Are We ready for a Black President?

[luluc 6]

Mistakes happen. I don't believe that your misplaced voter card was fraud, but most likely a mistake.

i actually do believe that it was purposeful for my registration not be in place. i have followed the following website:

Request for Voter Registration Applications

to ensure my registration all along, and filed 2 more times since june (didn't include that in previous post). so in TRYING to register 3 times since june; i'm going with my gut instinct of fraud or the Potential. and i'll bet - BET this will not be the last we hear of such instances....most haven't followed up, if indeed they are "registered". we'll find out when they show up on election day to vote.

after 4 trys - i got my voters card on the LAST day to register in TX 10.6...should be a bit more efficient in my mind;

[BJean 16]

Hey what if you went to Harlem (or anywhere) and did the same thing only using Obama policies with McCain supporters. Do you really think that there would be any obvious differences in them?

Ever watched "Jay Walking" on the Tonight Show?

Anyway, you certainly have no right dissing me for what I posted.

[plain 12]

BJean: re: "did the same thing only using Obama policies with McCain supporters. Do you really think that there would be any obvious differences in them?"

of course BJean....McCain supporters make a choice as to what issues they support based what policies and social theory they may believe. Which is what voters are supposed to do.

Your suggestion of seeking McCain supporters with Obamas positions would certainly be interesting.

I'd like to believe 'most voters' are a step ahead of the 'jaywalkers' things I've seen.

re: 'dissin' you?? I don't see the connection. What you post is your business, as is whatever you believe. If you hang it out in public, it would appear you are inviting discussion or commentary. We already have agreed we have completely opposite political opinions, haven't we?

Disagreeing with you is not the same as 'dissin' you.

This thread title is 'Are We ready for a Black President'. Obviously some are, regardless of what the candidates positions may be.

Sen Obama is a powerful debater and makes great speeches. I wish he weren't a liberal socialist.

In summary, yes, we are ready for a black president. The real question is, "Are we ready for a president that believes in forcing some Americans to give up their money to other Americans"?

[stevegoad 32]

In summary, yes, we are ready for a black president. The real question is, "Are we ready for a president that believes in forcing some Americans to give up their money to other Americans"?

I'm going to say something that people will think is crazy.

I own a small business. This is the first year, and this year like many new start companies, I am going to lose money - I invested more into the business than I earned.

One day, I do hope my recording studio earns more than 250,000. When that time comes, if I am asked to pay a bit more in taxes, so be it. I will be making money, and I won't be offended to pay taxes.

(BTW... I expect I will still give more to charity than I do to taxes anyway for what that's worth).

For me, it is not I am not as worried about what the want me to give as I am what they do with it. I am glad to pay taxes as long as government is responsible.

[plain 12]

I'm going to say something that people will think is crazy.

I own a small business. This is the first year, and this year like many new start companies, I am going to lose money - I invested more into the business than I earned.

One day, I do hope my recording studio earns more than 250,000. When that time comes, if I am asked to pay a bit more in taxes, so be it. I will be making money, and I won't be offended to pay taxes.

(BTW... I expect I will still give more to charity than I do to taxes anyway for what that's worth).

For me, it is not I am not as worried about what the want me to give as I am what they do with it. I am glad to pay taxes as long as government is responsible.

You know, Steve, I don't think that's crazy at all. In fact, the American dream is to work hard, make money, and give Uncle Sam his due. What I think is unfair, though, is to severely increase taxes in relation to what your studio is bringing in.

See, I kind of think of it as the law of diminishing returns, by increasing the percentage at which you're taxed. At some point, it's just not worth putting in the effort to work, since you still have to do the full amount of work for far less profit. This seems to me to discourage small business from working as hard. Also, it would seem to discourage the other end, the poor person (and I'm waaaaay closer to that end of the spectrum) from working hard, since there is also a point of diminished returns there (ie, I get x amount of federal support from not working at all. If I have to physically get out and work, I'm only gonna make Y).

I am not wealthy....My combined family income isn't nearly half of the 250,000...but I still think that redistribution of wealth is not what America is about.

[Donna113 2]

Why is $250K the magic number? $250 today isn't wealthy.

[TheWatcher 1]

In summary, yes, we are ready for a black president. The real question is, "Are we ready for a president that believes in forcing some Americans to give up their money to other Americans"?

*** sorry i meant to post something profound and ended up venting***

but thats not even the deal.... taxes are part of living in this country.... its called paying your dues... the wealthy can do more experience and live America more ... why not have they pay a little more to those who has to work harder and can only afford to live a little ... i mean God the selfishness is mind boggling... its a i got mine you can go @#$% off type of attitude.

the fortunate should help the unfortunate .... it just that simple... no buts, exceptions, or excuses. we rise together we fall together.... i guess the wealthy just forgot all about that. and the fact is that they haven't been doing their fair share... because my boss is rich he gets to take the European vacation , drive the 645ci, have a main, summer and beach home, work less hours, get better perks and benefits, and pay 9% less taxes that me too... the hell with that selfish bastards obama is talking about taking wealthy people from 36% to 39% im !#$%ing at 42% as of last tax season and i make 88k less a year than he does and he still is complaining about higher taxes that under obama's plan he wouldn't even see.

people like me Struggle to stay afloat and people still wanna give breaks and perks to the people who could most likely pay for it outright.... wth is going through peoples heads....they want vote for a person who will give tax breaks to a rich company over a individual whos trying hard or a family.....

i need to stop before i get any angrier...

plain thx for posing that questions .... i really needed to vent...

Edited October 17, 2008 by TheWatcher

[Wheetsin 714]

What they do with the money is a big factor. Higher taxes isn't always a bad thing, if you're going to see long term benefits out of it, but people have strong knee-jerk reactions to those two words and immediately want to vote for whatever keeps their wallets closed. Too bad we can't allocate where our tax dollars go. :smile:

I don't think the "rich" (talking on the level of individuals) should pay disproportionately higher than "middle class." The amount will be higher, the rate should not be. I've always believed this, and it's why I'm a strong advocate for a flat tax system. My 10% may be $25,000 and your 10% may be $250. I'm paying way more than you, but I have no problem with it because we're still paying the same 10%. My problems come in when I'm paying 46% and you're paying 13%, and come next year you're getting more back in EIC than you made.

I have a nice income. Without having pursued my education and worked hard to reach this level of my career, I would not have that income. In the last 8-10 years or so I've been able to pay my tuition bills out of pocket, but prior to that I had to take out student loans. I'm still paying for my two degrees, two degrees later, and right now my student loan payment is my second most significant debt next to my mortgage. I pay more in student loans every month than most in our area pay for rent. It's true that as income goes up, debt usually does too, but often people attribute that too "expensive car notes" or "excessively large home mortgages" or "bad spending" -- and sometimes, there's just legitimately more debt. That's just the financial side of it. There are still the choices I made to give up the time with my family and other activities I would have much rather been doing in order to improve my situation long-term. So "you have more, you can pay more" doesn't hold much Water with me. Yeah, I have more, and it has come at a cost that I'm still trying to cover, and some costs I will never get back. But it was my choice, and I deserve to enjoy the rewards of my work/effort, not hand them over to someone else who hasn't made the same efforts.

"Penalizing" me by making me pay a higher rate of my money than someone who did not make the same efforts or made the same efforts but chose a different career or whatever ad nauseum basically says, "You shouldn't have put in the effort because you aren't going to see much in return" and IMO will go far toward lowering people's motivations to better their situations.

Communist Marxist economic fundamentals aren't horrible, but they do require a certain skeleton of goods to be in place and a society that isn't "entitled to mine" -- which we just aren't going to have. :frown:

[gadgetlady 4]

How dare you want a fair tax, Wheetsin? A fair tax isn't fair because it means the millionaires get to keep the same percentage of their money that I do. That's not fair at all! They should have to pay more, more, more, just so I don't have to! Fairness means that once you're successful, you are required to give it to other people, regardless of what you've been through to get there. It's only fair!

[BJean 16]

You all seem to be buying into the "trickle down" theory of economics.

Keep the rich wealthy and provide as many ways as possible for them to expand their bank accounts. Of course the "trickle down" theory (the Republican proponents of it) doesn't say exactly that. What they say it represents is that the wealthy folks will allow their huge profits trickle down to us little guys. They say it will provide more jobs and more opportunities across the board for people to also become better off financially. That's their reasoning behind why the rich folks and corporations should not have to pay their fair share in taxes.

We all know that if you are wealthy or even upper middle class, there's a very good chance that you are taking advantage of many ways to avoid paying your "fair share." Trust me, everyone I know who has money (if you'll pardon the expression) does not pay a whole lot of what they earn in income taxes. Everyone has shelters and we use them.

On the other hand, we all use our roads, we enjoy having an election board that takes care of the elections, we reap the rewards of a public education school system (except those of us who home school or send our kids to private school). We want a government run military, fire prevention and police system. We want decent roads. We want a competent penal system and a honest and competent court system. We want public utilities (in some cases) and we want some oversight into things like our telephone companies and other necessary but privately owned companies. The list could go on and on. We not only want all these things, we demand them. It is what makes us such a strong and wonderful nation.

How do you expect to pay for everything that the government provides, donations?

What we need is a congress with a backbone and a president to ride rough shod over them. What we've had for 12 of the past 14 years is a Republican congress and a Republican president for 8 of those years who believes in rewarding big business; banks, the stock market and wealthy individuals.

THAT is what is not fair. Paying taxes is a necessity. Being someone who is middle class in America means that you have been bogged down with a huge burden (the amazing deficit) that your president, G.W. Bush, has given you and who has done a really stupid thing by fooling you into thinking he was doing you a service by giving you a tax cut, what? a check for $600? Think what he's done with the rest of the money you sent in. He is costing us billions - BILLIONS - every week with the war in Iraq. He's put the oil companies in the position of being so greedy that we can hardly afford to drive to work. He's supported sticking it to 95% of Americans while being more than generous to the fat cats and making them nearly invisible and mostly unaccountable to us.

Now it is time for the very wealthy to pay their fair share. They've gotten away with murder for the past 8 or so years and now it has come home to roost right on their doorsteps.

If you are a middle class individual and you think what you've been getting from your government in the past 8 years has been fair to you, I don't think you understand the big picture. Don't listen to the Republicans mantra of "no more taxes" because it is complete and utter B.S. They will raise your taxes and they will continue to fight for the greedy folks who know how to avoid taxes and they will continue to tell you that it is because these businesses are keeping Americans employed.

Yeah, sure. That's why they have sent jobs overseas and why they've cut jobs in America to such a point that many people are doing the work of 2 or 3 people. Not to cut the price of their commodity or to pay their workers more - nope it is to make the individuals at the very top of the heap bigger salaries, more bonuses (obscene bonuses) and better returns on wall street.

Wake up folks. Stop believing what the Republicans have sold you to scare you into thinking you're going to be financially hurt by a Democratic president. Our very intelligent Democratic presidential candidate gives us some hope that we can get back to having some kind of fairness in government. What we've had with the Republicans is obscene and in many practical ways, dishonest. And if you don't believe me, geez, believe your lying eyes.

[Donna113 2]

Fair is subjective depending on which side of the line you stand.

I love my greenhouse which is full of great organic herbs that I can enjoy year round. I share them with my friends and co-workers and it gives me great pleasure to do so. However, if my neighbor decided that since I had more than I could reasonably consume, it would be OK for her to come and take a pinch here and there, I'd be very upset. It's my greenhouse; my husband built it with his own bare hands; I planted the herbs and I lovingly look after them to ensure they continue to yield good crops. Why is it fair for my neighbor to come get a pinch of it because I have more than I need and she doesn't have enough? Why should my labor benefit her? That's called unjust enrichment brought to you courtesy of socialism.

[BJean 16]

It is very easy to say that we work for our money and nobody should have the right to take it from us.

It is easy to say that we shouldn't have to kick in any of our income for the things needed to run America.

It is easy to say that everybody is on the dole and that you should not have to put food on anybody else's table unless you choose to.

It is easy to say that government is run by incompetents. It is easy to say that the government doesn't employ anything but incompetents.

It is easy to say that there are some really lousy govenment programs and therefore all government programs are lousy.

It is easy to disagree with how our public education system is run, and how our public utilities, our roads, our medical, our military and every other system in our fabulous country is run.

All of that is easy to say and very difficult to disprove because there is an element of truth in each and every statement. But it is not the whole truth and it doesn't solve a damn thing to state those things loudly with our hands on our hips, acting all wounded and feeling taken advantage of.

Spouting those partial truths only serve to criticize. It only serves to instill fear. It only serves to make us all feel cheated by our government and to disrespect the very things that make this country strong. It does absolutely nothing to solve the real problems in our government.

What have you done to change the things that you believe are weak and unjust in our country?

Do you think that by electing another Republican there is a snow ball's chance in hell of making things better than they are? Where've you been for the past 8 years? (For Jack, what I mean is where have you been looking with your lying eyes?)

Is your life better than it was, has it improved that much? In what ways has your life improved during the past 8 years that relate to any of those things you're complaining about?

Has our economy improved?

Has our government become smaller?

Have you been given any kind of significant tax relief?

Have there been more jobs created?

Have there been lots of poorly run government programs abolished?

Has the educational system improved?

Has our environment improved?

Has the government purged itself of incompetent employees?

Has our infrastructure that is falling apart improved?

Have we begun to provide more benefits for our military returning from Iraq?

Have we begun to invent ways of becoming independent on Middle Eastern Oil? Have our gas prices gone down or even stayed the same?

Having a hard time thinking of the government, our Repunlican political leaders, in the same context as improving all those things?

Well, that's what I mean by your lying eyes. It's all right in front of us and yet we deny it. We continue to repeat all the politically driven claims that have an element of truth, but which are in the big picture, nothing but lies and ways to manipulate the voters.

The Republican rehtoric stinks to high heaven. This has been a very, very open campaign and I believe it has served us all well. We know for sure who these candidates are and we know for sure what they plan to do.

I believe that the Sarah and Todd Palin approach to government, the extreme right wing approach to government, is a threat to our Constitutional rights and our beloved American way of life. We've had quite enough of it from the current Republican administration and let's hope that the door is closing on that horrible, horrible chapter in our American History book.

[floridaMary 0]

I could care less if the next president is black. I want SMART. I want someone who is curious about the larger world. I want someone who doesn't always want to settle disputes with a "might is right" mentality. I am sick of the past 8 years. I have seen nothing "trickle down" but I have seen a lot trickle out of this country. I have seen our standing in the world trickle to a new low. The country is as ready as it wants to be. Was the country ready for two wars? No one asked that question!

[Donna113 2]

I didn't realize Obama was the 2nd coming. Is he really going to solve all those problems? Wow

If I vote for him and he doesn't solve all our problems, will you guarantee me that you will lead the movement to have him impeached for misrepresentation?

[BJean 16]

I certainly never said that any one person could solve all of the problems that you and others want to go away and seem to want to take no responsibility for (tax wise). I would suggest that some dents could be made if we throw the current bums out. With the Republicans calling the shots there's no chance whatsoever. This is not something I'm making up. This is something they have proven.

If we impeach for misrepresentation, why are we so behind on getting the job done on George W. Bush? Can we do post-term impeachments? That way we could get Dubya's father, Bill Clinton (who promised work on our medical insurance problems), Ronald Reagan for hundreds of silly things he misrepresented, and oh gosh, where would it end? *blink, blink*