Flying, Weight and Discrimination...

[BanTam 1]

Just wanted to pass the word about what happened to my sister last month.

My sister was visiting me at the beginning of March. She flew with her just turned 5 year old child.

Yes, my sister is also overweight, but her child is a little string-bean.

As my sister is waiting in the "boarding with children" line when a Southwest Airlines employee comes up and asks her if she is comfortable flying. My sister says, yeeeeessss..... not sure where he was going with his comments. Then he started to ask if she was comfortable in the seats, yeeeeessssss......then it dawns on her. He is specifically asking her this because she is fat and he confirmed it by then asking her if when she is sitting in the seat can she put the arm rests down because the law states she must fly with the arm rests down. She was livid, but what could she do? Yell at the guy in front of her child ? All she could say was that she was flying with her small child and there would not be a problem. She was near tears.

Mind you, the Southwest Airlines employee did this in front of EVERYONE. If Southwest Airlines has a problem with overweight people buying tickets from them, then they should say so at the time of purchase ! My sister found it very humiliating.

[Wheetsin 714]

Southwest tends to be more vocal about this policy, but what he told her is accurate, and ALL airlines can do it. And they rarely make it a personal/private event, even though I'm sure many wish they would.

If Southwest Airlines has a problem with overweight people buying tickets from them, then they should say so at the time of purchase ! My sister found it very humiliating.

YOu have to keep in mind that something like 97% of people who purchase tickets do so online, so how could the airline have any clue? Maybe they could ask weight, but then people will lie. Maybe they could ask measurements, but then people would lie. And so on. They can't do much until they see the people. But yes -- if someone has to be called out for POS, then it would be a consideration on their part to find a way to pull the person aside.

The term is "POS" - person of size. That's sort of the codename they will use to call someone out.

She probably doesn't feel it, but she's actually lucky. Most of the time if they go so far as to stop you, they've already identified you over the radios as a POS and are going to push you to purchase the second ticket. That's the whole policy. If you cannot get the armrests down, and they will not stay completely down on their own, then you don't fit in your seat and you "will be" (if they catch/notice you) required to buy a second seat. If the flight is full, that' the end of the story. If the flight is not full, your extra seat purchase will be refunded. If there are no more seats available, or you refuse to purchase the extra ticket, they can prevent you from boarding.

[snuffy65 1]

Just wanted to pass the word about what happened to my sister last month.

My sister was visiting me at the beginning of March. She flew with her just turned 5 year old child.

Yes, my sister is also overweight, but her child is a little string-bean.

As my sister is waiting in the "boarding with children" line when a Southwest Airlines employee comes up and asks her if she is comfortable flying. My sister says, yeeeeessss..... not sure where he was going with his comments. Then he started to ask if she was comfortable in the seats, yeeeeessssss......then it dawns on her. He is specifically asking her this because she is fat and he confirmed it by then asking her if when she is sitting in the seat can she put the arm rests down because the law states she must fly with the arm rests down. She was livid, but what could she do? Yell at the guy in front of her child ? All she could say was that she was flying with her small child and there would not be a problem. She was near tears.

Mind you, the Southwest Airlines employee did this in front of EVERYONE. If Southwest Airlines has a problem with overweight people buying tickets from them, then they should say so at the time of purchase ! My sister found it very humiliating.

Though I agree with you they shouldn't have talked to your sister right in front of everyone, they have to ask her those questions then. Like Wheetsin said, if she couldn't get the armrests down she would ahve been forced to get another ticket.

Imagine what would happen if she sat down and couldn't get the armrests down. The staff wouldn't be able to know that till everyone is in the plane and they check everyone's seating. They would then (in front of everyone) notice she couldn't fit and tell her so, then and there. Now, not only is everyone hearing she is too big for the seat, but now people are upset cause she is holding things up.

This always gets me about some obese people. First they say I have a disease, or mental problem, or something else medical that makes them big. Fine, being obese would be a handicap, which is true since you can't do somethings a normal person can do.

So why can't airlines and others treat you like they do any other handicapped person? Is your handicap worse then others?

When I broke my leg and had a cast, was it wrong for them to ask me in line if I needed an front seat cause my leg wouldn't bend?

Obese people can't have it both ways. I just don't see how this is discimination.

[Daisalana 33]

Yeah, I have always bought my tickets online, and I think the only saving grace I had was my height displaced the 150lbs overweight, I was never required to buy 2 tickets. But for a year (pre-op) whenever I flew, I could have the arm rests down, but my belly would spill over. Normally I could manage to hold my self uncomfortably so I wouldn't disturb anyone (against the window, into the aisle, etc.). But there was one flight, I'm not sure how this happened.. I was middle seat on a small plane. I was near tears, I had to apologize to both people on either side of me cause my fat gut didn't fit inside my seat. That was one of my breaking points for getting the surgery. That, and I made sure no one else picked my seats ever again.

I no longer have this problem (THANK GOD!!), but I understood where it came from, and if I had been (rightfully) confronted to buy 2 seats, I would certainly be emberassed, but I don't think it's their fault.

[Manatee 4]

Sorry, but I just can't buy into the victim mentality here. Everyone knows that airplanes are cramped, shared spaces. If you're big enough to be worried about it, you shouldn't be surprised to find the employees to be worried about it too.

I know what it's like to be MO. It's insanity to pretend that nobody else notices, or to think that it's somehow rude for other people to mention it.

[anonemouse 1]

Just wanted to pass the word about what happened to my sister last month.

My sister was visiting me at the beginning of March. She flew with her just turned 5 year old child.

Yes, my sister is also overweight, but her child is a little string-bean.

As my sister is waiting in the "boarding with children" line when a Southwest Airlines employee comes up and asks her if she is comfortable flying. My sister says, yeeeeessss..... not sure where he was going with his comments. Then he started to ask if she was comfortable in the seats, yeeeeessssss......then it dawns on her. He is specifically asking her this because she is fat and he confirmed it by then asking her if when she is sitting in the seat can she put the arm rests down because the law states she must fly with the arm rests down. She was livid, but what could she do? Yell at the guy in front of her child ? All she could say was that she was flying with her small child and there would not be a problem. She was near tears.

Mind you, the Southwest Airlines employee did this in front of EVERYONE. If Southwest Airlines has a problem with overweight people buying tickets from them, then they should say so at the time of purchase ! My sister found it very humiliating.

I understand that it was embarassing for her, but he actually seemed to be fairly sensitive in the way he was asking the questions. He didn't go up to her and loudly say, "Yo, fattie! You're gonna need to buy another ticket."

An airline is a business, after all, and they have to make their policies based on what makes them the most money and what makes their customers happy. If they don't, their customers won't come back. And they likely see the whole extra seat situation as sacrificing one customers happiness for the satisfaction of the two customers that'd be sitting next to him/her. They may lose one customer, but they'd keep the other two.

[Doddie63 6]

Well in Canada, the Superior Courts ruled in favor of a handicap person. In that judgment, handicap people that need a full time attendant can purchase one ticket and the airlines must provide a second seat free for the attendant. This included POS. Now the airline are looking for a way of charging more. People are only two quick to say "the rest of us pay for our seats and are entitled", well so are POS. Airline seats are made with only 16" width so most of the people flying are POS. Seems to me the airline are "bullying" POS, knowing full well they are walking a thin line of discrimination. If someone had the money to take them to court it would be interesting what the American courts would say. I don't buy into the theory that because you are overweight you are not entitled to fly, use a bus, or train. If we have a death in the family have to get home 3,000 miles away, I should be entitled to a seat that fits. If there were oversize seats available on each plane, the airline could sell them to POS and/or so called normal bodies. Doddie

Edited April 13, 2008 by Doddie63

[snuffy65 1]

Well in Canada, the Superior Courts ruled in favor of a handicap person. In that judgment, handicap people that need a full time attendant can purchase one ticket and the airlines must provide a second seat free for the attendant. This included POS. Now the airline are looking for a way of charging more. People are only two quick to say "the rest of us pay for our seats and are entitled", well so are POS. Airline seats are made with only 16" width so most of the people flying are POS. Seems to me the airline are "bullying" POS, knowing full well they are walking a thin line of discrimination. If someone had the money to take them to court it would be interesting what the American courts would say. I don't buy into the theory that because you are overweight you are not entitled to fly, use a bus, or train. If we have a death in the family have to get home 3,000 miles away, I should be entitled to a seat that fits. If there were oversize seats available on each plane, the airline could sell them to POS and/or so called normal bodies. Doddie

Ya and if we double the size of the seats you might as well double the ticket prices too. Do you really think if it didn't cost much the airlines wouldn't just make lazy-boys recliners for all passengers?

If we have a death in the family have to get home 3,000 miles away, I should be entitled to a seat that fits. If there were oversize seats available on each plane, the airline could sell them to POS and/or so called normal bodies

This just amazes me. Why are you "ENTITLED" for a privatley owned company to cart your butt around?

In fact, most airlines give discounts and actually seen free tickets for someone who needs to make a funeral. Your not entitled to nothing but whats on that contract when you buy your ticket.

[shortgal 5]

Couldn't the airline just take one row of three seats and put in two larger seats instead?

Why does the world want to insist that we all become one generic size? Their seats are a size medium (maybe) and they make no allowances for taller people, either. My husband is 6' 4" and really suffers when flying on a full flight.

who can afford crazy first class prices?

Oh a ticket is a contract? That's correct and if I want to change the contract they want to charge me a fee, but if THEY change the contract do I get something back? No way!

[Manatee 4]

Couldn't the airline just take one row of three seats and put in two larger seats instead?

Why should they? If you want a more luxurious flight, pay for a business/first class seat.

Look, flying in coach sucks for everyone, but nobody is forcing you to fly.

[snuffy65 1]

Couldn't the airline just take one row of three seats and put in two larger seats instead?

They are called first class seats. Even if they did do that, why should someone else get more room then me when I paid the same price? Also, I would be even more embarrassed if I had to sit in the "fat" seats while everyone else passed me by.

Why does the world want to insist that we all become one generic size? Their seats are a size medium (maybe) and they make no allowances for taller people, either. My husband is 6' 4" and really suffers when flying on a full flight.

who can afford crazy first class prices?

I have a friend that goes to Vegas with me every year. He is 6'4" and never had a problem getting front row seats for leg space. NEVER!

Oh a ticket is a contract? That's correct and if I want to change the contract they want to charge me a fee, but if THEY change the contract do I get something back? No way!

They don't change the contract, if they did you could get your money back. Any change they do to your seating or flight schedule IS covered in the contract. So they don't change the contract.

Edited April 13, 2008 by snuffy65

[shortgal 5]

Somebody must work for the airlines! And, I get that it's getting harder for them to operate (mostly due to fuel costs) ( previously, it seemed like their financial trouble was caused by overly expensive pension payouts) but customer service is almost non existent.

And the "fat person" wouldn't be getting "more" room, they would be getting equal room.

Maybe your friend needs to go someplace other than Vegas, becasue while my husband always requests bulkhead or exit seats they are not always available. And we always check in early!

Right, they can put anything in the contract they want. Fair or not!

I reserved an early morning overseas flight. Flight is cancelled. Takes weeks before anyone notifies me, I end up with overnight flight. Totally different arrangement flying overnight rather than dayflight.

By the time I get to my destination, I will have been up anywhere from 26 to 30 hours, without being able to go to bed. So the only rest my tall husband and I will get is trying to sleep in that 16 wide seat. The airline changing my flight departure time by 8 hours later caused all that.

[snuffy65 1]

Somebody must work for the airlines! And, I get that it's getting harder for them to operate (mostly due to fuel costs) ( previously, it seemed like their financial trouble was caused by overly expensive pension payouts) but customer service is almost non existent.

And the "fat person" wouldn't be getting "more" room, they would be getting equal room.

Maybe your friend needs to go someplace other than Vegas, becasue while my husband always requests bulkhead or exit seats they are not always available. And we always check in early!

Right, they can put anything in the contract they want. Fair or not!

I reserved an early morning overseas flight. Flight is cancelled. Takes weeks before anyone notifies me, I end up with overnight flight. Totally different arrangement flying overnight rather than dayflight.

By the time I get to my destination, I will have been up anywhere from 26 to 30 hours, without being able to go to bed. So the only rest my tall husband and I will get is trying to sleep in that 16 wide seat. The airline changing my flight departure time by 8 hours later caused all that.

I don't work for the airlines. And my friend says he never has problems wherever he goes. I fly with him once a year so I am guessing he isn't lying cause he got the bulkhead evertime. He did however say that sometimes he has to pay a little fee to reserver that seat depending on what carrier he is useing then.

I am trying not to defend the airlines for their poor busines decisions. But aircraft makers spend alot of R&D on three aspects of commerical airplanes: Space saving, fuel effeciency, and low maintenance.

That one or two seats you want to "turn" into bigger seats would cost the airlines hundreds of thousands of dollars PER PLANE.

[snuffy65 1]

On another note, airlines have to work around weather and breakdowns of not only the directly affected flight but all flights that connect some how to that one. It would be stupid for a airline to write a contract stating they will accomdate everyone all the time everytime cause it couldn't happen. Weather delays and breakdowns happen enough that it would sink any airline who had to reimburse everyone for it.

But again, if you want more from your airline, you will either have to actually shop for a good airline and maybe even pay their "insurance" fee's instead of just looking on expedia for the lowest price.

Edited April 13, 2008 by snuffy65

[brandyII 9]

Airlines suck!