Come out of the band failure closet!

[brandyII 9]

i have had band problems since march 2008. i gained 5 lbs in march then in april i lost the 5 lbs that i had gained. but my dr thought that my band was too tight so he loosened it and now i have gained about 15 lbs back.i am back where i started in october 2007 and i am so frustrated right now that i dont know what to do.

Thanks for sharing dJarnold. That's pretty much how my weight came back on too. I've read where it's just not right for everyone. Not saying that you should give up yet but how long do we wait. I didn't expect to gain back everything and not loose, no one wants that!

Thanks brandyII

[MerryHearted 20]

I know where you're coming from... one big fear almost everyone has going into this is "will I fail to lose weight and keep it off YET AGAIN, even with something this drastic?"

And we like to encourage everyone by saying "hey, it works! it'll work for you too!"

I'm sorry that the banding hasn't worked for you... hopefully you can rally up some support from others who are in the same situation, and be able to move forward with a revision or whatever you need.

I know why we resist these posts on the regular support board - we think "wait -- let's examine behavior and band fill levels before we assume band failure", because most of the time, the non-weight-loss is fixable with some adjustments. And that can come off as criticism, unfortunately.

I'm assuming that you are talking about those of you who, despite following the bandster eating rules & exercising, just aren't losing. It does happen! There have been several people over the last few years on here who have had this problem. Like you pointed out, the medications you take might have an impact. Vinesqueen, it turned out, had Cushing's which prevented her from losing, and I'm sure there are others with medical issues that will face stumbling blocks.

Best wishes on figuring this out. We all deserve to find a way out of this obesity trap, whether it's banding, the sleeve, RNY, DS, or something non-WLS related altogether.

[brandyII 9]

Thanks Molly Molly, you look so happy in your picture, no one could ever be mad at you!

I guess some of us just can't be as compliant either so that is something to take into consideration but why some can be compliant and others can't. I mean if I could have been compliant without the band I wouldn't really need it. I guess like I've heard some people say some are more or less bulk eaters so the band is like heaven to them and those are the types of people that it can really help. I wasn't like that.

Everyone has their own story etc...about why they're obese but everyone is different I guess and maybe I didn't take that into consideration when I was getting banded. Naturally I passed the psyche eval and and everything else and lost the 10% of my bodyweight prior to surgery on the four week Medifast shake diet so thought I was good to go but I was wrong. I am looking now into a revision, researching that is, God knows if it would be covered or if my surgeon or his team would do it but I've heard some people say that the DS is the best surgery for a person like me.

Anyway thanks for the words of encouragement and you've done really well and I'm happy for you! brandyII

[plain 12]

Brandy II - I think people who haven't lost weight with the band may be a bit embarassed....or a bit ashamed.....whatever. I think I told you earlier that if somebody is giving you flack on this board then Eff them! Personally, I haven't seen many posts like you're describing, but I don't read every post, either.

I did once try to explain to a pre-WLS noob that the band wouldn't really help that much with "head hunger", and was kind of shouted down by an angry mob (heehee), but that's the most I've seen with that sort of thing.

When I first got banded, I was a little judgemental of people that would post stuff like "I can eat whatever I want - Help!" because they obviously were ignoring the rules....but I've re-thought that stance a little: See, everybody that gets banded pays their money, and ends up paying the pain price (not very painful, sure, but still.....it's not exactly pleasurable). And if somebody goes through that and wants to break the rules, now I think that's their business. I'll not rebuke somebody for making their own choices.

[BJean 16]

I have found that having too much restriction is as bad as having no restriction at all and in some cases, WORSE! That doesn't make sense to those people who haven't experienced it, but for me having too much restriction made me not only hungry because I wasn't getting enough real food (protein) but it also made me crave things that didn't make me PB - all things that felt good going down, like ice cream and crispy things like tortilla chips. I've always been an ice cream freak, but never been a fan of chips. Go figure.

When I first had the band I was doing the diet exactly as it was given to me by using sugar-free/fat-free Jello, low-fat yogurt, low-fat/low-sodium Soups and suger-free popsicles. Occasionally I had low-fat cottage cheese with canned pineapple. Sure you'll lose weight if that's all you eat. But once I started eating real food, I gained weight. Not because I was eating massive quantities of food mind you. I just wasn't eating all low-fat/non-sugar stuff.

Since I've had the band I have never had a soft drink. I don't consume much caffiene at all. I try to eat only nutritious food and still I get hungry - both in my head and in my tummy. If I am really restricted I eat ice cream products and the occasional order of nachos. What I need to do is go back to the original post surgery diet (as I listed above) and I would take off another 20 lbs.

Part of the problem is that I've lost enough weight to feel better and take myself out of the painful state that I was in, pre-surgery. I wear cuter clothes, I feel lighter and my medical status is better. Not being in that kind of pain, I am having trouble being as motivated as I was when I got the band. I think this syndrome is common with many bandsters but not too many of them want to write about it and admit that they might be failing at this weight loss game - AGAIN - in spite of having surgery!

I do think that the sleeve has been more effective with my doctor's patients who have had the band replaced when they reached the state that I'm currently in. I haven't talked to one of them who hasn't gone on to lose a lot more weight. But I personally don't think I'm ready for another surgery and I think the jury may still be out on the safety of the sleeve.

I know how frustrated you must be, Brandy. Especially when you read posts and see photos of people who have had enormous success with the band here at LBT. I know I went through I time when I almost hated to come here, but I couldn't stay away. I was embarrassed and I felt quite lonely and the major failure I had always thought I was. But I'm beginning to feel better, although I'm sure not out of the woods, and I have high hopes that I can turn this downswing around and actually get to my goal. And by the way, my goal is higher than a lot of people think it should be, but I've played this diet game long enough to know that I have to be realistic or I'll never win!

Have you had a frank discussion with your doc about your options? Does he/she have any ideas about why the band hasn't worked for you? Or is he/she one of those stupid folks who blame you for not having enough self-control? That, by the way, is not why your band hasn't worked for you. If your band was working properly, you'd be doing better. Keep me posted. For some reason, Brandy, I feel as if you and I are kindred spirits.

[BJean 16]

plain: I agree with you. I think you're right when it comes to "head hunger" for most of us. But if the band is placed properly we should be able to use it as a tool and have it work for us. Physically we are all different. Not only that but our doctors are all different. How in the world can we possibly expect to all have the same outcome?

I believe that it is far more complicated than just accusing someone of having "head hunger" and no real will-power. We all want very much to be thinner and healthy. We sure wouldn't have gone through what we have if we didn't. But there are lots of complicators that no one has studied and no one can explain. And having the band is not the same as going on another diet. The band has an effect. It is very possible that it can have a detrimental effect - it could actually cause hunger in some people and it could be actually causing depletion of some Vitamins or nutrients that is responsible for sabbotaging us. We're always so quick to blame ourselves for our lack of succes, we don't even consider the possibility that it is much more complicated than just self-control and will-power.

Btw, I am NOT referring to you when I say we are quick to judge others. I mean doctors, family, friends and even ourselves. If this diet game were simple, there wouldn't be a billion dollar industry constantly pumping out pills and "solutions" to the problem. Don't you agree?

[susansilver 0]

My thoughts on this: Although "head hunger" is mentioned on this forum somewhat, there is not a lot of depth on the subject. Most people will say find a hobby, take a walk instead of eating or some such thing. Frankly, I think that is nonsense. I am a food addict. It could have been drugs or alcohol or gambling, but in my situation, it is food. Now, I am not a believer in 12 step programs because "abstinence" and "willpower" dont work for any significant length of time. If it did - we would not be obese.

I lost 40 lbs immediately before and after my surgery. Then I hit the wall. My business life became a very tenuous situation and there were crises in my family as well. I fell into a depression and bam - stopeed taking care of myself. That meant eating around the band (I can so relate to the ice cream and tortilla chips), not monitoring my blood sugar - I too am diabetic on insulin. I also like you take meds for high BP and an anti-depressant/anti anxiety meds. I am also 48! (are we some sort of weird crosss border twins) hahaha.

Anyways, I gained back 15 lbs and of course became even more depressed. I went to see my GP one day in February because I had back problems and wanted a doctors note so that my insurance would cover my physio. I broke down in her office and she was so alarmed. She told me I need helpp immediately and recommended a good therapist. (At that time the psychiatrist I was using only prescribed - no therapy). I was so desperate, I called and started to see this wonderful therapist. She recommended some reading and at the same time I picked up some books on addiction. I realized that my addiction, any addiction needs to be looked at for the root causes.

With encouragement from my therapist, I called my clinic, got a fill and have been taking baby steps back. I haven't gone into a major exercise program. I don't count calories or anything like that, but I don't try to eat around the band anymore and I fllow rules like no drinking immediately after meals. I have lost 13 of those lbs.

I am sorry this is so long! What I really want to say is that of course the band may not be for everyone, but sometimes we must dig DEEP to find out why it is not working for us.

I wish you all the best,

[brandyII 9]

Brandy II - I think people who haven't lost weight with the band may be a bit embarassed....or a bit ashamed.....whatever. I think I told you earlier that if somebody is giving you flack on this board then Eff them! Personally, I haven't seen many posts like you're describing, but I don't read every post, either.

I did once try to explain to a pre-WLS noob that the band wouldn't really help that much with "head hunger", and was kind of shouted down by an angry mob (heehee), but that's the most I've seen with that sort of thing.

When I first got banded, I was a little judgemental of people that would post stuff like "I can eat whatever I want - Help!" because they obviously were ignoring the rules....but I've re-thought that stance a little: See, everybody that gets banded pays their money, and ends up paying the pain price (not very painful, sure, but still.....it's not exactly pleasurable). And if somebody goes through that and wants to break the rules, now I think that's their business. I'll not rebuke somebody for making their own choices.

Plain, I see you as one of the "smarties" of the board, and I'm not being sarcastic. I went back to the "www.Lapband.com" to look over the part about what you should eat and it doesn't say that the foods like chips, chocolate and cake, Cookies will go down without a problem, (sliders) but says they should be avoided. Now in my mind that meant you should stay away from them means it's bad to add that to your daily meal along with the Protein veg, because you'll have more in your pouch of bad foods than good. Not that they'd go down fine whereas the Protein and veg would fill your pouch. Am I wrong? Seriously. Avoiding something is one thing but actually stating that those are the foods that will down without a problem is something else. The only foods they mentioned that would go down without a problem were milkshakes and sodas.

This is my problem, I did not know that I could still eat foods like that and they wouldn't fill my pouch and that was a weakness I had before the surgery. Now it appears that the only surgery that would help a person like myself is the DS and that from what I understand is not performed by my surgical team and I really don't have much confidence in anything else. I feel like I'm stuck in limbo at this point. I never considered myself to be a stupid person and try to research and if I had thought this would still be an issue I never would have had the surgery because I knew it wouldn't help.

For so long I felt like a failure because I couldn't get this thing working and felt alone and that's kind of why I posted this to see if there were more people out there like me who would come out. That way I could look forward by getting ideas of what to do next which I'm finding on other forums but haven't found here yet but have liked this board so much that I was hoping to.

Sorry to get so wordy, but it's just how I feel at the moment, thanks brandyII.

.

[brandyII 9]

BJean,

Thanks you're very honest and I feel the same way with you. My doctor just started doing the band about two years ago and had always done the gastric bypass surgery. So there are many more patients who have had the other surgery. I was going to but chickened out about two weeks prior to surgery and got the band because I told him I didn't care how fast I lost it as long as I was able to lose a portion, get close to 200 or under and not gain it back!

Well went from 253 to 220+ and then had surgery and it came back on up to (depending on the scale) 246 to 250. I was truly happy at 225, I knew I wasn't perfect but my jeans fit and now they don't. I don't see myself going past 250 at this point, for some reason I can feel it, I want to go back to the 225 and below again.

In some ways I feel like I didn't have enough info, like I was telling Plain above, and you also are a "smartie" that I went back to the lapband website and it never said as far as I can tell that those foods to be avoided would be easy to eat and that's why they should be avoided!

I didn't come to the forum until after I became desperate after going for fills and weigh-ins with no progress and only despair. When I last met with my surgeon after fooling around with fills for months I told him that I honestly did not know that those foods would go down easily etc... and that they are a problem and that if he took out 2ccs and I went from 4 down to 2 I could possibly eat healthier foods and follow a plan like Weight Watchers and at least try it and maybe I was compensating the lack of food with the easy bad ones because I couldn't get enough of the good foods. Like trying to eat an orange and only getting to eat half a piece without feeling like barfing!

So even though he didn't want to he did. I did well the first week but the second week I screwed up, went down for a funeral so long road trip and depressing etc... so I messed up and put back what I had lost the first week. Maybe I'm giving up too soon and I'm not using the band now as it was intended by letting so much out but I still feel restriction just not as much. Eating bread is still difficult so I know there's restriction.

I went to a site where they all are getting the DS and that does seem really drastic and is more complicated than a regular bypass but it maybe the only thing that would work with me.

Like you said to Plain about head hunger, there should be a warning on the Lap Band site, "hey if you have head hunger do not enter" because it's not going to help you. If you eat big portions of meat and potatoes it's for you! Especially if you like turkey and white bread without mayo sandwiches three at a time we'll fix you right up!

Thanks for you words of encouragement. I just feel stuck, not food stuck, but like do I proceed with something else, possibly get surgery three hours away or do I leave in an object that I should never have gotten because I really wasn't the right candidate for it. Then there's insurance etc... and I don't want to get gastric bypass surgery if that's not going to work either after hearing what people have said about that and how much better the DS is for certain types of people.

Anyway rambling on too long but thanks, I always appreciate hearing what you say. I know you are struggling too after your loss and gain/plateau type situation that's very painful and scary place to be too, Nancy.

[VegasGrace 1]

d

I guess when I say "band failure" I don't mean physically the band is broken or the band isn't put in the right place that type of thing. It's more of a process failure whether it's people not being able to comply or not. Many people do very well on the band but there is a group out there besides myself that have just not been able to to lose weight with the band no matter what their situation is it's just not going to work for everyone and it's nice to know there are others that can feel free to come on here and share their stories too. Bands come in different sizes but that doesn't mean a banding in general will work with everyone. brandyII.

Oh, I see, you mean like failing at diets...failing at the band. I get it.

No, actually to answer you....I haven't read that at all. I've heard some having been banded years before with no weightloss...but they admit to not getting their recommended adjustments.

But someone actually getting adjustments and not losing weight...never heard of it.

But I have read a few bandsters claim they had to get an unfill because the restricton was too much....only to read on that still eat alot. Others wouldn't call that restriction...but because they have a need to eat alot of food, they do.

For sure the band isn't for everyone. A potential patient must commit to giving up large quantities of food. And not what they consider large...what the doctor considers large.

[brandyII 9]

d

Oh, I see, you mean like failing at diets...failing at the band. I get it.

No, actually to answer you....I haven't read that at all. I've heard some having been banded years before with no weightloss...but they admit to not getting their recommended adjustments.

But someone actually getting adjustments and not losing weight...never heard of it.

But I have read a few bandsters claim they had to get an unfill because the restricton was too much....only to read on that still eat alot. Others wouldn't call that restriction...but because they have a need to eat alot of food, they do.

For sure the band isn't for everyone. A potential patient must commit to giving up large quantities of food. And not what they consider large...what the doctor considers large.

See I don't feel crazy now that you've said you've never heard of that before if someone is getting their fills. I've certainly had my share of fills and unfills! My problem isn't over eating it's what I'm eating I suppose and the band doesn't help in that respect. Thanks brandyII.

[BJean 16]

Brandy: My heart bleeds for all of us who are frustrated and discouraged and disappointed. It's too bad that no one seems to know what will help us without suggesting another surgery of some sort.

Susan: I burst into tears one day in the dietician's office. Her door is often open during our bi-weekly (usually) visits. The entire office can hear what both the dietician and I have to say. The dietician was asking question after question trying to figure out why I had gained weight. She was being very direct and I just fell apart. I couldn't stop crying. She did suggest that I see this psychologist she works with, but I didn't. I just kept trying to handle it myself. I know everyone felt sorry for me on one hand, but I couldn't help but wonder if they thought I was one of those people who eats super high calorie foods and doesn't realize they're sabbotaging the band. I KNEW why I gained weight, I just didn't know what to do to stop it.

It took me a while to figure out what was going on. I kept reading stuff here at LBT and listening to what everyone (other patients) were saying in the doc's office. With their help, I finally realized that I must be over-filled. So he removed some of the restriction and sure enough I was less hungry and started losing weight again. None of the experts that I know have an answer for this but I do know that my doctor's office is finally realizing that this is what happens to many of their patients.

When you stop to think about it, this is a relatively new procedure in the U.S. It's bound to take some time for all the stats to get sorted out and for there to be clear parameters published for patients to determine whether they are good candidates for LB.

Before the surgery I was interviewed and evaluated by my doctor's psychologist which included taking some psychological tests. Obviously they did not reveal that I'm probably not the right kind of person for getting the band. Oh well. That's the proverbial Water under the bridge at this point. I intend to continue to work at this and hope that I can continue to take off weight - and I also plan to be happy with a very slow losing process. I do know that I need to stop beating myself up and I'm pretty sure that we all do if we're going to succeed. Easy to admit, harder to do though.

[BJean 16]

Grace: It is not uncommon for people with the band to become overfilled, subsequently be unable to eat much solid food and wind up eating things like milk shakes, chocolate and other super-rich foods because they are not getting enough nutrition and they are hungry. That's when they gain weight in spite of the fact that they have kept up with getting fills.

Obviously if there is barely any restriction, and patients go for periods of time without getting fills, they can eat too much real food and do not lose weight. But if they are over-filled, they can certainly still gain weight even though they are not eating a lot of food. You almost have to live through it to understand it. No one warned me about it and it was really hard to figure out.

[susansilver 0]

BJean: YES! We must stop beating ourselves up. Part of what I am coming to terms with is my feelings of failure. How in the heck did my weight or body size come to be equated with my worth as a human being! For goodness sakes! I am so much more compassionate with everyone else than myself! The other day I was feeling very hungry! So i ate more than I have been recently and yes it included a few Doritos and a dish of ice cream - BIG DEAL! The key is I Was eating out of true hunger and not using the food to deal with some other issue. I did not turn on myself - I consciously made this decision and I was fine with it. I really felt that my body needed this extra food - and this type of food. End of story. The next day I was back to usual.

[BJean 16]

Susan- that's GREAT! Very inspirational and motivational for me. I also am way too hard on myself - I must be since so many people tell me I am. I have always thought I was just being honest with myself. I guess I was beating myself up and constantly reeling from the bad feelings I was generating toward myself and that really undermines the whole process. I've probably done it all my life.

I think you really have your head on right! Keep up the great work. I am serious that your post has been very good for me!

I went to a fat farm once and their motto was: one brownie doesn't make you fat...