Does your doctor recommend high protein/low carb?

[Jachut 487]

Sorry, I dont like to be argumentative but that's all a bit nonsensical.

there is one purpose of the pre surgery Optifast diet and it is not to "shock" the body into anything. Its to shrink the liver. the reason it shrinks the liver is because its low carb/high Protein - this leads to massive shedding of Water weight (since every carb molecule holds 4 Water molecules with it) and depeletes the liver of all its glycogen, so it shrinks. It is in no way healthy for you and it does not shock your body into letting go of fat. You do not lose much fat in 2 weeks on Optifast, you lose water. You're eating 800 calories a day, to reduce body fat and maintain lean body mass, you need to EAT, on 800 calories a day your body will have to let go of some of its lean mass. So you're right on that one. If you keep up Optifast over a period of months, of course you will lose a lot of fat - also a lot of water and a lot of muscle. Have you ever seen anyone who's lost to goal on a diet like that - they look appalling.

I'm not denying though that losing 14lb of WHATEVER in 2 weeks isnt motivating right before WLS. It feels awesome. But your body has not somehow been primed to lose weight well. In fact so many people are disappointed that after surgery it doesnt fall off like they expect - precisely becuase they're already totally glycogen and water depeleted from the pre op diet.

Sodium does increase water weight. But in the overall battle against obesity, water weight is irrelevant. If your body suddenly lets go of 4-5lb, mine does too, after your period, you havent suddenly lost fat. Fat loss is a slow process that takes a long period of time and over the course of losing 100lb, expecting to see it coming off every week is pretty unrealistic.

Those are different issues to whether you need a low carb/high Protein diet for weight loss. There's credible information to support BOTH sides of that argument, and I think we have to work out for ourselves what fits our lifestyles, suits our bodies etc.

Edited December 12, 2008 by Jachut

[sara7venus 0]

Ummm ... Yeah ... You do sound argumentative. The idea, as described to me by my *surgeon* is to get the liver to shrink, and to get the body into a weight-loss cycle. Whatever your surgeon has described to you may be different; I'm just communicating what has been told to me by the various healthcare providers in my life. It is your opinion, and your opinion alone, when you say that eating low-carbs/opti-fast before surgery "is in no way good for you". Having a fatty liver is, in fact, bad.

Look it up in Wikipedia if you don't believe me.

I'm pretty sure this isn't a good place to be arguing opinions of various doctors on different continents. That discussion could likely be had in a different forum.

[Jachut 487]

Widipedia? Are you serious?

Oh boy.

Yes, having a fatty liver is bad for you. That's what justifies putting your body through Optifast for 2 weeks. Surely you're not seriously suggesting that long term Optifast is the way to lose fat, preserve your lean body mass and end up in glowing good health?

I would guess that if your surgeon suggested that Optifast somehow magically prepares your body for losign weight, what he meant was that the huge Water loss on the scale is rather satisfying and motivating and a great start to your new life. Not that some miraculous science occcurs. its simply starving yourself of calories therefore you lose weight. Same as anything else.

This thread was originally about what different doctors suggested, why not discuss it here?

Edited December 12, 2008 by Jachut

[Jodi_620 37]

I know for sure that my pre-op diet primed me for weight loss. It got the carbs out of my system and got my blood sugar levels down. Keeping the bad carbs out of my diet has kept the head hunger away because I am not having blood sugar spikes and dips that cause us to crave more. I still get a healthy diet by getting my carbs from fruit, dairy and some whole grains.

No matter what diet we would go on there would be Water weight loss in the beginning, believe me, I have tried them all and I have seen it every time. I agree that the majority of pre-op diet weight loss is Water weight. That is not the point though. The weight loss around the liver really can't be measured with the scale. Your liver is considered to be fatty if 10% of it's weight is fat. Considering a healthy liver only weighs around 3 pounds we would only be looking at a scale loss of .3 lbs. of fat. Seems like a minuscule amount but it is still necessary to get rid of it to avoid problems during surgery. When we diet, the first place for the fat (not water) to leave the body is from around the liver, low carb high Protein allows that to happen faster that is a fact. I think that doctors want their patients to take the fastest way out to ensure that they will be successful and not take risks with a fatty liver. Add to that the fact that it does prime you for the post-op diet and it helps with carb addiction, a large source of failure for many people who are trying to lose weight, and I can see why it is a preferred method for many doctors. That is not to say that low fat, low calorie or whatever other diet you prefer wouldn't also work, it just would take a little longer.

Low carb does not cause muscle loss, low fat/low Protein does. Protein aids in fat loss and preserves your muscles. It also keeps us full longer. For the most part I've seen that most US doctors recommend 60 grams of protein per day. I wouldn't consider that to be terribly excessive the USRDA goes by age, sex and other factors but the average range recommended daily is around 50-55 grams anyway. So most doctors are not so much telling us to eat too much protein as they are telling us to be sure that we make sure we are getting enough.

Edited December 12, 2008 by Jodi_620

[sara7venus 0]

Jacqui - More argumentative blather to cheer everyone up - thanks for that.

As my previous posts will evidence, I never mentioned once that "my doctor told me he was putting me into some magical weight loss mode". I also never suggested that staying on Opti Fast long-term was a healthy choice. If you're here to put words in others' mouths, then I graciously ask you to please keep it to yourself.

Thanks, but no thanks for the suggestions. I'm all about having constructive conversation; when I start to feel insulted, that's where I draw the line.

Edited December 12, 2008 by sara7venus
Redundant "Thanks" in the beginning

[HeatherO 7]

I think both Jachut and sara7venus have valid points.

Optifast for liver shrinking is indeed important for a limited time, not long term. Loss of Water weight, although motivating and a lot of this journey is in our heads, is really not fat loss and is of minimal value. I do think Optifast does help to get us in the right mindset for weight loss by helping to get rid of sugar cravings and reintroducing food slowly helps us to get used to eating differently.

As far as being high protein/low carb - there are some differences between the US and Australia, but I really don't think they are much different in substance if you pick apart the general themes.

Eating enough Proteins and appropriate Vitamin intake is essential for either continent. Highly processed, superficial carbs are not suggested for anyone anywhere who is banded (it is also not great for those who are not banded, or for children).

Healthy carbs in fruits, vegetables, whole grains are good for everyone as long as you are getting enough Proteins and Vitamins overall without overdoing the calories. White Wonder bread from the local American supermarket doesn't really do much for you nutritionally. A hearty whole grain bread with plenty of Fiber does indeed have nutritional benefits.

So we are essentially on the same page with discussions with some differences in opinion. Why are we getting so bent out of shape???

What is the purpose of a forum? It is a place for open discussion of topics. There are going to be different opinions and I think it is healthy and good to debate. However, we should respect that people have different opinions without becoming so upset.

I think complaining about people's "argumentative blathering" and telling people to go argue their different opinions on a different forum is not helpful, it is defeating the purpose of a forum.

Wikipedia is not the best source of medical information, but you can look up "internet forum" for a better understanding of the purpose of a forum. If it is important not to hear other peoples opinions . . . why not start a blog instead of posting on a forum?

I enjoy active discussion and this is my favorite forum because we tend to stay nice and friendly for the most part. There are other forums that I don't go to anymore because of the barbed comments, or your opinions are stupid, and my surgery is better than your surgery, and on and on. Can't we just be nice to each other???

[sara7venus 0]

Thanks, Heather. I think you're right, and I'm glad that there are some people using this message board to be positive.

[Jachut 487]

Oh for pete's sake Sarah, grow up!

I say heaps of positive stuff on this board, I just happened to disagree with YOU. In my opinion you were stating highly questionable opinion as if it were fact and it was misleading. I objected is all. And then I objected when you said that I could find proof on Wikipedia.

Like Heather says, if you cant take being disagreed with and choose to take it as insults, get a blog instead.

[lellow 1,713]

okay to get back on topic,

I, like Jachut, eat whatever I want, just less of it, as instructed by my Australian Dr. I eat white bread, I eat rice, I eat Pasta, but I also eat meat, and veg and I even sometimes have a cookie if I feel like it.

I don't count calories (so no, I have no idea how many calories I comsume a day), I don't weigh my food, my band controls my portions for me.

I exercise 4 times a week at intensities that ensure I'm sweating buckets and panting from being out of breath, and with this approach I've consistently lost 3kgs (10lbs) or more a month.

I also never feel like I'm on a diet, and I know I'll be able to sustain this for the rest of my life. I don't feel deprived of anything either, which I love about being banded. I have lots of energy and IMO, the way I eat makes me feel like a 'normal' person, in that I am not constantly avoiding certain foods. The best part of the band, too, is that in not avoiding any sorts of foods, I've lost interest in many of them, effectively killing off most of my head hunger. :tounge_smile:

Knowing that I could have fried chicken or chocolate if I wanted to, I tend to think 'oh I'll have it another day when I'm really craving it' and usually, I don't end up craving it!

Edited December 21, 2008 by lellow

[MacMadame 81]

My surgeon recommends a high Protein, low carb diet because in the thousands of surgeries they've done, the patients who follow this diet do better than the patients who do not when it comes to losing weight and getting to goal.

Their EWL stats for the band are 10-20% higher than published averages. So clearly it's working.

New research into nutrition and dieting supports the low carb approach as the best way to lose weight whether you've had surgery or not, btw.

I am happy to eat like this until I get to goal and then add in more carbs. Since my surgery, food doesn't interest me that much anyway, so why not eat what they say and lose faster and more? That's my philosophy, anyway.

[sara7venus 0]

MacMadame,

Great informed response! I know what you mean about not being interested in food very much. I can't believe how the focus of my life has shifted since I had this surgery ...

I tend to eat low-carb, because I feel better when I eat less sugar. I have an occasional piece of bread here and there, and once-in-a-while I eat something with, say, barbecue sauce on it (that's not exactly low carb...).

I know that there are those out there who claim that low carb is just a "quick fix", and that as soon as one introduces carbs back into one's diet that the weight will just come right back on.

As someone who has been living a relatively consistent low-carb *lifestyle* (it isn't a "diet") for several years, I can honestly say that I have more energy, am less hungry, and can concentrate a lot better when I make low-carb food choices. Also, if I choose to introduce *one serving* of something with a lot of carbs, I don't feel the negative effects like I would if I had been eating a "high-carb, low-fat diet". Low-carb, lean-Protein works the best for me, so far, and I only feel the negative effects of high-carb foods if I keep eating them for more than a couple of days. Otherwise, it's all good.

I also believe that different people have different nutritional needs, so some people may not do well on lean-protein and low-carb. It's just my take on something that has been working for me for many years.

Happy new year, everyone!

-Sarah H.

[daddystarbucks 0]

Yes and I am currently using the kimkins diet plan. I have no complaints other than I really miss non-diet sodas!!:cursing:

[Jodi_620 37]

Yes and I am currently using the kimkins diet plan. I have no complaints other than I really miss non-diet sodas!!:wink:

daddystarbucks,

Just curious, do you have the Lap Band or are you just following the kimim thing? It is just that none of your posts mention your being banded nor does it seem that you have had to follow any band related rules (ie shrinking the liver or not drinking any carbonated drinks)

[MacMadame 81]

KimKins is a scam.

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Timeline of the Kimkins Diet Scam Story

[gingerbug 3]

My doc stresses not to do a HP/LC. He wants us to eat protien first, then a healthy veggies, then starchy foods like potatoes, etc. I get lots of Protein but a surprising amount of fat and my fat intake is coming from fish, Peanut Butter, olive oil, avocados (yum). I find that even my worse cravings can easily be solved with a generous spoonful of peanut butter. Since starting to include these kinds of fat my hair and skin look great, btw.