisdom in that, but I would never trust my fellow Americans enough to vote for it. They also believe that George W. Bush is a brilliant man and that his doofus antics are a clever ruse.

Now these people are highly educated and very well respected members of their community. They're very active in their Southern Baptist Church. In fact he's a deacon. He is also a top-level Vice President of one of the largest defense contractors in the U.S. So these aren't just some crackpot rednecks I'm talking about.

Some of the people's posts I read here at LBT on politics and laws and legislation sound like they might just embrace some of these wacky extreme right wing proposals. And I gotta tell you, it makes me kinda nuts.

So I vent here when I find it impossible to vent to some of our friends and continue to stay friends. It's my therapy. So I really don't feel compelled to justify my beliefs or my declarations to anyone.

However I am the first to admit that the way I write is a little confusing and since I'm so long-winded, people don't get the entire message, just parts of it here and there. Who can blame them?

I'm not trying to make you crazy. I'm just working on keeping myself sane. And I honestly do believe that Obama is the better choice. And I honestly do hope that he doesn't foul it up like Carter did. But right now, to get some relief from the past couple of Bush terms, I'm certainly willing to take a chance.

[plain 12]

these aren't just some crackpot rednecks I'm talking about.

That's cause they all live around me!!

[BJean 16]

:thumbup: Mind mentioning where you and them banjo pickers live?

(That's a joke. I have nothing against banjo players. In fact, I'm crazy about Steve Martin.)

[plain 12]

I'm in extreme northeast Texas. Not really Texarkana (I live about 45 minutes outside Texarkana, Tx) but that's the biggest, closest city. I get what you're saying about Steve Martin. Unfortunately, the banjo players around here are more "deliverance"-esque!!

[Totallytater 1]

McCain for sure! I'm very afraid of what Obama will do to this country.

[ReadySteadyGo 8]

Obama.

Globally- I want out of this war we should have never got into. Obama has been against the war and McCain hasn't. Therefore I am against McCain. I don't put much stock in political parties just political stances.

Selfish- I want to get married some day. Also, I don't think that the super rich deserve tax breaks for being super rich. So Obama- I'm your mama.

[BJean 16]

plain we're sort of in the same neighborhood. I'm not far from Dallas. I've been to Texarkana. Nice little town. A whole lotta them banjo pickers out in the boonies around there. Gotta be careful what you say about politics in that 'hood.

[BJean 16]

You're really smart for your age, RSG!

tarheeluv: What do you think Obama will do as president? I'm curious to know what you think we should be afraid of. I'm not being cute. I'm serious.

I know you may not be a registered Democrat, but I did notice that N.C. didn't go all out for him in the primaries. A respectable showing, but certainly not a landslide.

[clusk 0]

I followed politics for years and Obama is the real thing!

[ELENATION 0]

OK, I haven't been on line for a couple of days, so I apologize for this long post...

I do agree that Bush's people will leave when he leaves office, I couldn't imagine anyone staying, but maybe I'm wrong, why do you think this won't happen BJ? I'm just curious, maybe I haven't figured the whole thing out right...

I don't think it's fair when people say how crazy Bush was for saying that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, well the truth is that Clinton said that he was absolutely convinced given his years in the White House and the access to privileged information that he had, that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction until the end of the Saddam regime and that was his opinion as well before Bush took over, and many others claimed the same thing, so it's not like W.Bush woke up one day and just decided that they had the weapons and that he was in the mood to attack Iraq , The majority of the senate approved the intervention in Iraq, if indeed Hussein didn't have the weapons, at least we prevented him from getting these weapons and either using them himself or passing them to terrorists, because we all know he would've done it and there were also evidence that Hussein was connected with Al Qeida in other ways, I mean Hussein is definitely better dead than alive for the sake of Iraqis and the rest of the world and so IMOH that was a valid reason to go to war, I know that if I tried to explain this to someone who has lost a loved one in the Iraq war, my words may not make a difference to them and I completely understand and I don't blame them, I won't argue with that and my heart goes out to them, but from a general point of view, this is the way I see it and I know that I'm not the only one who agrees with this. The majority of soldiers also agree it wouldnt take 3 seconds for total restoration of Iraq, most soldiers that have serviced are happy with the work they have done and that they continue doing , they are so proud, and they believe it was worth it and they see the improvements , most don't feel it was a nonsense war or that it's a lost war, who would know better than them? They are there, they see all in details, they should know better than we do.... Of course mistakes have been made with the war, it's a war for Pete's sake, did anyone think it would all be perfect and we would handle everything flawless all the time? hey Hussein is not killing their own people anymore after-all...that alone a very good thing.

The majority of Iraqis are indeed grateful that the US liberated their country from a dictator murderer like Hussein, I have talked to so many americans that have served in Iraq and they all have told me that Iraqis are overwhelmed over the sacrifices that the Americans have done for them and their country and are extremely grateful, and their lives have indeed improved, I know that their infrastructure is not running great yet, that's why we need to stay there until the work is done, I know that the war has come at a high price in many levels, but did those who voted for the war think it was going to be some kind of a quick and easy task? I mean, did anyone at all thought it was going to be easy?

I also don't agree when some people say that they were lied to, so congress and senate were lied to and given some false info and these “inept and inexperienced” senators just believed it without giving it a second thought because they were so naïve... yeah right.. and because we have such an evil president along with a bunch of evil people in the white house that were able to lie to them and con them all...nah, don't think so, plus I hear all the time from most democrats that W.Bush is so stupid and a moron , so Bush couldn't possibly be smart enough to con so many people could he?….that would make no sense and it'd be contradictory.

I mean, 19 million people were liberated, was that not a good reason to intervene? I know, some people think we didn’t care at all for their people, but for the oil, well, I disagree, I guess I do have faith in our leaders, our government and the greatness of our country, call me a hopeless openhearted trustful girl…:biggrin2:

McCain said that he was in favor of pay equity for women, only this particular legislation opened us up to lawsuits for all kinds of problems, he also said that there are better ways to help women find better paying jobs by providing education and training, but if you take out of context what he said, then of course it’s going to sound harsh or wrong.

McCain employed a total of 69 people during the period ending in the the fall of 2007. Of the non-intern employees, 30 were women and 16 were men. After excluding the interns, the average pay for the 30 women on McCain's staff was $59K. The 16 non-intern males in McCain's office by comparison, were paid an average of $56K.

The average pay for the 33 men on Obama's staff who earned more than $23,000 (the lowest annual salary paid for non-intern employees) was $59K.

The average pay for the 31 women on Obama's staff who earned more than $23,000 per year was $48K. The average pay for all 36 male employees on Obama's staff was $55K and the average pay for all 31 female employees was $48K and this is according to data calculated from the report of the secretary of the Senate

Maybe female staffers on Obama's campaign are less qualified or less trained than the male staffers……or is Obama discriminating against his female staffers? :sad:You know, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and go with the first…

Republicans and Democrats have done the opposite of what they tell us they want , this has been the case often in history, nothing new... for either party…part of it is just the political game. Although I believe that some had the intentions of doing what they promised, but simply couldn't, others probably lied, but we can't single republicans out.

I’m pretty much convinced that Obama is just like any other politician, only not as experienced and maybe because he hasn't been around that long, it gives the impression that he is not the typical politician…

As far as the economy, I think he plans to return to the failed policies of high taxation with an expansion of government spending. I think not only he would increase the capital gains tax rate but also he wants to allow the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010, which for sure will raise taxes on americans by probably billions of dollars, and that wouldn't be good.

BJ, when you asked why would we want to keep this people in the white house, well I honestly don't think it's going to be any better if Obama is president. I don't believe he will be able to keep his promises without having even worse consequences for our country, maybe he does have good intentions ???:confused2: but frankly when I listen to him I feel that is saying absolutely nothing but just saying it very well... and so people feel a sense of hope, but many of his proposals sound unrealistic to me, and I think that they could make our economy even worse. OK, don't shoot me! I come in peace...:biggrin: no offense to any Obama supporter.

If I had to pick a candidate for the presidency based on the country’s financial issues alone, I’d probably pick Ron Paul, I mean he actually studied economics and it’s what drove him to politics. I think he realized that the government cannot legislate away the laws of supply and demand, but please take this with a grain of salt, finances isn’t one of my strengths :thumbup:, plus I wouldn’t vote for Ron Paul based on other issues…

And btw, I also think Obama will start getting to the center, and I don’t call it a sell out, it’s just being a politician, after all if one doesn’t behave like a politician, can they become one? So I will cut him some slack there too…

BJ, I agree that just because JFK screwed up Bay of Pigs, that doesn’t mean it’s ok if another president does it, it’s still wrong of course, crap happens though….

OK guys, gotta go, you all have a HAPPY AND SAFE 4TH!!!!!!!! and yes,i will miss the debate since I never go on line during the weekend..:thumbup:

Edited July 3, 2008 by ELENATION

[plain 12]

BJ, I agree that just because JFK screwed up Bay of Pigs, that doesn’t mean it’s ok if another president does it, it’s still wrong

No, of course it's not right. I only posted that because so many (mostly liberal) people want to skewer Bush for "meddling in other countries governments". Of course it's not right.....but Bush wasn't the first prez to do it.

Elenation...Ron Paul? Really? That dude's a kook (I mean it as kindly as possible). I understand that some of his policies sound good in theory....but many would just never fly in the real word (such as doing away with the IRS, and reducing the military to 10% of what we have now). I did not expect you to bust out the support for Ron Paul, LOL. Although strangely, in East Texas, Ron Paul has HUGE support.

[BJean 16]

Elenation, you win! Whew! I thought I was long-winded. You win in the longest posting of personal thoughts category. Go girl.

I have no desire to take each point and offer up rebuttal. But I will say, with all due respect, your powers of reason and logic astound me.