Just. Not. Fair.

[juliegeraci 7]

Hi Jachut, I am fine being overweight on the BMI scale. I have struggled to maintain 165 before and am perfect fine with a 14/16 frame at 5'8". More power to you! My surgeon is fine with my goal weight too. Julie

[Chickie 15]

Julie, no one is saying it's not ok to be happy with your body, but people must accept that they are not a healthy weight if they choose to be a BMI of over 24.9.

[juliegeraci 7]

Girlfriend, I have so been there. I have been as low as 164 and didn't feel quite right. That being said, I am so happy at size 16 and a BMI of 30. That puts be at 75% of my excess weight being loss which my surgeon is very pleased with. I am very happy at that 200 lbs. Julie

[shortgal 5]

Would it be better if I smoked to keep my weight down to a normal BMI or be slightly overweight and not smoke?

As I have said before, there are other factors. I've know thin "normal" BMI people with very unheathly eating habits, too much drinking, too much smoking, high blood pressure, high cholesterol. My SIL is normal BMI, but the amount of chocolate she eats in one day, is ridiculous, so other food must be being avoided to be "normal" weight.

i would not say that makes her any healthier than someone a little heavier. Of course I would agee that obese is not good for most people, but a little overweight is not always such a bad thing.

Perhaps it's the difference in acceptance of this theory, between the US and Australia.

I think the angle of the photo of the girl in the bikini is an unflattering angle and makes her look larger than she might appear in person.

[juliegeraci 7]

I am totally fine wearing a bikini top with a little skirt at size 14 or 16. I look good for my frame and although I am 30 BMI I look good and my doctor supports me. There is nothing wrong with having a little meat on your bones. That is coming from someone who use to weigh 320 lbs!

[Chickie 15]

Would it be better if I smoked to keep my weight down to a normal BMI or be slightly overweight and not smoke?

As I have said before, there are other factors. I've know thin "normal" BMI people with very unheathly eating habits, too much drinking, too much smoking, high blood pressure, high cholesterol. My SIL is normal BMI, but the amount of chocolate she eats in one day, is ridiculous, so other food must be being avoided to be "normal" weight.

i would not say that makes her any healthier than someone a little heavier. Of course I would agee that obese is not good for most people, but a little overweight is not always such a bad thing.

Perhaps it's the difference in acceptance of this theory, between the US and Australia.

I think the angle of the photo of the girl in the bikini is an unflattering angle and makes her look larger than she might appear in person.

Are you dense?

No one is talking about smoking. If you want to be fat, that is fine, but don't say you are a healthy weight, because you are not.

The major difference between AU and the US is that we don't see obesity as 'normal" yet, therefore we don't see this girl as a healthy weight.

[shortgal 5]

No I am NOT dense! Are you?

A healthy weight does not always equal good health and the smoking is just ONE EXAMPLE.

I am asking if you saw two people that you did not know walking down the street and one was normal weight and one was overweight would you automatically assume that the thinner one was healthier?

That is my point, what you SEE, is not always reality. A thin person might have cancer and be thin because of chemo, but most people would not consider them to to healthy.

I'm just not hung up on some ambiguous chart to tell me what normal is and you are. And you seem to keep implying that all people that are thin are heathly. And that people that are not "normal" BMI are not.

An anorexic is thin, but not necessarily healthy. And YES, some people are both THIN and HEALTHY. And some overweight people can be healthy too. The BMI charts do not take into account some with a lot of muscle mass.

[Jachut 487]

To be honest, no, I wouldnt assume the thinner girl was healthier. Not at all. I know that health does not always equate with weight and a healthy weight range is nothing more than a statistical average for height. Being a BMI of 26 does not make you unhealthy.

However a) I'd argue this girl weighs more than she says she does and I have concerns about what she weighs given she's only 17.

To reach a BMI of 26 after having been morbidly obese is a huge achievement and one to be applauded. To look the way they want to is anyone's right. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and to most people, that girl sure isnt ugly.

But I wish you'd READ the posts before going off on a tangent about how happy you all are with your bodies. That's fantastic. I didnt say anything about anyone personally, but realise that you fit a different category becuase you've been morbidly obese. Julie, for example, you've lost tons of weight, you've done brilliantly. You've increased your lifespan, done wonderful things for your health, you're happy with your body - and mental health is every bit as important as physical health. I dont think its healthy to live a life obsessed with maintaining 165lb.

But listen to what I'm saying.

This girl is 17. She's quite significantly overweight for a teenager. As a teen, you DONT get to be ovrweight without bad lifestyle habits and choices, young bodies want to be skinny. To be overweight at 17 is statistically virtually a guarantee that you'll be obese by adulthood - that's not a bit of puppy fat she's carrying, she's hefty (even if she's gorgeous)! Look at her face, and her thighs, she's packing some serious weight there, beautiful though she is. Give her 15 years, a couple of babies and a full time job and she's gonna be huge, no doubt about it. To hold her up as a role model, as "normal" is irresponsible and wrong. She's not a 40 year old who's been previously obese, she's a 17 year old who would never have gotten to that sort of a weight without bad lifestyle habits and choices. She is no role model for health.

It has got NOTHING to do with what I think is fat, thin, attractive or unattractive, nor what you think either. Its fact. Statistically she's a lap band waiting to happen.

To roll over and accept fat as "normal" simply becuase more and more people are becoming that way is burying our heads in the sand and it is not fair to our children.

Edited April 8, 2008 by Jachut

[anonemouse 1]

No I am NOT dense! Are you?

A healthy weight does not always equal good health and the smoking is just ONE EXAMPLE.

I am asking if you saw two people that you did not know walking down the street and one was normal weight and one was overweight would you automatically assume that the thinner one was healthier?

That is my point, what you SEE, is not always reality. A thin person might have cancer and be thin because of chemo, but most people would not consider them to to healthy.

I'm just not hung up on some ambiguous chart to tell me what normal is and you are. And you seem to keep implying that all people that are thin are heathly. And that people that are not "normal" BMI are not.

An anorexic is thin, but not necessarily healthy. And YES, some people are both THIN and HEALTHY. And some overweight people can be healthy too. The BMI charts do not take into account some with a lot of muscle mass.

I don't think Chickie and Jachut are implying that at all. The simple fact is that, statistically, someone with a BMI that places them in the "overweight" or "obese" range is much more likely to have health problems as a result of their excess weight. There is no way to get around that. Now, of course, BMI doesn't paint the whole picture. Yes, people with a "healthy" BMI can be unhealthy. Yes, "overweight" people can be healthy. And yes, BMI can be misleading, depending on how much muscle weight you carry (but honestly, unless you're a muscle-bound body-builder, it isn't grossly incorrect). But the plain likelihood is that an overweight person - whose excess weight is fat, not muscle - has a much higher chance of having health problems due to their weight.

The girl is beautiful. But she is overweight. Not severely, but it is there. And at her age, like Jachut says, that's not a good indicator for her future weight. So, IMO, that's not something our children should be aiming for.

[Chickie 15]

Shortgal, I know you have a hard on for me, but stop and listen... A healthy BMI is an indication that a person is likely to be healthy. And unhealthy BMI is an indication that person is unhealthy.

For example. Two people who are the same age, don't drink, smoke do drugs, anything nasty. One is smack in the middle of a healthy BMI, and the other is smack in the middle of morbidly obese. Who, statistically is going to be healthier? The person who is MO, or the person with a healthy BMI? The person who is MO is likely to have blood pressure issues, diabetes, sleep apnea and a myriad of other problems that most people who have a healthy weight and lifestyle just don't have.

It has nothing to do with how attractive being fat or thin is. The way people look has nothing to do with being obese, or morbidly obese.

And let's face it. If morbidly obese wasn't a chronic issue, it wouldn't be called being MORBIDLY OBESE. They would pick a nicer, less scary sounding name for it.

Perhaps my perception of what is overweight is skewed by the fact that I don't live in a country where obesity is the norm.

[Jachut 487]

Oh, I just opened the second link to the article in Snuffy's post, I hadnt seen that. It echos everything I think about this situation.

Great looking girl. Terrible role model for the health of young women.

[shortgal 5]

Jachut, I agree with what you are saying. My issue is that we are on a forum for people that have a problem with weight and food (as you and chickie once did). They work so hard to change that with the lapband and changes in lifestyle etc and for many on here, they will just never be a "normal BMI" and it feels to me that it is a BIG insult and similar to bullying when the reference to healthy and overweight are continually being made, when the original subject of some of the threads has nothing to do with that topic.

Yes, that girl is overweight. Yes, she could be headed for severe obesity as she ages. But she is also an oppsoing example to all the Nicole Ritchie's or one of the Olsen twins that weigh 95 and less and can also be a bad example to young people as well.

To tell people on a forum like this that the only way they are healthy is if they acheive a BMI of 24.9 or less is insulting to the many people that work hard but cannot acheive your definition of healthy.

I agree a healthy weight should be everyone's goal but weight ALONE should not indicate health.

Chickie: You way overestimate yourself. And are you unable to have a debate with someone on a topic without childish comments and attacks? And who died and made you GOD of everyone's ideal weight?

[Chickie 15]

Chickie: You way overestimate yourself. And are you unable to have a debate with someone on a topic without childish comments and attacks? And who died and made you GOD of everyone's ideal weight?

There is little point in arguing with someone who is always "right". My father in law is much the same, I suspect it has something to do with advanced age.

I will say this though. This girl's weight WAS the issue. It is in the media, and it is here. The who point was that she is a plus sized beauty queen. So saying her weight has nothing to do with this thread is wrong I am afraid.

And because a healthy weight is something you personally don't aspire to / can't get to / don't want to be does not change the fact that a healthy weight is just that - A healthy weight. Calling me childish, and saying I have attacked you in this thread is not going to change that.

Call a healthy weight "unattractive' if you wish, like you have in other threads, but I am reminded of Aesop's fable about the fox and the grapes.

You might want to google it.

Just as a side note, I am not God of anything, sadly. For if I was, I would wave my hand and be able to run a 15 minute 5k, would make poverty history, fix that pesky global warming problem, and lot's of other things before I was to worry about the BMI of the masses, but I am pretty sure I would be good at multi tasking, so I don't know... Maybe I could fix it all. But God being God, he can't die.. Unless you worship something / one who is mortal, then they might die, but unless that is the case... No. I am still not God. Sorry. I can't fix you.

[shortgal 5]

You left out curing all disease, but get back to me when you mature and get to a more ADVANCED age. The word advance generally has a positive meaning and in this case, I think it does as well. Yes, I'm advanced compared to you.

A healthy weight has a range and on some people a healthy weight at the lowest range according to the "charts" can look too thin for my taste. Usually one can tell when someone carries that lowest ideal weight well and when they don't. Asian people tend to have very thin frames and those low end weights work on them, for others they just look bad, to me.

I just don't try to preach to people that they are unhealthy becasue they don't reach a normal BMI according to some chart. I think it's rude and as someone that once suffered from obesity as you did, I would think you'd have more compassion and understanding.

It reminds me of the people that suddenly "find" religion and yell it out on street corners with bull horns.

We will never agree on ths subject. My opinion on this Normal BMI thing does not change the incredible work you have done to acheive your weight goals. If being a Normal BMI is your goal then you have acheived that. That's great. Please understand that other people have different goals and not just about weight. We all can prioritize our individual goals.

I am not broken and don't need to be fixed.

[Chickie 15]

Asian people tend to have very thin frames and those low end weights work on them, for others they just look bad, to me.

Wow, Ok. You are just a peach, aren't you?