Some people, I swear...

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

He never said his colon was perforated. He said the port had separated from the band and traveled to his colon.

I think it's likely he's telling the truth. Lap bands do erode and once they are in the stomach, they can travel. But I think there are lots of things he's leaving out. Like the port sticking out ... I bet that happened before the incision healed 100%, for example. And that stuff about how he's in danger of dying from the operations .... sure, taking a lap band out of the stomach isn't going to be a piece of cake, but I wonder if at least half of the 'I might die!" is because he has a really high BMI and any surgery would be dangerous.

If he had just come here, posted in Lap Band Complications a straightforward version of his story and left out all the drama and the condensing preaching, it probably would all be more believable. It sure as hell wouldn't have been half as annoying.

Thank you. A voice of reason.

[Fanny Adams 7]

Wasa, I would never presume to argue with you on medical grounds. I have no hesitation in accepting your word for things in that area because I don't have the knowledge and experience to evaluate your comments. However, my skepticism was derived purely from non-medical grounds. The OP's comments about the Bariatric Surgery Industry being possible assassins and that there was a real danger that if anyone spoke out, they might get car-bombed is just utterly delusional to me. For example:

"He also stated that he has been asked on a number of occasions to write articles on his experiences in various journals, but he has DECLINED to do so, because he would fear for his safety if he ever told everything he knows about the Bariatric Surgery Industry. He was very clear about that. He said that the Bariatric surgery Industry is a Multi-Billion dollar industry now, and doctors and hospitals are just making SO much money that they are ignoring some of the clear and present risks associated with the procedures, JUST TO MAKE MONEY. He said that if he told what he knew, he is quite sure that he would go out to his car some morning, turn the ignition, and be blown up. The Bariatric Industry is THAT powerful."

If that doesn't scream paranoid delusions to you, I don't know what would! I know that the saying goes "you're not really paranoid if they are really after you" but honestly - do you think he or his surgeons are going to get car-bombed for speaking out?

Another thing that really bothers me about this guy is that he DOES appeal to the hidden racist in us all. He makes allusions all the way through his posts that can never quite be pinned down but that will appeal to those people who already distrust "foreigners" and are therefore willing to believe any nasty story told about those "sub-standard foreign ways". You yourself have recognised this and have eloquently put the case as to why it is bullshit. Speaking for myself, I am from Australia, where the Lap Band surgery has been used for many more years than it has in the US and is generally considered to be far preferable to alternate surgeries, barring specific circumstances that make the alternatives more viable. Let me tell you, it is an uncomfortalble feeling being lumped in with "those Mexicans". I am fully prepared to accept your contention that the Mexican health care system and Mexican surgeons are NOT sub-standard. I believe this because I KNOW that my healthcare system and my surgeons are not sub-standard and I can recognise that no argument levelled at the Mexican system has so far differntiated between the two. "Foreign" is NOT equivalent to "sub-standard".

Lastly, the OP has made a huge song and dance about how he is not looking for public support or endorsements but is simply "telling it like it is", yet he has consistantly used the language of media professionals in attempting to tell his story. When I first read the initial posts, I started to compose a reply that would list the MANY MANY times he alluded to "I have found a better way, I'll tell you more about this later". I gave up doing that cut and paste job when I saw how many other posters had already picked up on this stylistic telltale. I don't think it is necessary at this point in time, but I am prepared to do it if you think it might show something that perhaps you hadn't seen before.

In conclusion, I applaud your open-mindedness and willingness to consider that this OP might have a valid point to make. Howsomever, I do not believe that this is the case - the OP is not just fulll of shit and worthy of the general contempt with which he is being regarded; he is also guilty of outright scaremongering amongst our new bandsters and potential bandsters and that is simply cruel and unforgiveable.

[brandyII 9]

I may still be a "newbie" and not considered a professional bandster yet but when did this site become a place to attack anyone who has had a problem with the lap band.

Okay, I'm somewhat of a fixer and have a "can't we all get along" type of personality but even so I'd like to be able to rant about something once in a while without being attacked by the lap band elite.

I don't believe everyone should agree with everyone but it always ends up turning into something totally off course and very mean spirited.

I understand you LOVE :wub: your lap bands, and taking it so personally as you do seems a bit irrational to me. I'm sure you'll have something to say about this but I felt I had to say it, thanks, still brandyII, not one or three or four and it's not my dog!:biggrin::eek::crying::tongue:

[anonemouse 1]

I may still be a "newbie" and not considered a professional bandster yet but when did this site become a place to attack anyone who has had a problem with the lap band.

Okay, I'm somewhat of a fixer and have a "can't we all get along" type of personality but even so I'd like to be able to rant about something once in a while without being attacked by the lap band elite.

I don't believe everyone should agree with everyone but it always ends up turning into something totally off course and very mean spirited.

I understand you LOVE :wub: your lap bands, and taking it so personally as you do seems a bit irrational to me. I'm sure you'll have something to say about this but I felt I had to say it, thanks, still brandyII, not one or three or four and it's not my dog!:biggrin::eek::crying::tongue:

Brandy, I think you should definitely read the post directly above yours. It explains exactly why many of us are extremely skeptical and yes, hostile towards the man. We generally don't attack people who've had complications. For evidence of that, you can read the complications forum and the life after banding forum. No one in there is being dragged out and whipped, so to speak, by the rest of the members here. The problem with the member in question is the way he's presented himself. He's brought our disbelief and hostility upon himself.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Wasa, I would never presume to argue with you on medical grounds. I have no hesitation in accepting your word for things in that area because I don't have the knowledge and experience to evaluate your comments. However, my skepticism was derived purely from non-medical grounds. The OP's comments about the Bariatric Surgery Industry being possible assassins and that there was a real danger that if anyone spoke out, they might get car-bombed is just utterly delusional to me. For example:

"He also stated that he has been asked on a number of occasions to write articles on his experiences in various journals, but he has DECLINED to do so, because he would fear for his safety if he ever told everything he knows about the Bariatric Surgery Industry. He was very clear about that. He said that the Bariatric surgery Industry is a Multi-Billion dollar industry now, and doctors and hospitals are just making SO much money that they are ignoring some of the clear and present risks associated with the procedures, JUST TO MAKE MONEY. He said that if he told what he knew, he is quite sure that he would go out to his car some morning, turn the ignition, and be blown up. The Bariatric Industry is THAT powerful."

If that doesn't scream paranoid delusions to you, I don't know what would! I know that the saying goes "you're not really paranoid if they are really after you" but honestly - do you think he or his surgeons are going to get car-bombed for speaking out?

Another thing that really bothers me about this guy is that he DOES appeal to the hidden racist in us all. He makes allusions all the way through his posts that can never quite be pinned down but that will appeal to those people who already distrust "foreigners" and are therefore willing to believe any nasty story told about those "sub-standard foreign ways". You yourself have recognised this and have eloquently put the case as to why it is bullshit. Speaking for myself, I am from Australia, where the Lap Band surgery has been used for many more years than it has in the US and is generally considered to be far preferable to alternate surgeries, barring specific circumstances that make the alternatives more viable. Let me tell you, it is an uncomfortalble feeling being lumped in with "those Mexicans". I am fully prepared to accept your contention that the Mexican health care system and Mexican surgeons are NOT sub-standard. I believe this because I KNOW that my healthcare system and my surgeons are not sub-standard and I can recognise that no argument levelled at the Mexican system has so far differntiated between the two. "Foreign" is NOT equivalent to "sub-standard".

Lastly, the OP has made a huge song and dance about how he is not looking for public support or endorsements but is simply "telling it like it is", yet he has consistantly used the language of media professionals in attempting to tell his story. When I first read the initial posts, I started to compose a reply that would list the MANY MANY times he alluded to "I have found a better way, I'll tell you more about this later". I gave up doing that cut and paste job when I saw how many other posters had already picked up on this stylistic telltale. I don't think it is necessary at this point in time, but I am prepared to do it if you think it might show something that perhaps you hadn't seen before.

In conclusion, I applaud your open-mindedness and willingness to consider that this OP might have a valid point to make. Howsomever, I do not believe that this is the case - the OP is not just fulll of shit and worthy of the general contempt with which he is being regarded; he is also guilty of outright scaremongering amongst our new bandsters and potential bandsters and that is simply cruel and unforgiveable.

I agree with much of what you write. As I have alluded in most every post I've written on the topic I'm not convinced his presentation or motives are on the up and up. But you know, I guess I have to draw from what I have watched over the years. Ever see someone with a hangnail? You know, not just a regular person but those with drama? They don't just have a hangnail, oh no no no! Their finger was almost sliced off! And those with a headache? No, they never have just a headache, they have a MIGRAINE! When they take Motrin the Migraine goes away. Amazingly, Motrin does not typically work for a true migraine, it works for a headache. But a headache just isn't good enough. Ever seen a coworker go through the drama dance when they have a cold? You'd think they were dying! The moaning and groaning, when someone walks by and sees them their symptoms suddenly get worse. When nobody is watching... they have a simple cold. It's the drama.

As I wrote in my very first post on the other thread, I suspect much of this is drama. It's an attention getter, it attracts sympathy. Many patients do it. I know someone that was banded recently and I went with her for her banding. She was fine while she was walking through the halls but if her nurse or MD passed her in the halls she was suddenly hanging onto the walls because she was going to faint. As soon as the RN or MD was out of sight she was fine again.

People do it all the time. It's common. One of the most amusing examples was an older man I had for a patient. I knew the man well and knew he was really into drama. He was hobbling down the hallway using a walker. The man didn't NEED a walker. I ignored the hobbling, grunting, etc. and just kept going at the pace I knew he usually had. He finally got sick of me ignoring the drama and actually said, "Oh the hell with it!" He picked up his walker, held it over his head through a crowded hallway and ran to catch up with me. The attention seeking wasn't working and he didn't even try to hide his frustration with the situation.

So maybe I'm just used to it but that is a great deal of what I see in this guy. I think he has legit problems and the talk shows, etc... drama. Trying to make it seem like there was no way an infection happens and his is rare... well, it isn't rare. They happen all the time. I question if there were errors on both their parts. The patient and surgeon. For an infection to get so out of hand that the port pops through the skin.. that went on for awhile. The patient should have had it treated no matter what it took and the surgeon should have treated it no matter what it took. I have issues with that part of the problem. We all have to take responsibility for our own actions and that includes we patients.

The motives... I'm not impressed with the person on that end either. If he goes on TV (assuming anyone cares about the story) and takes the stance that WLS is bad, evil, and dangerous... that's karma and that one is on him. If he scares people away from good surgeons for a life saving procedure in the name of the almighty dollar... the universe will get him back and rightfully so. If he wants to point out the obvious that "shit happens" and that includes WLS... I doubt anyone will be interested. If there is a medical malpractice case then for a TV talk show... they are a dime a dozen. The only way to present it so the public wants to hear is harping on the dangers and evils of WLS. Only someone like Oprah who is so anti-WLS that she won't do anything serious about her own problem would be interested in such a story. If deceit is what it takes to sell his ebook, there isn't a lot we can do.

But to assume he can't be telling the truth about the actual medical problems and slam dunking him by being an armchair doctor presuming to have information we simply don't have is wrong. People have done it to me and I'll be damned if I'll sit by and watch it to someone else.

It's weird, when it comes to WLS, many are so overly protective of their surgery type they just won't permit anyone to say anything bad about their surgery type or their doctor. It's almost like an insecurity thing, if it happened to someone else it could happen to them. It's spooky! We all fear this isn't going to work and we might get fat again. I think I could have handled not losing any weight better than I would cope with losing it and gaining it all back again.

I just don't agree with slam dunking someone with problems. Is he weird? Well, yeah. He is. Are his motives great? I don't think so. But you know, we get a lot of odd folks around here and we don't slam dunk them all. We get people with big stories and outlandish claims but we don't go after him like we have this guy. But this guy is different, he's speaking out about problems with a band that any of us could potentially experience and the only thing I can come up with is a fear that we will experience the same or that the newbies might discover banding isn't all sweetness and light and there are issues with banding. Many don't want the newbies to know, they want everyone to have the same shot at weight loss they have and since complications are low, why scare the newbies?

That's just not right.

So all in all, I agree with you. And I agree with you about the Mexico thing too. It's insulting when someone is ignorant enough and lazy enough that they can't be bothered with researching anything. They believe what the media spoon feeds them and if 20/20 says it's so, by God it's so! No reading required, no personal effort required. The media teaches them everything they need to know in life.

It's insulting that people would think I went to Mexico for price and I didn't give a shit about my health. I didn't go there for price, my insurance would have paid for my surgery. Or I could have gone private pay in Phoenix. I thought this was my last shot at weight loss and I wanted the best of the best with no hassles and a fair price. I got that. So when people assume that Mexicans are too stupid to do a safe surgery it is the same as telling me I am an idiot that doesn't know how to pick out a doctor.

I'll bet I know how to pick out a doctor better than 95% of the people posting here. So that is another reason it is insulting. It also makes us look like a country full of bigots when people make stupid comments about places outside the US. It goes to show we don't know anything about any country including our own.

Okay, rant over for now. ;o)

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Brandy, I think you should definitely read the post directly above yours. It explains exactly why many of us are extremely skeptical and yes, hostile towards the man. We generally don't attack people who've had complications. For evidence of that, you can read the complications forum and the life after banding forum. No one in there is being dragged out and whipped, so to speak, by the rest of the members here. The problem with the member in question is the way he's presented himself. He's brought our disbelief and hostility upon himself.

I agree and I disagree.

The guys motives and presentation are obviously questionable. Does anyone really have a doubt about that? I don't think so. But his medical history... that's a whole different ball game. I don't think we have a right to tear him to shreds and claim his medical issues couldn't possibly have happened when 1) we don't have his medical records sitting in front of us and 2) Look at the people claiming this is impossible and they have virtually no medical knowledge? We have people who are EMTs claiming they know what happens in surgery! Since when are EMTs actively in surgery for a career? That would make them OR staff, not EMTs. Same with anyone else. They are using common sense but with limited medical knowledge. If it doesn't make sense then it can't be. But it doesn't make sense because there are some that don't realize there is a difference between perforations and embedded foreign objects.

We are slam dunking this guy NOT just on his presentation and motives, but we are claiming medical knowledge we don't have.

Slam dunk him for what is wrong, but don't assume it's all wrong. That's just not fair. It will only serve to stop others with legit problems from posting and then newbies really don't have a balanced view of banding during their research.

[losing it in ne 0]

I have been following this for a while now and to be honest I have no doubt this guy has some very real issues. Anyone who read the band book should know that. His current doc seems unprofessional and somewhat unethical to me. Trully I htink he is enjoying all the attention he is getting here. Head hunter I think you have made a poor choice in using this forum to air your anger but so be it. I'm trullly sorry for all your complications and wish you well but for me this has absolutely been the right choice, risks and all. After 9 bowel surgeries in 6 years I have a few. Best luck to you but I refuse to assuage your anger so I won't post here again. Life sucks sometimes, get yourself a good therarpist you are going to need it to even be moderately healthy or happy with all the anger you have. Again good luck to you.

[anonemouse 1]

I agree and I disagree.

The guys motives and presentation are obviously questionable. Does anyone really have a doubt about that? I don't think so. But his medical history... that's a whole different ball game. I don't think we have a right to tear him to shreds and claim his medical issues couldn't possibly have happened when 1) we don't have his medical records sitting in front of us and 2) Look at the people claiming this is impossible and they have virtually no medical knowledge? We have people who are EMTs claiming they know what happens in surgery! Since when are EMTs actively in surgery for a career? That would make them OR staff, not EMTs. Same with anyone else. They are using common sense but with limited medical knowledge. If it doesn't make sense then it can't be. But it doesn't make sense because there are some that don't realize there is a difference between perforations and embedded foreign objects.

We are slam dunking this guy NOT just on his presentation and motives, but we are claiming medical knowledge we don't have.

Slam dunk him for what is wrong, but don't assume it's all wrong. That's just not fair. It will only serve to stop others with legit problems from posting and then newbies really don't have a balanced view of banding during their research.

That's a good point. But I think there are only limited number of people here who honestly think that he's not had complications. I think the vast majority of us just, like you, think he's over-exaggerating them. And honestly, I think that if he hadn't presented himself the way he did, there wouldn't even be anyone questioning whether or not he's had complications at all. I think he turned so many people off with his first post (and subsequent ones), that they grabbed anything he's said that could remotely be called into question to discredit him, whether it was something that they should have grabbed or not. Should they have done that, probably not. But it isn't an example of the way most people react to complications around here, which is what I was trying to get at in my post to Brandy. There are going to be some ignorant assholes, there are some in every group, no matter what it is. But the vast majority of people here are supportive. I honestly think this was an extraordinary situation, for the most part.

[MacMadame 81]

I suspect he did not remove the excess tubing at the time of surgery.

I have often wondered about that. When you watch lap band surgeries online, you see this incredibly long tube. Then they cut away to the talking head and when they come back, they are stitching the port into place. I always wonder where all the tubing went.

What happened with this guy wouldn't be much different from erosion.

It seems like he did have erosion. Isn't his band inside his tummy? Do port infections increase the chance of erosion? Something you said earlier seemed to imply that.

Since the US has started banding slip stats have doubled according to Inamed.

But how can that be?! US surgeons are the best! Everyone knows that!! (j/k)

What if this guy is for real? We have treated a fellow banded person like complete shit and why? Are we afraid he might be telling the truth and this could happen to us?

I don't think that's why. I think it's because he's a big ol' drama queen and he's been quite insulting to many people, including, but not limited to, all nurses. I'm sorry, but he brought his treatment on himself with his drama, preposterous claims and nasty sniping at anyone who challenged him.

That doesn't make it right and I wish people would calm down about it, but it is understandable and I don't think it has anything to do with fear for most of us.

Initial surgical risk for banding is indeed the safer option. BUT... 30 days after surgery a sleeve person has drastically fewer risks and complications than a banded person.

For myself, I don't want to die having elective surgery. My kids are still young enough that I want to be around for them. I will take more complications on the back-end for a safer surgery. There are other reasons I prefer LB to GS but that's a biggie.

You know, I'm having band problems too.

I'm sorry to hear that.

What you guys are doing to this guy is NO different from what the other person on another board did to me.

I think it is different because I doubt you went to that board and posted a bunch of crap about how if you spoke out about your problems, you'd be car bombed by the evil Bariatric Industry in your very first couple of posts.

I actually think what happened to you was worse because you were a known entity and there was probably a certain level of trust that was broken by that person being nasty to you.

[ReadySteadyGo 8]

I may still be a "newbie" and not considered a professional bandster yet but when did this site become a place to attack anyone who has had a problem with the lap band.

Okay, I'm somewhat of a fixer and have a "can't we all get along" type of personality but even so I'd like to be able to rant about something once in a while without being attacked by the lap band elite.

I don't believe everyone should agree with everyone but it always ends up turning into something totally off course and very mean spirited.

I understand you LOVE :wub: your lap bands, and taking it so personally as you do seems a bit irrational to me. I'm sure you'll have something to say about this but I felt I had to say it, thanks, still brandyII, not one or three or four and it's not my dog!:biggrin::eek::crying::tongue:

I have to kind of agree with you.

He has made some fishy comments, but if his story is true (which I have no way of knowing) then maybe he feels justified in saying and doing the things he has. Some of the things he has described sound so horrible, I couldn't imagine the emotional or mental state he is in.

Or maybe he is just a troll and a liar...but if there is a chance he is not then I do not want to be the one making light of his greivances.

[Sades 4]

I agree. I'd hate to have such a serious problem and have no-one believe me. On the other hand, he's certainly gotten mileage out of these threads and opened up a can of worms in the process.

[ReadySteadyGo 8]

That's a good point. But I think there are only limited number of people here who honestly think that he's not had complications. I think the vast majority of us just, like you, think he's over-exaggerating them. And honestly, I think that if he hadn't presented himself the way he did, there wouldn't even be anyone questioning whether or not he's had complications at all. I think he turned so many people off with his first post (and subsequent ones), that they grabbed anything he's said that could remotely be called into question to discredit him, whether it was something that they should have grabbed or not. Should they have done that, probably not. But it isn't an example of the way most people react to complications around here, which is what I was trying to get at in my post to Brandy. There are going to be some ignorant assholes, there are some in every group, no matter what it is. But the vast majority of people here are supportive. I honestly think this was an extraordinary situation, for the most part.

oops sorry I missed this one before I posted. I agree MOSt people I met here are supportive. If they were not I wouldn't be on it. I totally agree with this post. I would just like to add that you can be a complete a-hole and not realize it, it doesn't mean you don't need support as well. I really feel people should lay off. I am sure they had a reason to be mad, but it's getting pretty violent in here (internetacly speaking I mean)

[anonemouse 1]

I just want to clarify that in my above post, I wasn't trying to call anyone here an ignorant asshole! Poor choice of words, I know, but I don't want to offend anyone!

[brandyII 9]

Now this is the group I enjoy!!!!!!brandyII

[plain 12]

Gee, Wasa, let me guess.....were you banded in Mexico?

I think maybe you misread my previous post (or I worded it poorly. That could certainly be the case). I was not dissing Mexican hospitals or doctors. My point was that Mexican hospitals don't have the same litagation worries that American hospitals do. So the paperwork may be different. Get that chip off ya shoulder!

Also, in the case of the NICU baby.....having a "cleaning team" go through the chart is not the same as providing preop paperwork to the patient. Again, it was not a diatribe as to how American hospitals are vastly superior to Mexican hospitals. That wasn't even implied.

Ok, I understand what an erosion of the band is. What I don't understand is how the tubing comes loose and finds its way into the stoma. That would be like threading a needle without using your hands. And you don't think there was any bleeding or bruising prior to the port "popping out"? I don't get it. It still seems fishy to me.

And I didn't quite understand that part where you might opt for a revision to a procedure that allows you to maintain weight. What would this procedure be? Why not unfill, or have the band removed altogether? Or maybe that's what you were talking about?

Lastly, I wouldn't mock somebody's medical knowledge because they're an EMT. That's kinda elitist of you, wasa.