Are We ready for a Black President?

[plain 12]

Hey Green, just curious....Do you think race relations in Canada are better than in the US?

[BJean 16]

green kinda straightened out my meaning a little. I get what you're saying Watcher and I meant to agree with your post, as green did, and there again the written word is not always interpreted as intended.

My other point being that the very people who put labels on others, happen to be just as mixed racially as those they have judged to be one race or other.

That one drop of blood thing that used to be in the Virginia Constitution really made my blood boil. Wonder if it is still lurking there...

I believe that open forums like this that encourage these kinds of discussions can be very helpful to some people who have never really thought about it.

When I lived in Canada, I did not observe the racial discrimination that I have seen in the lower states. I was in Quebec Province though. green's further west I think, if that has any bearing.

[plain 12]

Yeah, I'm curious. Seems like there's racial strife worldwide. I was talking with some relatives from Australia, and they made some derogatory comments about the Aboriginal peoples there. I was kinda shocked.

[green 6]

Wow! This is a tough question to tax my morning brain with but it is an interesting qestion. At one time, when I was must younger I would say that Canada does it best and it is true that on those international poles Canada always shines as the star. It is true that most Canadians would be content (the question they always seem to eventually ask, eh) to have Muslims, atheists or blacks living nextdoor. And I think we really do feel this way as long as the Muslim, Atheist or black do all the good neighbour stuff. My own street is a case in point: on it we have Muslims, Poles, Canadians, Greeks, Italians, Koreans and I am the token Canadain atheist. We also have blue collar workers and a university prof and his wife, a lawyer, and everything in between, included suspected dope dealers. A lot of variety concidering that this city street is one long city block long. What seems to have made this microcoosm work is that people are quiet but friendly towards each other. No grudges have been imported into the street. Another think that helps, I believe, is that this is a street with front porches, People like to sit on them and observe the rest of us. This leads to talking and talking leads to friendliness.

Sadly, there is one group who do see to be having a hard time of making it in Canadian society: young black men. They join clubs, obtain illeagle firearms, and seem to hate everybody but themseves. They jostle people in malls trying to pick knife fights. It is a really sad state of affairs. These young men had never been a force to be reckonded with before but because our immigration rules permitted nannies to eventually apply for citizenship status these pleasant, hardworking woman were eventually allowed to import their offspring who aere by now well into their teens. The out of control black teenager phenomenum is only about 2-3 decades old but noboy knows much want to do about it. These kids have managed to turned a generation of carefully raised non-racists into racists by their behaviour. And of course the endless refrain is blame whitey.

Well, while it is true that Canada had displayed cruel racial policies towards all of her non-white citizens in earlier eras, apologies had been made and these folks, the Japanese, Koreans, South Asians did manage to ignore these insults and go on and profit from living in this country. Too, Canada gave succor to American slaves. Once you reached Canada you were pretty much home free. Our angry black youth seem to have their roots in Jamaica. This anger really is a pity and is pershaps specious; there is enough room for everyone in this large, cool country.

[green 6]

Ooops, sorry for the wall of text. I really didn't mean for that to happen. Argh!

[BJean 16]

I'm curious green. Why do you think that there is a Jamacian black teen problem? Do you think that they are really angry individuals because of their perceived plight in life in general, or are they angry because of the way they actually are treated? Or do you think that they are mimicking some of the gang behavior that is so heavily reported in the mainstream media in the U.S.? Since gangsta rap and all that are really popular now. Do you think that has anything to do with it?

Or is your guess (I'm assuming a guess) that it is due to something quite different?

[green 6]

I'm curious green. Why do you think that there is a Jamacian black teen problem? Do you think that they are really angry individuals because of their perceived plight in life in general, or are they angry because of the way they actually are treated? Or do you think that they are mimicking some of the gang behavior that is so heavily reported in the mainstream media in the U.S.? Since gangsta rap and all that are really popular now. Do you think that has anything to do with it?

Or is your guess (I'm assuming a guess) that it is due to something quite different?

Well, for starters, all teenagers are upset and angry. This is something which goes along with changing hormones and is a phenonomen which has been pretty extensively documented. The teenage years are when the brain undergoes a huge amount of alteration during its development and as any parent can tell you teenagers do have very volatile emotions. This is why many countries, this one included, have a different series of punishments, ones which are less severe, for teenage criminals.

Teenagers do turn to listen to and learn from their peer groups, not their families. Teenages may regard all of this as living in one giant comic book and attach little if any importance or sense of reality to all the murder and bloodshed. They will follow what goes on south of the border: we so often do. If you have absorbed negative messages about yourself it is easy to be drawn in by the messages of impowerment and belonging given out by the gangs.

Also these guys do get a poor sense of their own value. Most of them come from poor and fatherless homes. Not coming from a two parent family seems to be a severe draw back the experts are now recognizing and coming from poverty is always a drag.

Black kids are tending to act out more and then they get blamed more and then this is blamed on endemic racism and sometimes, just to complicate matters up a little more, the kids didn't do but were blamed anyway out of lowered expectations. This has got to hurt and to make the kid feel much more bitter.

I don't know what the situation is and I don't know what it is going to take to get over it, and I don't know why the other notable by difference in skin colour minorities were able to succeed when the black brothers were not. My hunch is that it has to do with people staying together in families. Strength in numbers, eh.

Anyhow, come to Toronto and you will meet a lot of very nice folks in all ethnic groups. This was a long post for me to say that I am kind of baffled about the reasons for these matters.

[BJean 16]

Well you don't sound baffled. More like you have a pretty good grip on it.

Of course I don't expect you're a sociologist doing all sorts of studies on the problem. But I always enjoy hearing about your homeland and your assessment of situations.

Thanks for your response.

I trust you're feeling a little better?

[plain 12]

Wow.....although I remain independant, I will say that Obama gave a fantastic speech. He really knocked it out of the park. I liked his aggressive energy stance, and that's the key issue for me (since I believe that energy has led directly to the downturn of the economy).

[BJean 16]

Well I'll be doggone plain. That's the smartest thing I've seen you write. His speech was awesome, I don't care what your party affiliation or even your country. That man can deliver a speech like nobody's business. I hope he gets the chance to prove that he can deliver on his promises as well.

I know Jack... you think that he has a snowball's chance of doing any of those things for us, but geez, we gotta try for it! We can't keep on this way. Unless you're a wealthy person, how can you vote for the Republican candidates this time? I feel like the bad guys have highjacked the Republican party and it has become some kind of monster that has run away from all of the values the party once stood for. Oh they say that they still believe in those things, but they do not operate that way. My trust for any of the Bush supporters (and McCain is one) has long gone by the wayside.

Thank goodness someone inspirational and uplifting is offering something that we can be feel united with. How refreshing after 8 long years! :biggrin:

[Nanook 2]

I second the emotion!! B. Obama can really rally people together, Nancy!

[TheWatcher 1]

Thats what i have been saying all along... its goon how people are seriously giving him at least the benefit of the doubt now... i mean my favorite line from the speech has got to be "im not willing to take a 10% chance on change" :thumbup:classic:thumbup:

[plain 12]

Well I'll be doggone plain. That's the smartest thing I've seen you write. His speech was awesome, I don't care what your party affiliation or even your country. That man can deliver a speech like nobody's business. I hope he gets the chance to prove that he can deliver on his promises as well.

I know Jack... you think that he has a snowball's chance of doing any of those things for us, but geez, we gotta try for it! We can't keep on this way. Unless you're a wealthy person, how can you vote for the Republican candidates this time? I feel like the bad guys have highjacked the Republican party and it has become some kind of monster that has run away from all of the values the party once stood for. Oh they say that they still believe in those things, but they do not operate that way. My trust for any of the Bush supporters (and McCain is one) has long gone by the wayside.

Thank goodness someone inspirational and uplifting is offering something that we can be feel united with. How refreshing after 8 long years! :biggrin:

Oh, I'm not ruling out McCain or the republicans yet. Here is the heart of the matter, BJean (IMO)...Wealth didn't draw me to the Republican party (heck, I'm a registered independent), although I have voted republican 3 of the last 5 elections. To me, it's the basic theory of government. Republicans generally believe in less federal government and more states' rights (Democrats the opposite). Because republicans generally believe in less government regulation, some wealthy business types that benefit from less regulation support them. That (and certain economic theories, ie trickle down) have led to the perception that the republican party is for "the rich".

By and large, the democrats want to support a lot of worthwhile populations and programs. That's fantastic....but they (generally) want to raise taxes to pay for these programs. Example (an extreme one, I'll concede): I'm a little reluctant to think that my tax dollars in Texas might go to pay for a sex change operation for some dude in California. Note I'm not saying that I don't want the dude to get the operation....I'm saying I don't want to pay for it. Now if the citizens of California vote to pay for such a surgery for their citizens, I'm cool with that. I believe that the less power and intrusion the government has into our lives, the better (in theory, I'm really more of a libertarian, but our current two party system has killed every other ideaology).

Having said that, I might very well vote democrat. I haven't decided yet. If I do vote democrat, it won't be because I'm not rich, or because I have a grudge against Bush or his administration, but because we desperately need to bite the bullet now and change our dependence on foreign oil by 10 years time. Sorry for the novel-length post...can you tell I'm a bit bored at work? lol

[BJean 16]

Hey plain, that was a great explanation of your thoughts on the matter. I respect your opinion. I know that the Republicans have always run on the platform of less government. Unfortunately under the current administration, the government has become much, much bigger and more intrusive into our lives. Sure I understand the reasoning - it's been due to the terrorist threat, but I absolutely hate it because I know that it goes totally against what the country was founded on and what I personally believe in - and it's against the law.

One of my chief gripes about this administration has been that they say they are all for one thing, but that is not the course of action that they take. And everyone seems to be oblivious to it. I don't think that the media finds much mileage in reporting on that and besides it can be pretty complicated and detailed. I do think that the Karl Roves of this political group have ruined it for people like you who like what the Republians stand for (or stood for) but they have bastardized it all and have gyped good Republicans out of what they think they're voting for.

All this is IMHO, of course. My DH sees it differently for the most part, although there's no disagreement about how the government has been made more expansive under this administration. I agree with you though that keeping as much as possible at the state level, we have a better chance of getting what we want. I don't want to pay for anybody's sex change operation, no matter what state they live in. I don't think anybody wants to pay for my cosmetic surgery either.

And btw, trickle down economics is voodoo as far as I'm concerned. Have you counted the number of billionaires that we have in this country now? Do you know why our economy has produced so many new billionaires in the past few years? Does it make any sense in light of what has happened to the regular working folks economic status? So far, it ain't trickling down, it's shooting up.

Ok now I have to apologize for the long-winded post. Well by now you know when I sit down at the computer, I just type out whatever I'm thinking and it's encumbent upon you all to just look away!!! :biggrin:

P.S. TheWatcher: I enjoyed that line of Senator Obama's tonight too. But my favorite had to be from the regular guy, Barney Smith who said he wants a goverment that cares more about Barney Smith instead of Smith Barney. Har.

[TheWatcher 1]

Jack .... jack jack jack... all i scan ask is did you watch the speech or did you listen to it... because if you watched it then well i cant help you believe in something that you fully get a comprehension on. You needed to listen to that speech and realize that its not about him its about you ... that speech was nothing more that a rallying call to all

Americans to stand up together and do more... to want better. and to make better happen. Obama throws himself down as a tool to help grease the wheels ... but if we want the changes that he promises we must fight for it. the Change he speaks of can only be brought about tbu the American people engaging and actively applying our power to make things happen. Thats what you would have under stoop if you listened to the speech instead of watched it.... heres what you can do dl the speech and replace the word i with you.... or us ... or American people and see if the power of that speech doesnt shine though...