Flying, Weight and Discrimination...

[Doddie63 6]

I posted about this new ruling in Canada earlier. There is no question in my mind that the American Airlines treat the overweight person in a negative way. They know very well they are discriminating. Someday some organization will take them to court. As for my thoughts, If I have to pay for two seats the airline could put in a row of larger seats with slightly higher fares. If I had a comfortable seat, I would pay the extra. I think it unlikely the seats would go empty. However, from what I have read the Airlines don't treat their staff to well either. For instance, the unions had to fight to have safety seats available to the staff. Big business will always push to make their profits at the expense of the public and only laws will bring them into line. Canada has done it now the American Government should as well.

[plain 12]

Uh, but in America, we're capitalists, not socialists. We can't really compare to Canada in most things, because it would be an apples & oranges type of thing.

[losingjusme 12]

yes, i do....

[Doddie63 6]

Plain LOL What Canada are you referring to. We have an Ultra Conservative government in and the only socialist province (NDP) is Manitoba last I heard. In BC we have far right liberals. No, I just think the Canadians respect the needs of all, eh! Doddie

[snuffy65 1]

Plain LOL What Canada are you referring to. We have an Ultra Conservative government in and the only socialist province (NDP) is Manitoba last I heard. In BC we have far right liberals. No, I just think the Canadians respect the needs of all, eh! Doddie

You mean you want to make a company respect all?

If I put time, money, and effort into starting a company I sure the hell will want to run it the way I want to (unless I infringe on someone constitutional rights).

[snuffy65 1]

Plain LOL What Canada are you referring to. We have an Ultra Conservative government in and the only socialist province (NDP) is Manitoba last I heard. In BC we have far right liberals. No, I just think the Canadians respect the needs of all, eh! Doddie

Sorry but compared to USA, Canada does have more socialist laws and policies then we do. Not calling Canada bad, but stating the truth.

And just what is a far right liberal? Thought they are only in Poland.

[brandyII 9]

Any country that puts cheese and gravy on their fries should be admired! And that's all I'm going to say, I don't need to have the last word, for reals!!!!! brandyII

[Doddie63 6]

No snuffy, just want companies to respect the rights of all. No question if you want to start a company and run it the way you would like, you can, however, the rest of us don't have to patronize the company. A far right liberal is closer to conservative thinking than central or far left. They subscribe to less socialism. Don't wish to start a war between the two countries, we need each other but, we can learn from each other. We need your trade and you need our natural resources but we all are very similar.

[snuffy65 1]

No snuffy, just want companies to respect the rights of all.

then why support a law or court decision to force companies to conform?

No question if you want to start a company and run it the way you would like, you can, however, the rest of us don't have to patronize the company.

This I agree with. If they offend people they will lose business and another business will pick up the slack. See that is capitalism, letting the market determine what is needed. Socialism is the government telling the companies they have to. Which was what the court decision in Canada did.

A far right liberal is closer to conservative thinking than central or far left.

We call them centrists or moderate conservatives here.

Don't wish to start a war between the two countries, we need each other but, we can learn from each other. We need your trade and you need our natural resources but we all are very similar.

Not trying to start a war here. I didn't think Canada was filled with lefty wackos. However, the fact remains Canada has more socialist laws and programs than we do which was the point of Plain.

Not being rude but just stating facts. As a matter of fact, the American dollar has fell below the Canadian dollar. So we have nothing to gloat about.

Edited April 16, 2008 by snuffy65

[MacMadame 81]

and MacMadame, i agree... some of the very top execs do get the huge pay outs and it really does tick some of us off, but you know, they run the airline and do have a lot to deal with... im not making excuses, but just sayin ...

The salaries of most top execs are all out of whack compared to what the rest of the employees make. This bugs because the way companies make a profit is to squeeze more and more out of less and less employees. But the people at the top -- the ones that make the bad decisions that cause their companies to not be profitable -- don't tighten their belts.

They don't make a profit, OMG!!!!!!!!

They don't. But it's not because fat people aren't paying for two seats. It's because they are extremely badly run with no consumer focus. If you aren't innovative or consumer-driven, you can't say in business -- unless you have a monopoly or serious government subsidy. A company that pisses on its customers soon doesn't have any.

Which is why the SW policy of arm rests is fair. Then you don't have to guess and attendants don't ahve to argue with the 400lb man who doen't understand why people can't sit by him.

It's fair if you want to have a fair, but consumer-unfriendly policy.

This is good. Wish more people would do this so MY ticket prices won;t go up.

If less people fly, prices WILL go up. In fact, less people are flying and that's part of the problem.

The airlines are driving away their customer-base without a plan in place to get a new customer-base.

Yes top execs get alot of money. What company's execs don't? What you need to do is look at margin of profits. Or maybe take a economics class.

Or maybe stop believing the load of bull that the airlines hand out. :biggrin:

If you took one or two seats out of a certain type a plane it would cost alot. $100's of dollars x per 100's of flight X 100's of planes. Try doing the math!

If less and less people fly, there are less people to spread out the fixed costs of running the business. Every business has fixed costs and you need a customer base that pays for them or you have to charge extremely high prices -- higher than the market will bare ... which means Chapter 11 or Chapter 7 is in your future.

I used to have my own business. I'm well aware of how it all works. You have to balance everything against what it takes to get and keep customers. If your business model includes charging lots more than your customers are willing to pay for the service you provide, it's not going to work.

When I business is faced with economic woes, they have several options.

1) They can cut costs. There is often some slop that can be cut out. But cut too much and morale of your staff suffers and the service you provide will suffer too.

2) They can change the service/products they sell.

3) They can find new markets for their services that have a better profit margin.

If they just do #1, it will work for a while, but it won't work forever. #2 and #3 are HARD and not every company can figure out how to do them effectively.

So far, the airlines haven't been impressing me with their efforts, such as they are. They seem stuck on #1 and, as I said, that only goes so far for so long.

60% of americans are over weight not morbidly obese. Last time I checked I can fit in the seats fine with a 43 BMI.

It's not just BMI. It's how you are shaped. Plenty of people smaller than me can fit in a seat -- if they never move. But that's not realistic. You have to move around. Which means you will keep slopping over. Plus plenty of people with BMIs that are lower than 43 don't fit in the seats. If you do, you are very lucky.

Again, people DOOOOOOOOOO have choices. upgrade your seat! pay for seat insurance! Fly on airlines that have bigger seats.

Don't fly! Which will really help airlines.

If I put time, money, and effort into starting a company I sure the hell will want to run it the way I want to (unless I infringe on someone constitutional rights).

You can run your company any way you want. IF you want to STAY in business, you have to offer customers a product or service they want at a price they are willing to pay for it.

[brandyII 9]

Let's just kill off all the fat people before they get a chance to board the plain and decrease the surplus population!

[Doddie63 6]

sorry, I don't understand the connection between the courts ruling an overweight person is entitled to a seat as a socialistic ruling. Seems it is more in line with acknowledging overweight people are to be treated with respect and are entitled to the same benefits as "normal" people. What about handicap parking spaces? What about the services given to physically challenged by the airlines. What about the rights of minorities. I don't think the American Courts socialists yet they have made many rulings in favor of minorities. Sounds like what you are saying is that it should be a free for all and may the best win and to hell with the ones that fall thru the cracks. Sorry, I think I will take the socialists view point if I have to watch people suffer.

[snuffy65 1]

The salaries of most top execs are all out of whack compared to what the rest of the employees make. This bugs because the way companies make a profit is to squeeze more and more out of less and less employees. But the people at the top -- the ones that make the bad decisions that cause their companies to not be profitable -- don't tighten their belts.

Wheres your proof?

They don't. But it's not because fat people aren't paying for two seats. It's because they are extremely badly run with no consumer focus. If you aren't innovative or consumer-driven, you can't say in business -- unless you have a monopoly or serious government subsidy. A company that pisses on its customers soon doesn't have any.

Its hard to become customer focus when costs get out of control and it is no longer feasible to give the came amount of service then before without raising prices.

It's fair if you want to have a fair, but consumer-unfriendly policy.

Free country, they can have that policy.

The airlines are driving away their customer-base without a plan in place to get a new customer-base.

Have you seen their business plan? What would yours plan be?

Or maybe stop believing the load of bull that the airlines hand out.

:biggrin:

Your calling them overpaid, bad managers, and have bad accountants without one number to support you. Who's slinging the BS?

If less and less people fly, there are less people to spread out the fixed costs of running the business. Every business has fixed costs and you need a customer base that pays for them or you have to charge extremely high prices -- higher than the market will bare ... which means Chapter 11 or Chapter 7 is in your future.

And what happens when your fixed costs goes up? You need to cut somewhere?

I used to have my own business. I'm well aware of how it all works. You have to balance everything against what it takes to get and keep customers. If your business model includes charging lots more than your customers are willing to pay for the service you provide, it's not going to work.

Again, what if your fixed costs go up higher then you can manage?

1) They can cut costs. There is often some slop that can be cut out. But cut too much and morale of your staff suffers and the service you provide will suffer too.

They have, remember all the strikes after they did that? Remeber they removed all the free meals. Remember all the extras you use to get? Thats all gone to fixed costs, not execs pocket and definitly not ticket fees.

2) They can change the service/products they sell.

Done this too. Although, not sure what other services airplanes can sell? I know one airline put in a plane filled with bunny girls for trips to Vegas, that was interesting.

3) They can find new markets for their services that have a better profit margin.

They are a airline, not Walmart.< /p>

Don't fly! Which will really help airlines.

Smartest thing you said here. I know your being sarcastic but you shouldn't be. Ask most economists. Airlines are like every other business in America, if your not efficient, theres 10 more companies waiting to be better. Most economists will tell you let them fall and let someone else take over.

You can run your company any way you want. IF you want to STAY in business, you have to offer customers a product or service they want at a price they are willing to pay for it.

Thanks for the 9th grade business lecture.

With all this I leave you with this one last thing. If airlines had it so good, a great profit margin, and execs were making hand over fists (compared to other companies). Don't you think some other entrepreneur would step up and create a "customer centric" airline? I know Jet Blue is kinda that type of newer airline, but what you know, they are having problems too.

Edited April 16, 2008 by snuffy65

[miztrniceguy 1]

maybe i'll buy an airplane and start a new airline called FFA...Fat Flyers Airlines. i will pass out pizza and ice cream on flights, and 44 oz diet cokes. and i'll charge a premium price for tickets.

[brandyII 9]

Anyone else getting tired of all the BS flying around hear, no pun intended.

Edited April 16, 2008 by brandyII