Who's the man Obama or MCcain?

[sistasassy 6]

I will be voting McCain. Long standing, very conservative republican and that's just the way it is.

As for drilling, why let the oil sit? We need it now and this earth has replenished itself for thousands of years. There will always be oil. We just have to find it. I am all for drilling here and drilling now.

Families need relief at the pump and they need it now. Most families are living paycheck to paycheck. Why should it all be spent at the pump?

[BJean 16]

No wonder you're as opinionated as I elenation - you had a strong father like I did. I'm glad you're bringing up your youngun's right too.

On the discrimination question: I reckon that if I did not vote for McCain because of his age, that would be age discrimination. I do believe that it is something people should consider but it isn't why I'm not voting for him. If I were a conservative Republican, it probably wouldn't stop me from voting for him and I would undoubtedly use your rationale.

We definitely have to declare an impasse as regards the Reagan years. When you aren't conservative, it is impossible to endorse the workings of such a conservative administration. I also know a lot of behind the scenes things that the mass media never brought forth. Those things certainly helped color my Reagan looking glass.

As a conservative, I imagine you're pleased with the Supreme Court's recent rulings. Since I am not a conservative, I am quaking in my boots. I'm sure that must bring a little smile to your face.

[BJean 16]

benhamgal: You believe that oil regenerates? You think there is a never-ending supply? And you think that even though there are much better alternatives out there that will not endanger our planet, that since we need oil, we should just keep drilling everywhere and tough doo-dee for the planet? Those are some mighty interesting declarations, dude. I'd love to know your sources for that information.

[MicheleK 8]

I'm going McCain, because I want to keep HC and her Universal Healthcare out of the white house. I don't want to end up paying VAT tax like they do in the UK.

Plus, McCain understands the military and how it works. I want our boys home just as much as the next person, but I feel we need to finish what we started.

[ELENATION 0]

No wonder you're as opinionated as I elenation - you had a strong father like I did. I'm glad you're bringing up your youngun's right too.

On the discrimination question: I reckon that if I did not vote for McCain because of his age, that would be age discrimination. I do believe that it is something people should consider but it isn't why I'm not voting for him. If I were a conservative Republican, it probably wouldn't stop me from voting for him and I would undoubtedly use your rationale.

We definitely have to declare an impasse as regards the Reagan years. When you aren't conservative, it is impossible to endorse the workings of such a conservative administration. I also know a lot of behind the scenes things that the mass media never brought forth. Those things certainly helped color my Reagan looking glass.

As a conservative, I imagine you're pleased with the Supreme Court's recent rulings. Since I am not a conservative, I am quaking in my boots. I'm sure that must bring a little smile to your face. :thumbup:

LOL! I take it as a compliment because I always think I'm not opinionated enough... so I'm glad you think I am!:thumbup: My dad was indeed a strong man, much stronger than I am for sure.... and the kids, well, sure they claim to be republican... I've brain washed them...:bored: but you know, it's cool how they both have their own individual thinking and they are not afraid of expressing it out loud, my oldest tends to be more conservative while my youngest is more liberal, sometimes they argue about gay rights, the environment, my baby is always standing up for every minority group..:thumbup:I like listening to them, it's interesting and a little funny and I try to stay out of it, most of the times....

Agree about Reagan, I fully understand that it would be very hard to endorse anyone from the opposite party when you feel so strong about yours.

And I'm glad that age wouldn't be the reason why you wouldn't vote for a candidate, I already knew that though about you.:wink:

About the Supreme Court rulings, yes, for the most part I'm happy with the decisions, I remember when I was reading about it there were a couple of issues that I didn't agree with completely, but frankly right now I don't remember what it was...:sad:, I'm conservative, but that doesn't mean I'm a fanatic of anything or that I don't think outside the box, I can be open minded and listen...:thumbup: but I know that most liberals think that way about conservatives..:thumbup: I think that's why I usually say I'm conservative, but not ultra conservative, it's my way of saying I'm not an extremist, but at the same time I'm not calling ultra conservatives extremists... I guess I don't know what the heck I'm saying anymore..:wub: I think I'm showing signs of my own insecurities...:wink_smile:

Edited June 30, 2008 by ELENATION

[BJean 16]

You are hilarious. The more I read your thoughts, the better I like you. I am glad to know that you are not ultra anything because there for a while on a couple of different threads I figured you for kind of an extremist.

I used to be more conservative than I am today. And it's funny. I've watched my kids and when they were younger, they were definitely declaring that they were Republicans. They thought that most of what they heard the Republican candidates say, was what they thought was right. (pardon the pun) Now that they are maturing and have been around long enough to see how the different parties actually operate, they have come around (all on their own) to see things more as I do.

That is to say that they think that the Democratic candidates care more about the environment and the less fortunate . And this administration and the war have done a lot to turn them completely off to anyone who runs as a Republican. The thing I respect about them is that they are actually doing their homework. They aren't taking anyone else's word for it.

I confess that I was on autopilot when I was young and I believed everything my parents said about politics. Which for them was true, but as time went on, things did change. They grew up during the depression and watched their parents struggle and go without. So their liberal leanings hinged a great deal on the fact that their parents were not affleuent, or even upper middle class. They were not dirt poor, but pretty darned poor.

When I started thinking more for myself, I spent a lot of time reading and watching how things unfolded and I wound up marrying a very conservative, religious, nearly perfect individual. Since I loved and respected him so much, and since our livelihood benefitted from a more Republican political position, I eased away from my parents politics and closer to my husband's.

Now I believe I have truly come into my own. I have stopped worrying so much about what everybody else thinks and I'm not afraid to argue for what I believe is true. The war and having Bush in the White House greatly aided my husband's business (and my pocketbook) but I still believe that this administration has it all wrong.

So it is no contest for me. I believe what I've read of Obama's. I believe that he is sincere when he is says what he wants to do. And I believe that what he wants to do is the right thing.

Now someone like Jack will tell you that it doesn't really matter that much who is president. And I understand his point completely. My DH would agree with him. However I have witnessed both parties being in the White House, with and without Congress being of the same party, and I can tell you that it does matter.

As I have said before, if you like the things that this administration has accomplished in the past 7 years, then I think you should vote for McCain. If you do not like the way things have gone, then I don't think you have any choice but to vote for Obama if you truly want your vote to count for something. The other thing I want to say is that even if he has less experience than McCain, he is certainly not the first young and relatively inexperienced man to become president and I believe in taking a chance on him and the hope he brings to the White House, especially when the alternative is so obviously not what I believe is right for this country.

And the last thing I'll say elenation is that I respect your viewpoint and I wish more people gave this election as much thought as you have.

[ELENATION 0]

LOL! You had me laughing with the way you say somethings too!:frown:

I know that when I feel very passionate about something I sound like an extremist:crying: and I don't blame you for thinking that, sometimes I have to re-examine myself...gee..... but no, I'm not really an extremist, like abortion, no I don't like or want abortion, only in cases like rape, incest or if a life is at risk, so that makes me pro-life or against abortion, but that doesn't mean that I don't listen to someone that is pro choice and that they have many valid points and I hate, HATE the abortion discussion because it's so hard for me, I end up feeling bad for everyone involved and I feel that nobody wins, so everytime I get involved in an abortion debate I end up running out of words and not knowing what to say anymore, then I think, well, maybe my own arguments are not strong enough, but when I think about it all over again, then I still end up feeling the same way... I know weird....

When it comes to politics, I'm not sure if I sound extremist, but I don't think I'm that bad...

I can usually discuss it with others peacefully ,I have democrat friends, co workers and we joke about it and talk about it no problem... sure I get passionate and all, but it's not horrible...

BTW, thank you for telling more about yourself, I can now understand where you are coming from more, plus I like learning more about you! very interesting too!

I also admit that I followed my parents, specially my dad's political views religiously for a while, then after my dad passed away I started looking into it with a more opened mind, I can tell you that I don't think either party is perfect or even close to it and sometimes I feel like giving up and totally agreeing with Jack and agreeing that it doesn't really matter who's president, let me tell you, he has a good point....seriously, but I guess deep inside I can't truly agree with it. It's only recently and I mean the past few years that I've paid closer attention to the Congress being on the same party or the opposite and I will agree with you, it does make a difference, I don't know if it's a huge difference though, but worth to recognize it at least.

Growing up in a communist country had a huge influence in the way I feel politically, I feel very strong on foreing policies, stronger than domestic policies, not that I don't care about our domestic issues, of course I do, but if I absolutely had to choose, I go with a strong foreign policy, the good thing though is that I don't have to choose:biggrin: I'm so glad I live in America!

After some soul searching and some more researching I still came back to my roots... and I'm a republican, I know that from the democrat's point of view, I'm not the typical republican...an immigrant, came here with nothing, went from poor to just middle class,working very hard, I'm far from being wealthy, being hispanic I obviously belong to a minority group, I got a taste of the immigration laws/system twice, when I came here and when I brought my mother here 13 years later, you would think that I should have a lighter view on illegal immigration.... but I don't, it took me 14 years to make it here, even with my father being an american citizen and a WWII veteran.. and then it took me 13 years to bring my mom, but both times legally, actually I think I've been the "less fortunate" for a while, even though I consider myself so fortunate just to be able to live here today and for the fact that my children were born here,

The thing is that in my opinion when democrats say that the republicans are for the rich for instance, now a days I believe this is an idealistic argument, I've seen the rich get richer under both administrations, I remember during the Clinton's administration those high tech stocks made lots of new billionaires, CEO compensation was upward far faster than rank and file salaries during the Clinton era... I'm thinking back in the early 80's one of my first jobs was in banking and the economy was just so horrible after Carter, I won't blame it all on him, but much I do... at least from my perception, I say this humbly because I'm no financial expert.

I can say that Bush has made mistakes about the war, I think he could have used a different tone or a different rhetoric because many view him as the guy really anxious for war in Iraq, but I honestly believe his intentions were good, there, I said it, ok, please everyone now step back, don't shoot!

I think that he does get blamed for every single thing going wrong in the country, but like I said before, no president has ever been perfect. I don't like war, only when absolutely necessary which I think sometimes war is the only answer unfortunately... but we are in Iraq nowand I feel that we need to finish and win it.

I don't feel too comfortable in taking a chance with an inexperience candidate, I can't even put it into words why... but I just feel that there is too much too risk, specially with our foreign policies, then again for the democrats who are so unhappy now, taking a chance seems like a good thing and I can see where there are coming from, maybe if it was the other way around I would feel the same way, who knows...:confused2:

Ok, I have to go... BJ, I also respect your viewpoint!.. and appreciate our debate very much, I'm not as good as you:confused_smile:, but I'm learning more from our discussions.

Edited June 30, 2008 by ELENATION

[di1138 8]

Neither, they're both bad choices. Obama has no experience and McCain has too many favors to return.

I'm going to write in someone.

Please dont do that! Read up on the polices of the two candidates and pick the one closes to your views. Hopefully it will be Obama. :biggrin2:

[di1138 8]

I will be voting McCain. Long standing, very conservative republican and that's just the way it is.

As for drilling, why let the oil sit? We need it now and this earth has replenished itself for thousands of years. There will always be oil. We just have to find it. I am all for drilling here and drilling now.

Families need relief at the pump and they need it now. Most families are living paycheck to paycheck. Why should it all be spent at the pump?

HUMMM the reason we are living paycheck to paycheck and losing jobs paying high price for gas is because we have a republican in the white house who has brought this all one...War ring a bell?

[plain 12]

HUMMM the reason we are living paycheck to paycheck and losing jobs paying high price for gas is because we have a republican in the white house who has brought this all one...War ring a bell?

Huh? Saywhatnow?

[ELENATION 0]

Huh? Saywhatnow?

Holy crap! I must join you and say what???????

Edited July 1, 2008 by ELENATION

[BJean 16]

Yeah. Don't worry about the economy if we have another Republican president. Things are just fine, thank you very much. This war hasn't cost us anything. Besides, it is just so important that we found and destroyed those weapons of mass destruction that bombed the World Trade Center on 9/11. So we need to keep at it. It has been such a wonderful success story - this war in Iraq. We've nearly killed all the terrorists in the world. We've restored peace in Iraq and killed their former leader (who we helped put in place) and his sons. Now the infrastructure in Iraq is all up and running again and all the very fortunate Iraq citizens have a much, much better life because of our presence in their country. And we keep pouring billions into their country every week. Naaaaah, it has nothing to do with OUR economy.

And another really swell reason to support McCain is because we can believe everything he tells us. Well, some will admit that he has done a 180 degree flip flop on some issues, but it's only because he's learned and grown. Wait, say what now?

That's why he's now accepting thousands of dollars in contributions from the very people he condemned in the last election for being dishonest and dishonorable (his words) when they put out tons of lies about John Kerry's war decorations.

That's why he changed his mind about supporting women's right to choose. Now he's for taking women's rights away and putting them in the hands of his fellow right wing Republicans.

They didn't use to be his fellow right wing Republicans. He used to criticize them and had the gumption to buck the extremely conservative positions of his own party. Not any more. Today he needs their votes and their money in order to get elected, so the gumption and strong convictions that we're supposed to think that he got when he was a veteran, no longer applies.

Say what? Yeah. That's exactly what I'm sayin'.

[BJean 16]

This morning I am a little less generous about people's choice to vote for McCain. This race just keeps revealing more and more reasons why Obama is the only right vote in this election.

I can appreciate why people are conservative and why they think that the Democrats represent more government and higher taxes. My gosh, take a hard, really honest, look at what the Republicans have done and are proposing to continue! In too many cases, they have done exactly the opposite of what they tell us they want.

No well maybes, explain to me exactly how conservative or not you can honestly keep these people in the White House.

[plain 12]

Um, keep who in the white house? Can you name a single person that will not leave with Bush? Or is this more mindless party-speak? Because I have to tell you....anybody with half a brain knows these issues are a little more complicated that you're trying to paint them.....Oooooh, We put Hussein in power, and then overthrew him!! OMG!! Bush must be the devil to do that!! Except that JFK did the exact same thing with the "Bay of Pigs" fiasco (some would say Bay of Pigs was worse, since he aborted US support at the last minute, leading to the slaughter of thousands of revoultionaries). Ok, Swiftboaters.....I think if you'll look back at McCain's condemnation of the swiftboaters, it centered on the fact that they (rightly or wrongly) were insulting a serviceman's record. In other words, what Obama's camp did to McCain.

Has McCain ever said he supports overturning Roe v. Wade? Even now, when he needs to appeal to the more conservative of the party? Nope. He's never said that.

I'd prefer it if you stuck to some facts, BJean, instead of regurgitating some liberal talking points. I wonder how you'll feel when Obama moves more towards the center as the campaign approaches? Will you continue to support the man, or will you dismiss him as Obama-zero (as the Huffington post just did)?

[BJean 16]

plain I just hate it that you don't appreciate my posts. It just ruins my day.

McCain actually called the Swift Boat people dishonest, dude. Sure it was for his own personal political reasons, but I certainly respected him for doing it. But he fixed that.

And you're right, I've never heard McCain say the words that he supports overturning Roe v. Wade. But that's nitpicking. He went from saying he believes in women's rights to now dancing around the issue and supporting what he thinks will get those right wingers to vote for him and give him campaign money.

And yeah, if Obama sells out before the election, then I probably won't vote. Doesn't that just rile you to no end?

Btw, do you say that I am regurgitating political talking points because I stand by what I believe in and have done my homework? Because some of the B.S. the McCain camp comes up with to justify his flip flops over the past few years is a little vomitus maximus if you ask me.