This thread is going to be sooo inappropriate!

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

jachut mentioned a "trigger" that happens with obese people. I believe that it definnitely happens with some obese people.

I'm not sure if the yo-yo dieting beings it on or what. But I believe that for some of us, eating is to our obesity as not eating is to an anorexic. Boy that sounds weird. But I believe that some people have a compulsion to eat, just like some people can't force themselves to eat.

This complicates things tremendously. It's going to take a lot more studies and a lot more research before anyone can guarantee results for anyone.

In the frickin' meantime, what the heck do we do? I'm scared to death of more surgery. Especially a surgery that tampers with my normal bodily functions that cannot be reversed if necessary. On the other hand, if a sleeve really gave me the tool that helped me get normal, I would do it.

And wasa, yes, I would do all those horrible things if it helped me become slim again. I do several of those things now and I'm still fighting tooth and nail to keep from regaining every damn pound I lost within the first 4 months after surgery.

All this talk about ghrelin makes me wonder if the band is making my system produce more. I have a gnawing hunger in my stomach almost 24/7. Curse words.

So just get overfilled where you slime on your own saliva and you can experience the same thing.

[*susan* 1,709]

I would be thrilled to be able to eat only a small amount of food if I could enjoy doing so knowing that when I swallow it, it will not cause me pain or the embarrassment of it coming back up again.

[MistyD65 1]

Misty, I have the band too, but I can eat way more than a fourth of a sandwich. I don't want to be so tight that I have to worry all the time about pbing or damaging my stomach. I am wondering how much a person with the sleeve can eat, and if it is upsetting to them to not be able to eat even a bandster size meal.

That's why I asked Mac. I already know how much WasA can eat, because she told me.

I'm sorry Oregon. I didn't mean to imply that I was trying to answer for Mac. But I saw in your question something that I had encountered myself, but haven't really seen addressed: the sadness or anger at not being able to eat a certain amount of food. Once I realized I was feeling that way, I actually told myself that I was being ridiculous. As long as the amount of food I am eating is satisfying my true, physical hunger and is meeting my nutritional needs, the desire for any more than that is "all in my head". That's not to negate the power that holds. That desire for volume has been instilled in me for a very long time. I sometimes long for big mouthfuls of something rich and savory, simply for the feel of having it there, then letting it slide down my throat. I think about going out to eat, knowing that I can't eat as much of some things as I would like. But I CAN still eat them - that's what I remind myself. It's a hard thing, training my head to be happy and satisfied with small, but appropriate-sized portions, but it is slowly getting better.

These are all just my opinions, of course, based on my experiences and feelings, and I don't presume to speak for anyone else. But it's something I've been pondering for a while, and your question prompted me to put it in writing.

[Jachut 487]

I would freak out if I could only eat 1/4 of a sandwich. I just dont understand why it is necessary to eat that little to lose weight. There has GOT to be long term health consequences to that.

I'd have to eat 20 times a day to remain upright. I dont even agree with the half cup for bandsters. Is there a reason for making the new stomach so small (like do they have to to get the ghrelin producing part)? And does it stretch out over time at ALL? How do you halt weight loss if you become underweight?

Edited February 20, 2009 by Jachut

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I would freak out if I could only eat 1/4 of a sandwich. I just dont understand why it is necessary to eat that little to lose weight. There has GOT to be long term health consequences to that.

I'd have to eat 20 times a day to remain upright. I dont even agree with the half cup for bandsters. Is there a reason for making the new stomach so small (like do they have to to get the ghrelin producing part)? And does it stretch out over time at ALL? How do you halt weight loss if you become underweight?

Jacqui...

I can only eat 1/4 of a sandwich because it is bread. Bread and eggs are overly filling for me.

Solid Protein... I can eat 2oz, period. That's it.

Soft Proteins I can eat 4-5 oz.

Yogurt, etc... I don't really know. 6oz?

I eat four times daily and I'm totally fine with that.

[Jesusislove 26]

I can not eat any bread, wow. You guys can eat 1/4 of a sandwich, that's great! I can eat other things, but bread does not agree with me.

[plain 12]

How do you halt weight loss if you become underweight?

I always wondered that too. I know the sleeve isn't a surgery that relies solely on malabsorption, but I always wondered with the RnY and DS how you halt the process when you get to where you want to be.*

*there may be a very easy answer to this....I haven't researched very much on either of these two surgeries because malabsorption has always kinda spooked me.

[Jesusislove 26]

How do you halt weight loss if you become underweight?

I do not disagree with any WLS, but I have a friend who had the gastric bypass, and she is too little. We are both tall and she said her doctor told her that she can not have plastic surgery until she gain some weight. Last time I talked to her she was trying to gain just to have plastic surgery. That is what made me choose the lapband, I wanted to be small, but not too small.

[BJean 16]

Jachut I was wondering that too. How do you maintain your weight once you reach your goal if you have the sleeve?

And wasa I have experienced some of what you've told us you went through with the band. I haven't gone to some of the extremes to handle them that you have with your medical connections. But in July I had an attack of ischemic colitis and almost died. So I feel I would be really stupid if I didn't get as much information as possible before going under the knife again. And the fact that I am so intimidated and afraid of surgery doesn't make me a wimp or stupid.

You fought your way through all the problems you were having with the band and still lost all the weight. I think that is great. You had had your band taken out and got the sleeve and you're very happy with it. Super. I appreciate all the information you've shared with us, very much. It really is helpful.

Cramming your beliefs down people's throats about the sleeve is not much different than patty cramming her religion down people's throats. Either cramming action makes people want to frow up.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Cramming your beliefs down people's throats about the sleeve is not much different than patty cramming her religion down people's throats. Either cramming action makes people want to frow up.

How in the world is answering YOUR question, sharing my experiences, and stats cramming anything down anyone's throat?

That's a low blow and not becoming of you. Nowhere do I suggest that everyone must believe and experience what I do. Check out the boards, I try to help people overcome band issues. For you to compare that to Pattygreen is a reflection upon you, not me.

BTW, you never responded to my post. You suggested that you would willingly take on my band problems if you could lose weight. So get an overfill and you can experience what I did. What's stopping you? One week be over filled, then the next week take all the fill out. The next week get over filled again. Then you too, can experience the joys I did. Go for it. You want it, do it.

And who the heck suggested that fearing another surgery makes you a wimp or stupid? Post the quote for all of us. I know that *I* wrote that there is no right or wrong choice, it is what is right for each of us. So post this quote that you appear to be debating. I would like to see it.

Edited February 20, 2009 by WASaBubbleButt

[BJean 16]

"So just get overfilled where you slime on your own saliva and you can experience the same thing."

"One week be over filled, then the next week take all the fill out. The next week get over filled again. Then you too, can experience the joys I did. Go for it. You want it, do it."

Sorry wasa, I shouldn't have made the assumption that you had read all my posts. You're right. I overreacted to the first sentence that you made, above.

I HAVE done exactly that. For over 2 and a half years. But unlike you I haven't lost down to my goal weight. You made me feel like you're trying to club me into submission or something.

I believe everything you've said about the sleeve. But then I believed everything that you said when you were pro-band. So I'm a little skeptical and it felt like you were being critical of that.

It's a situation that has me on the edge and I am having a really hard time. I didn't mean to be rude.

[BJean 16]

Well look, it seems you did club me into submission. Go figure.

[MacMadame 81]

Mac, do you ever feel sad when you want to eat more than the sleeve will let you?

Not sad, but from about week 7 to week 12, I was pretty pissy. That was when I was cleared to eat normal food, yet couldn't eat very much at all. It made me mad! :tt2:

But at around 12 weeks, I opened up to the point where I could eat enough to feel mentally satisfied as well as physically. It took a lot less food than pre-op too.

And now I can eat even more. I suspect over the next 7 months, I'll be able to eat even more and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

My friend is getting a sleeve, and I told her WasA said she could only eat 1/4 of a sandwhich. That made her sad. She asked how soon she would be able to eat the other 3/4.

I'm not sure if she ever will be able to eat a WHOLE sandwich. It is going to depend on a lot of factors.

But I believe some day I will be able to eat half a sandwich. And maybe even a bit of fruit or salad with it. That's what my roommate who was a size 2 and 1 inch taller than me used to eat on a regular basis. So that seems normal to me as what a really short person with a tiny frame should be eating.

I have another friend who is an amateur athlete. He works out 10-20 hours a day in his sport at a high level. He's also 5'11". But if he eats over 1500 calories a day, he gains weight.

I think about these two when I try to re-calibrate my sense of normal eating. I think our portion size and our ideas of what is a reasonable quantity of food is just so far off from what it should be given our largely sedentary lifestyles. Our food labels are based on 2000 calories a day. For most of us, that's way too many calories, yet we are told that is "average". Which makes it seem normal.

I need to be really sure this time.

Well maybe the DS is the answer then. It has the best stats.

See how I got back on topic, like that. :smile:

I always wondered that too. I know the sleeve isn't a surgery that relies solely on malabsorption, but I always wondered with the RnY and DS how you halt the process when you get to where you want to be.

It's not that hard. More people end up 10 lb. higher than they want to be than end up too small and struggling to keep weight on.

With all the surgeries except the band, you go from being really tight to looser so, over time, you are just naturally eating more than at first and that helps to slow the weight loss. So does losing weight because now it takes less calories to run your body.

For some, that's enough. We start out at 400-600 calories a day on liquids and end up around 1000-1200 just by the sleeve or pouch opening up and that's all a lot of the formerly MO need per day so the weight loss stops.

If someone needs more calories, they can replace their fat free yogurt snack with regular yogurt. They can cook with butter instead of PAM. Put some avocado on their scrambled eggs instead of salsa. Maybe have a high calorie treat once in a while.

If they need even more, they can add in another snack or two. (Most of us are told to eat 3 meals or 3 meals and a snack so there is room to eat 1-3 more times a day.)

And, if all that doesn't work, instead of drinking Water in between meals, you can add in a Protein shake here and there like some of my triathlon friends do.

There are people with sleeves -- mostly really athletic guys -- who consume 2000 calories a day. They do have to work a bit harder to do that -- pay more attention to their eating. But it's entirely possible.

If I keep up the triathlons, I can see myself needing about 1500 calories a day. It's more likely that I'll slow down the training in the off season and will only need about 1200. Which I could do now without even breaking a sweat and with still having to watch what I eat and not be able to eat a lot of junk.

So I'm not *too* worried. :thumbup:

[BJean 16]

Really great helpful post, MacMadame!

[*susan* 1,709]

I agree, thanks for posting that Mac!