Flying, Weight and Discrimination...

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

This was an interesting thread to read. I've had many flights where I have worried about seatbelts and disturbing other passengers. Luckily now I normally fly first class so I don't have to worry too much about it.

I agree that if a person takes up two seats, they should have to pay for two tickets, or if they don't want to bother, they could fly first class where everything is a little bigger. However, I do think it was rude for the attendant to approach your sister pre flight and discuss this. The attendant doesn't need to know anything unless it causes a disturbance to others... in which case it can be dealt with at that time.

[snuffy65 1]

I agree that if a person takes up two seats, they should have to pay for two tickets, or if they don't want to bother, they could fly first class where everything is a little bigger. However, I do think it was rude for the attendant to approach your sister pre flight and discuss this. The attendant doesn't need to know anything unless it causes a disturbance to others... in which case it can be dealt with at that time.

Except its the attendants job to look out for a trouble BEFORE they get on the plane. Everything takes longer and harder to fix when your on the plane playing musical chairs with seats.

Is it wrong to ask me if I won't be able to sit in a regular seat with my cast? Is it wrong to ask a man in a wheel chair if he needs to be in a front seat? Is it wrong to tell that person with 300lb carry on that she will have to check it in.

Obesity is like any other handicap, and when you complain that a service is acknowledging that handicap then you are only embarrassing yourself.

Some obese people need to get off their "oh poor me, don't talk about my weight" mentality and maybe they will be confident enough to fix their disability. Wish a blind man or quadriplegic had that choice.

[MacMadame 81]

In fact, most airlines give discounts and actually seen free tickets for someone who needs to make a funeral.

That wasn't my experience. Airlines have a special bereavement rate that is lower than their normal full purchase rate, but it's still higher than the rate most people pay and to get it you have to jump through a lot of hoops -- some want you to bring a copy of the death certificate! Like I'm going to have that when I fly to my MIL's funeral.

When I broke my leg and had a cast, was it wrong for them to ask me in line if I needed an front seat cause my leg wouldn't bend?

There is a bit difference between asking if you need a different seat and strong-arming you into paying for two seats. There is no *law* that says you have to pay for two seats. That's just an airline policy.

Airlines are making it harder and less pleasant for more and more people to fly every day and then wonder why they can't make a profit. Companies that don't pay attention to the customer rarely last long. Many of these airlines would be long gone if they didn't get government bailouts and subsidies.

[brandyII 9]

Go to NAAFA.org for Airline Tips for Large Passengers, it might be helpful to some.

[shortgal 5]

Not everyone is fortunate enough to afford or have insurance that pays for WLS, so not everyone can "fix" their disability. And WLS for the most hasn't been available until recent years.

So what do we tell the 66 y/o lady that has a heart condition and doesn't qualify for WLS? Tough shit old lady, suck it up and fit in that tiny seat to go visit the grandkids? Yeah, even though we know the seat barely fits the average person. Yeah, we know your knees will bother you with no leg room.

The laugh is medical experts recommend you get up and walk on a flight to prevent DVT. Ha! With the food cart in the aisle or turbulence ( the pilot says stay in your seat with your seat belt buckled) and oh yeah after you climb over the other two people if you're in a window seat.

Flying used to be exciting and the first step and last step in a great vacation. It has become just a crappy way to get from one place to another.

Trust me, I am not a bleeding heart type in anyway.

And some airlines are not allowing heavy carryons bags and some have not only a size limit for carryon, but a weight limit, as well.

[Boo Boo Kitty 3]

Why should they? If you want a more luxurious flight, pay for a business/first class seat.

Look, flying in coach sucks for everyone, but nobody is forcing you to fly.

WOW! The airline could make it more comfortable for everyone to fly but they don't because truth be told they don't care. I can't afford business class, and being 6'0" coach sucks.

And I do have to fly so I shop flights by plane size. I know bigger planes have more leg room. Customer service is lost everywhere, why should the air be any different?

And to the orignal poster. I am sorry for your sister, I know that Southwest makes a habit of this personally it happend to be 5 years ago. it is the ay they operate their business.

[ingyrob 1]

Does this mean that a really thin person suffering from anorexia will only have to pay for half a seat? :biggrin:

[anonemouse 1]

There is a bit difference between asking if you need a different seat and strong-arming you into paying for two seats. There is no *law* that says you have to pay for two seats. That's just an airline policy.

Airlines are making it harder and less pleasant for more and more people to fly every day and then wonder why they can't make a profit. Companies that don't pay attention to the customer rarely last long. Many of these airlines would be long gone if they didn't get government bailouts and subsidies.

No, there is no law, but why should the airline basically either give away a seat or make the person sitting immediately beside an extremely fat person literally share their seat? If someone takes up more than one seat, they should have to pay for more than one seat. The airlines may make their extremely large customers unhappy with this policy, and may well lose their business, but I'd wager to guess that normal-sized fliers are a heck of a lot more likely to be repeat customers if they aren't being forced to share a seat, when they paid for an entire seat of their own.

And honestly, if the airlines changed the layouts of their planes and offered fewer wider seats instead of many narrow seats, people would still be unhappy with them, since that would mean that seat prices would skyrocket.

My opinion is this: If a flight isn't full, seat very large fliers in areas where they won't have to sit immediately next to anyone. If the flight is full, either make them buy a second seat (even though it might bump someone off the flight), or give massive discounts to the people sitting immediately to the sides of them.

[Wheetsin 714]

Before I got obese I had to fly next to obese people, and now that I'm much closer to a normal BMI I have to fly next to obese people, and they really do impede on your space. I can fit in the seats/seatbelts/etc. but I don't have a TON of extra space. I need what's mine, per my ticket. When someone spills over their alotted space, it takes up my space that I pay for. It's not unusual for an obese person's hips to spill past their seat, under the arm rest, and take up the seats next to them. When someone's girth is such that their abdominal fat is hanging on my arm rest, I don't get my arm rest and have to sit there with my arms across my chest or something. I paid for a seat, and even if it's only 19", it's 19" I paid for. If I'm having to lean into the aisle to accommodate someone else's girth, I should not have to pay for 19".

When I was larger, and had to fly, I would pay extra for a flight with larger seats -- e.g. Midwest. It's not the fault of the person next to me that I'm fat, and I didn't think it was fair for me to take part of their seat they paid for.

[MacMadame 81]

why should the airline basically either give away a seat or make the person sitting immediately beside an extremely fat person literally share their seat? If someone takes up more than one seat, they should have to pay for more than one seat. The airlines may make their extremely large customers unhappy with this policy, and may well lose their business, but I'd wager to guess that normal-sized fliers are a heck of a lot more likely to be repeat customers if they aren't being forced to share a seat, when they paid for an entire seat of their own.

Why should I have to smell someone else's perfume that aggrevates my allergies? I paid as much for my seat as someone who doesn't have allergies. Why should I be miserable?

Or how about a smelly person?

A loud talker?

That drunk guy who can't keep his hands to himself?

How about that kid who keeps kicking the back of my seat or the family flying with a small baby who keep crying?

The guy who sits down and immediately grabs BOTH armrests so that the person in the middle hasn't got any place to put their arms?

Should they all have to pay more because all these people are annoying the crap out of the rest of us and even impinging on our space?

At a time when the average American is getting wider, airlines have responded by making airline seats even smaller and closer together. Heck, I'm barely over 5 ft and my legs are too long for the average airline seat. I really feel for those are who are taller than average.

Airlines have made fat people the scapegoat, but in reality charging a few people extra for a second seat isn't going to make or break their profit margin. Then, they institute the next cheap-ass policy to try to save a few more nickles and it turns off even more people so even less people fly so they make even less money. It's a vicious cycle and they can't seem to see how badly they run their business.

P.S. I have flown next to normal weight people who still spill over into my seat. They do it because they sprawl in their seat and are rude jerks who don't care about anyone else but themselves. (These are usually the two armrest people too.) Should the airlines charge them more too? I'd actually be on board for that -- you can choose not to be rude, but obesity is a lot more complex than that.

Edited April 14, 2008 by MacMadame

[Wheetsin 714]

Why should I have to smell someone else's perfume that aggrevates my allergies? I paid as much for my seat as someone who doesn't have allergies. Why should I be miserable?

Or how about a smelly person?

A loud talker?

That drunk guy who can't keep his hands to himself?

How about that kid who keeps kicking the back of my seat or the family flying with a small baby who keep crying?

The guy who sits down and immediately grabs BOTH armrests so that the person in the middle hasn't got any place to put their arms?

Your examples by and large can be remedied by notifying the stewardess. Not sure about the smelly person, they're probably the closest to another apple when it comes to an obese person. A loud person - ask them to be quiet, or tell your attendant. A drunk person - they can be kicked off the plane or detained until landing. Kids - trust me - attendants will take care of it. Having your seat taken up by someone else, the attendant can't really go ask them to lose weight real quick. Much like they can't ask someone to go shower real quick. But the size issue can be fixed for other flyers by requiring "POS" to purchase another seat. Boom, issue handled. If someone's smell really bothered me, another seat won't do anything, and I would have the attendant put me in one of the reserve seats.

[MacMadame 81]

I don't agree that the stewardess can take care of the kicking kid. The stewardess can't do more than ask their parents to not let their kid kick the seat. But if the parents aren't going to stop their kids from kicking, they aren't going to do it. And if they are a certain type of person, they will just get mad at YOU for daring to criticize them, their little darling, and their parenting skills.

Heck, some lady had a guy move out of his assigned seat and come jack off on her and the stewardess wouldn't do anything about, not even tell him to go back to his assigned seat. They aren't going to do much about annoying people unless it's really, really bad. Someone who keeps asking you questions so you can't sleep isn't bad enough.

Airlines are one of the worst run businesses in the world, IMO, and making seats smaller then demanding people pay for two of them is just one example of how they don't keep the customer in mind.

[Wheetsin 714]

I can't imagine letting a guy jack off on you. Hell, I wouldn't wait long enough to ask the stewardess for help before knocking him out. :biggrin: I've always had either parents or stewardesses handle children, even on the 10+ hour international flights. I'm not sure what consequences they offer, but they've always been very effective.

So maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't.

Point being, a fat person taking up my seat can be fixed by that person buying another ticket. We pay for a certain amount of seat. A kid kicking the back of your seat doesn't mean you get less of your seat. Someone talking loud doesn't mean you get less of your seat. Someone's saddlebags creeping over does.

[cathyalmond 1]

I think your sister was treated unfairly and she should reconsider flying with that airline in the future. I have flown small planes and large planes and the seats are small for a thinner person. I have to request a seatbelt extender and lift the armrests when the flight is in the air...I have never had any problems and no one has ever said anything. I chose an aisle seat and have even lifted the exterior armrest during flight to stretch into the aisle...again no one has ever said anything. I fly out of Canada on Canadian based airlines. I guess maybe our skies are friendlier??

[miztrniceguy 1]

i love midwest...nice large seats.