Are We ready for a Black President?

[Gone4Now 4]

That will only work for some... Because the pain and frustration is still being felt in Vast parts of America. I happen to live in a Highly diverse community in the SF Bay. But how can you tell a person who around during the Tuskegee experiments. Or who marched in Birmingham when the dogs were released. How do you tell a person in that situation to Get over it its in the past. I am 25 and i would like to do nothing but to move on and start anew but when i see racial injustice that is still institutionalized and when i speak to my grandmother and talk to her about her life. i cant help but to be a little frustrated and it makes it a lot harder for me to just say I'm over it. Most people get stories in a paper, I get events from peoples lives, i know these people. There is fear and anger on both sides of this issue. You say your mother is racist; but did You ever ask her why?

Yeah, and the sad thing is - she doesn't know she is. My grandparents were, and their parents, and it trickled down. There is no reason. They weren't abused or mistreated, and there are no stories. It's just ignorance. That's why having my daughter has helped her see things in different colors. I wouldn't say she's an extreme racist - but that's like saying "a little pregnant". She's the kind of racist that says she's "even had some black friends." The kind that sees a division, but pretends they don't.

Also, I have stories from my daughter's father that are horrifying. His experiences have helped to open my mother's eyes to what's real. He's laid back and "non-threatening" and my mother feels comfortable around him.

Another intersting story that I know was a letter written by a woman who was at Georgetown in DC during race riots. My friend was her nanny, and when she passed away, my friend was going through the paperwork and found these letters. This was a rich, white girl from New England who happened to be friends with black students. The police in DC smashed them on the head, and roughed all of them up pretty badly. This woman was astonished, having never experienced that before.

I guess my point was how can we wipe the slate clean if we're always going backwards? Black vs. white is the most recognized racism, but there are several race issues. Look at what 9/11 has brought...The Holocaust is another example. Would I tell someone to "get over" that? No. It's not the experiences that I think we should get over, but the anger and hate that was created from them. We can't change the past; only learn from it and move on - forward. You can look back in regret, dismay, anger even - but at the event itself. Not the race of people associated with it.

"It's the past - get over it" is something that works with people like my mother. The more I push for that, the more it works. It's a way for me to minimize the bad and showcase the good.

[TheWatcher 1]

I guess my point was how can we wipe the slate clean if we're always going backwards? Black vs. white is the most recognized racism, but there are several race issues. Look at what 9/11 has brought...The Holocaust is another example. Would I tell someone to "get over" that? No. It's not the experiences that I think we should get over, but the anger and hate that was created from them. We can't change the past; only learn from it and move on - forward. You can look back in regret, dismay, anger even - but at the event itself. Not the race of people associated with it.

"It's the past - get over it" is something that works with people like my mother. The more I push for that, the more it works. It's a way for me to minimize the bad and showcase the good.

I know that majority of people would love to move on but its hard because everywhere we turn we see only the bad we have to reference point to fall back to. The Holocaust was horrible but their ancestors and reletives are far removed from the place of their torment. The people in this country will never stop being angry about 911. For black people there to this day hasn't been a liberation so to speak, Blacks went from slavery to an institutionalized racismsegregation that took this country another hundred years to get to the point where we are today. We must remember for every Barack Obama, or Maya Angelou, Sydney Poitier there are hundreds that couldn't stay in the school or was intimidated by the masses, or didn't get that lucky break. This country robbed the Black here of their heritage, African Americans can only trace their linage back as far as when we got off the boat. How can you teach people why they should strive and work hard work hard when you can tell them where they come from who their ancestors were. The American Black Community is like a tall tree with no roots.

Some leaders in our community want reparations. I say screw that; establish a organization that can reconnect a lost community with their roots that cant do that for everyone but they have enough information that through research and DNA they can trace peoples linage back over the Middle Passage, its not easy but it can be done. Thats how you start to address the Anger that lies within the African American community.

:thumbup:i love this forum people her will talk and have a real discussion about anything:thumbup:

But i thing we all can agree its time to start erasing the hate and anger.

[plain 12]

I'm ok with a black president (and I'm a redneck, for goodness' sake). It's the liberal ideology he brings that I have a problem with (let the flaming begin).

Watcher, I understand what you're saying about the older generation having a hard time getting over the 60's. But........can't all ethnic groups kinda claim the same thing? I'm a goodly part native american (or "injun", if you live where I live). My people struggle with the same issues you speak of. For a long time there were "No Irish" signs everywhere, similar to the Jim Crow laws. Asians were used as disposible, cheap manual labor for the railroads and mining.

I don't get the "no liberation" thing. Liberation from what? As wanky and platitude-istic (I'm good at making up words) as it sounds, looking backwards at old hurts only divides us as a nation.

[TheWatcher 1]

I'm ok with a black president (and I'm a redneck, for goodness' sake). It's the liberal ideology he brings that I have a problem with (let the flaming begin).

Watcher, I understand what you're saying about the older generation having a hard time getting over the 60's. But........can't all ethnic groups kinda claim the same thing? I'm a goodly part native american (or "injun", if you live where I live). My people struggle with the same issues you speak of. For a long time there were "No Irish" signs everywhere, similar to the Jim Crow laws. Asians were used as disposible, cheap manual labor for the railroads and mining.

I don't get the "no liberation" thing. Liberation from what? As wanky and platitude-istic (I'm good at making up words) as it sounds, looking backwards at old hurts only divides us as a nation.

For how long, And how did your Irish ancestors get here??? And Who says that this nations debt to the Native American people has been paid?... and sad to say but at least they were paid; it wasing the best situation but they were hear on their will.

Yes that has always been prejudices and if we had chose to come here i would be right beside you crying hurt like everyone else but thats not how we got here. We were slaves no rights no names just property below dogs on the totem pole and you wanna make the same claim of prejudices for immigrants. I'm sorry my friend it does not compare, and anyway its not a competition; for you as immigrants you had it hard yes, but what i am talking about is 400 years inhumane ownership of a people. And after that every major gain my people took was made my a amendment to the damn constitution.

lol Black people never said we all don't have history. i don't understand why people hate that we want to stand up and say we are here and we have been wronged.

Edited April 4, 2008 by TheWatcher

[plain 12]

You are absolutely right, Watcher. It's not a competition. So why is the plight of your ancestors worse than mine? My heritage is Indian. I'm not Irish, nor Asian, nor Jewish, nor Black. My people weren't immigrants. But here's the crux of my point: Whose peoples were done more wrong? Doesn't matter. That's my point. The more time you focus on the hurts of the past is time lost from today....right now. Clearly, I'm not advocating "forget the past". Do not forget, but move on.

I think if you read what I posted above, you'd be hard pressed to find any hate at all....so were you accusing me or somebody else of hating? I think I've read all the posts in this thread and haven't found any hate yet. Earlier on, you said you wanted to start a dialog.......we can't start an open, honest dialog if you accuse people of hating when they provide a counter-point. Or possibly I'm taking your comment wrong? I'd like to go back and forth, if that's what you want.

[Gone4Now 4]

This country robbed the Black here of their heritage, African Americans can only trace their linage back as far as when we got off the boat. How can you teach people why they should strive and work hard work hard when you can tell them where they come from who their ancestors were. The American Black Community is like a tall tree with no roots.

Some leaders in our community want reparations. I say screw that; establish a organization that can reconnect a lost community with their roots that cant do that for everyone but they have enough information that through research and DNA they can trace peoples linage back over the Middle Passage, its not easy but it can be done. Thats how you start to address the Anger that lies within the African American community.

:thumbup:i love this forum people her will talk and have a real discussion about anything:thumbup:

But i thing we all can agree its time to start erasing the hate and anger.

:smile: Yes. I guess how is the question?

I understand that not knowing where you came from can be isolating. My grandmother was adopted on my mother's side, and my grandfather on my father's side was adopted. Add onto that, there is some question on whether or not my grandfather was his father....I have no idea what/who we are. I know the past is important, but I really don't think it MUST define you. I'm sure it does to a lot of people, and I have friends who have family trees displayed proudly. But it doesn't have to define you. My family is completely different from me. They don't make me. And, whoever my family was 100 years ago certainly can't define the person I am today.

You're saying the black community is like a tall tree with no roots because of what America did to them generations ago. Yes, slavery is bad, no one disputes that. (Well, no one worth speaking to, anyway.) What I'm saying is that slavery and mistreatment has happened across the ages. People have been uprooted and moved from their families and homelands as far back as history documents. It's not nice, it's not good. In no way am I saying that. I'm saying, that it's over now, and instead of being the tree, the black community can be its own roots in history.

This is the new beginning for a new generation. I know I'm sounded really airy and naive about it, but I really do see the changes. I see the changes in my family, and I do have hope.

[Cheryl Ann 2]

My father's entire family -- mother, father, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and some cousins -- died in concentration camps during WWII. On both sides of my family, I cannot trace back more than four generations, because birth records tended to be destroyed when the synagogues they were kept in were routinely torched and burned to the ground. Sometimes even those who prayed in them were locked inside to burn along with everything else.

And you know what? I am alive and living in what is now surely the greatest and most free country in the entire world, ever. Sure there are still individuals and groups that would love nothing more than for me and my kind to disappear off the face of the earth, but despite this, I am still living in liberty and safety.

Education is the key to everything. It really is.

[Gone4Now 4]

For how long, And how did your Irish ancestors get here??? And Who says that this nations debt to the Native American people has been paid?... and sad to say but at least they were paid; it wasing the best situation but they were hear on their will.

Wait...what? Are you saying that the Native Americans were here on their free will, or that the Irish were?

Immigrants often came to America because they were fleeing bad government or opression in their own country. They should not have been treated unfairly any more than slaves should have been bought and sold.

Native Americans weren't "paid". They were "allowed" to live on land that was barren, 2000 miles away from their homes. Families dies along the way, children and babies were left behind.

Either situation was terrible in its own way. I'm not sure one is worse or better, or if one or neither was "paid" or "not paid".

Yes that has always been prejudices and if we had chose to come here i would be right beside you crying hurt like everyone else but thats not how we got here.

Am I wrong about African tribes selling other tribe members (after taking them into slavery)? Your ancestors who were slaves did not choose to be here, but how does that comparison and attitude help the current generation?

We were slaves no rights no names just property below dogs on the totem pole and you wanna make the same claim of prejudices for immigrants.

I'm sorry my friend it does not compare, and anyway its not a competition; for you as immigrants you had it hard yes, but what i am talking about is 400 years inhumane ownership of a people.

Like I said earlier, though - there is a long history dating back thousands of years - back to Moses! It's not a matter of white and black. Where do you draw the line? Do you want 400 years of special treatment? I know a quick apology doesn't seem like enough, but what is enough? Why would you want to take resources from the US and the future generations of Americans?

And after that every major gain my people took was made my a amendment to the damn constitution.

I don't understand this. What about the amendments are you upset about?

lol Black people never said we all don't have history. i don't understand why people hate that we want to stand up and say we are here and we have been wronged.

That has been said. Many, many, many times. What I don't understand, is why the black community wants us to kiss their butts and say sorry every damn day?

Sorry if this seems to minimize the pain for you, but imagine if you're in a disagreement with a friend and you hit him. Say, you beat the crap out of him. Later, you talk about it, you realize you were wrong and he stays friends with you. But, every time you're around him, he keeps saying, "Remember when you beat me up? Yeah, that really hurt me." Wouldn't that put the wall up between the two of you? Wouldn't that divide you even further than you already are?

If the black community is so angry at America, then why don't they leave? They are, and have been free, for a while now. So if it's that bad, why not move away and find their roots?

Does white America make it that bad for the black community?

What would it take to make it right?

A program like what you're talking about to find roots would be acceptable to me - I'd vote on it. But, it would have to be available to all. Immigrants, too. Blacks, whites without a family history, Chinese (who were also enslaved by America in the West.) Everyone should be able to benefit from it.

To go further, maybe there should be a fee for the service...to be refunded by the government if you're family is found to have been a slave. I say this because not every black person in America is the descendant of a slave.

[travelgirl 3]

I'm ready for someone dedicated and skilled at finding solutions without generating more complex problems.

I'm ready for someone who can point to the beneficial effects of their social and economic stance rather than the dogmatic propaganda of their political machine.

I'm ready for someone who can demonstrate the clarity of their personal vision and beneficial effects of their social commitments without deviating for personal gain.

I'm ready for someone who will support the constitution as written, and who will defend the borders of America from all invaders.

I'm ready to vote for the candidate who demonstrates their capacity as leader and figurehead of my notion of what this country is supposed to be.

I'm ready to admit my own political views have changed dramatically over the past 40 years.

Jack, you've got my vote! JACK IN '08!:smile:

[Boo Boo Kitty 3]

Personally I am ready for a change. I don't care if they are black, green, purple or rainbowed. It has nothing to do with my decision to vote for them.

I am ready for someone as Jack said to pick this country up out of the hell we are in and make something of it again. I am ready to not have to worry about how to pay the bills because I can't afford gas, I am ready to begin economic recovery, I am ready to be happy and proud to be an American again.

I am ready to NOT BE IN A COUNTRY RAN BY MR. POTATOE HEAD...:smile:

[TheWatcher 1]

Im not saying that anyones plight is worse .... but its bad enough for Black people to Choose to make our plight visible. I personally believe that the Native American Asians and other oppressed peoples should stand up and make their own grievances known and visible.

Its not wrong for black people to stand up and talk about Black issues and fight for the issues that face our community. You mention that Other communities had had issues as well. I absolutely agree and if they want their issues in the lime light then stand up, protest, start dialog and rise up as a community together and make someone listen to you. As black people have done, and remember the Germans ran the Concentration camps not Americans. I am speaking on the faults of this country towards my people not to trivialize or Diminish the struggles of any other community.

[Wheetsin 714]

I don't think any of us were saying "race isn't an issue" or trying to stick our heads in the sand. Of course it's an issue. But in terms of the presidency, I don't see Barack as a BLACK candidate. Yes, I look at him and he's black (or mixed). I'd be blind if I didn't see that. I'm of the belief that "I only see one color" is a bunch of BS. But for me it doesn't factor in to his candidacy any more than Hillary being female does (both being political minorities). If Barack was any race, any gener or combination of genders, any whatever, if I felt he was the right candidate for me, that's all that would matter. Maybe I'm expressing myself in a way that reads "race isn't an issue" -- but that's not my intention at all. Race is not an issue in who I will vote for, nor do I think it's an issue in someone's ability to be competent in the presidency. If "my candidate" is black, so be it. If they're not, so be it.

This country robbed the Black here of their heritage, African Americans can only trace their linage back as far as when we got off the boat.

I understand there is lost identity, but do you really blame this country for that, exclusively?

Historically you have to look at a very long progression of slavery... oh, probably around the time of the Arab conversion to Islam and the Moorish race sway to Arab. Aware of the Arab slave trade, the Spanish, Brittish, French (and most of glory-bound Europe) were the first "white" slave keepers, and initiated the human retail market. Slaves were Taken by the French and Portugese long before Americans. So how is it "this country" exclusively robbed the Black of their heritage?

ETA - there may be some confusion between "black here" and my mention of foreign countries. But that population is also represented in the historical lineage of the blacks we have here today.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Wheetsin

[TheWatcher 1]

Plain i am sorry if You thought i was attacking or going on the defensive. I am not as tactful on forums as i am in person. I understand the plights of other oppressed people in this country and others and For those people who were mistreated and oppressed as a community they should rise and make any grievances known and if they are upset then say something .

Cheryl Ann

You are right. Education is the key but try to see where i am coming from where as you see the greatest and most free country in the world(witch it is ) a great many in the black community see not only that; but the country who oppressed us in the first place. And the reason for the anger is that the Holocaust has spawned a great many debate about genocide and oppression and peace where as the black community feels as though in many cases America has just tried to sweep slavery under the rug. Out of Sight Out of Mind.

Gloucester

I would never diminish the plight or any people especially the Native American people, I was simply pointing out that The Irish Population were Immigrants, Not slaves who were old as property.

No you are not wrong African were selling captured Africans, But does that diminish the atrocity of the situation? Even todaymost African nationalities and cultures look down on the American Black community. We hear the stories the picture of our slave ancestors are still in the houses of my elders. When Native American and treated unjustly this day in age their community stands up and makes them self heard same with the Jewish and Asian communities.

No 400 years of special treatment is not necessary, but this community will be happy when we don't have to look over our shoulders from our own country.

Why is it ok For the US to SWEEP their sins under the rug, And why is it misunderstood and questioned when the offended party stands up and says know we are still here you will not be swept under the rug. The the Germans tries to DO that the International community would have a fit.

Just because i don't include all races and plights in my arguments doesn't mean that they wouldn't benefit from the solution.

Thanks for the responses, guys this is great.

[Wheetsin 714]

No you are not wrong African were selling captured Africans

Actually this is something that people tend to hear, and assume is true, but has virtually no literature, societal record, etc. data to back it up.

I know in my own study, the very concept of slavery was not reflected in literature and societal records until after the impact of the slave trade began to be felt in African nations.

If you aren't familiar with them, you might want to read some topical scholars, e.g. Chancellor Williams (in particular Destruction of Black Civilization: Great Issues of a Race from 4500BC to 2000AD), and even modern scholars such as Oscar Beard. Their research is very thorough.

Again ETA - I was a bit vauge. Africa did "sell Africans" -- but not slavery as we know it. It was a form of criminal punishment and of handling prisoners of war. When it hit retail, it was seen almost 100% as collaboration with European slave drivers to avoid war (e.g. German invasion of Namibia, and the Belgian invasion of Congo where death estimates exceed five million).

Edited April 4, 2008 by Wheetsin

[Gone4Now 4]

Im not saying that anyones plight is worse .... but its bad enough for Black people to Choose to make our plight visible.

What plight? What is America (the Government, not the people) doing wrong?

I personally believe that the Native American Asians and other oppressed peoples should stand up and make their own grievances known and visible.

My question is: What GOOD does that do?

Its not wrong for black people to stand up and talk about Black issues and fight for the issues that face our community.

But YOUR community is OUR community. Things are only segragated because of individual people and their own personal choices.

You mention that Other communities had had issues as well. I absolutely agree and if they want their issues in the lime light then stand up, protest, start dialog and rise up as a community together and make someone listen to you.

Listen to....who? The individual who won't let the past go, or the group as a whole who needs help?

As black people have done, and remember the Germans ran the Concentration camps not Americans. I am speaking on the faults of this country towards my people not to trivialize or Diminish the struggles of any other community.

I understand, but it seems that there is no solution. You want there to be an answer and there isn't. This country is young compared to every other country out there. It did horrible things in its youth that can never be repaired. However, we are working to civilize ourselves. That's the growth I'm talking about.

Here we are looking at a black man and a woman for presidential candidates. To me, I don't care about race - but the fact that many others are also saying that it doesn't matter means the stepping stones laid by your ancestors, as well as my own female counterparts, have made a tremendous difference.

All I'm asking is that we not sweep events under the rug, but try to stop seeing the past as something that needs fixing. We're here because of our past, and for better or worse it is what it is. We can't go back, and living in the past only prevents us from going forward.

So, how do we move forward?