This thread is going to be sooo inappropriate!

[BJean 16]

Beth, you're telling me!!

McMadame, that's a lot of good information. Can you tell me the possible side effects of the sleeve? There are some with the band that I never heard about until after I was banded and spent quite a bit of time at LBT and read various threads here where people were speaking of their successes as well as their problems.

I had no idea that slippage was a real possibility. I didn't know that your esophogus could become enlarged. I didn't know that your stomach could erode where the band is. And I thought I had done my homework. I also believe (without any real substantive documentation) that younger people seem to do better with the band than older people. And that people who do a whole lot of exercise are far more successful than people who either can't or just don't exercise a lot. It sounds like with the sleeve, that exercise is not as much of a determining factor for success or failure.

[MacMadame 81]

From what I've read, exercise is correlated with success for all the surgeries. I think it gives people an edge.

With the sleeve, the main complications are in the beginning and some are quite serious. You can get a leak along your staple line and sometimes they are hard to heal. You can get a stricture where you can't get anything down and have to be dilated to expand out your opening. You can get a twist in your stomach and there are different treatments for that.

The other thing is that sometimes people have trouble with stomach acid. Sometimes the stomach makes too much acid at first. So most docs put us on a PPI right away as a precaution. But I didn't really have too much trouble with that. Another annoying complication is nausea. Again, this is more of a "just in the beginning" thing and it's much less common than the stomach acid.

After that, the main thing is that you should be taking Calcium supplements because Calcium is not as well absorbed in a low-acid environment. Some people also need to supplement with B12 or Iron, but again, that is rare. The base supplements are similar to lap-band base supplements, in fact.

And that's about it. Once you get past the leak danger, and as long as you aren't one of the ones dealing with nausea, you are pretty much home-free.

[BJean 16]

Thank you so much McMadame! I appreciate getting the "real skinny" so to speak. I noticed that you've been very successful and was wondering when you got your sleeve.

Those possible complications do make me think that it is not a switch that I should take without a whole lot of serious consideration. I didn't know that there were staples involved. I should go to a seminar and see what the actual surgery involves.

Congratulations on your great success. I'm sure you're feeling very good about your weight loss so far!

The reason I mentioned exercise is because I have very bad knees and the kind of exercise I can do is totally low impact. The people who can kick up the exercise a bunch seem to do so much better with the band than those of us who have limitations. With the sleeve, if actual hunger isn't so much of a problem, it seems to me that you could enjoy a good deal of weight loss even if you aren't running 3 miles a day. Anybody who is totally inactive will have a problem with losing though, with either surgery.

Thanks so much for helping me out on this. I really appreciate it!

[Oregondaisy 2,021]

There are machines at the gym that are very low impact.

My gym just got some new ones that are like gliding in the air. A lot of people that have problems with their knees also do Water exercises.

The thing with exercise is that once you are used to it, you really miss it when you're not doing it. I get very annoyed when something interferes with my gym time.

I can't wait for the day when I can come up with the money to have my band removed and get the sleeve. I have so much scar tissue at my waist where the port and tubing are, it's hard to bend at the waist.I also have problems with restriction. I wish I had known about the sleeve from the very beginning.

How are these people taking anitbiotics all the time and not dealing with yeast infections? This is a big problem in my life.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Oregondaisy

[MacMadame 81]

How are these people taking anitbiotics all the time and not dealing with yeast infections? This is a big problem in my life.

That I don't know... I think it's the nature of the one they take. I think it targets gut flora only. But I haven't looked into it as it's not applicable to me.

BJean, I exercise like crazy and, if I don't, my weight loss suffers. It may be because I'm older and my metabolism is slower than average (though not a lot slower). It is also because I want to lose the 2-3 lb. a week that is average for my surgery and not settle for the 1-2 lb. that you can get with most diets.

Now, at first, you just can't eat that much. I was doing 500 calories a day to start! That went up gradually as my stomach swelling went down. So doing that period, the weight was definitely dropping off, pretty much no matter what.

But now I'm up to about 850-900 calories a day at almost 5 months and, if I want to continue to lose at the 2-3 lb. a week rate, I have to burn about 3000 calories a week in exercise. That's a lot of exercise and at a pretty high intensity. Of course, I'm doing that anyway because I'm training for my triathlon.

If I was okay with a 1-2 lb. loss a month, I could do a lot less exercise or I could eat a lot more.

I just don't want you to get the wrong idea...

[BJean 16]

Wow a triathlon~! That's awesome. That's serious exercise. Good for you!!

I started doing Water aerobics and that was the first step in helping me lose lbs. and get my knees working again. Before that I had 2 doctors tell me to immobilize my knee because of tendonitis. That was the worst thing I could have done. I had to go to an orthopedist to learn that. Thank goodness I got up and started moving again. That old "use it or lose it" adage is right on!

oregon, so you're wanting to switch to the sleeve? Are you nervous at all about having some of your stomach removed? I thought the sleeve just restricted your stomach. I didn't know they actually cut some of it out. That makes me nervous. If I have complications with the band, it can be removed. If I have complications from having some of my stomach removed, it could be disasterous. I guess the complication rate is low though, so that's one part of the equation.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Wow a triathlon~! That's awesome. That's serious exercise. Good for you!!

I started doing Water aerobics and that was the first step in helping me lose lbs. and get my knees working again. Before that I had 2 doctors tell me to immobilize my knee because of tendonitis. That was the worst thing I could have done. I had to go to an orthopedist to learn that. Thank goodness I got up and started moving again. That old "use it or lose it" adage is right on!

oregon, so you're wanting to switch to the sleeve? Are you nervous at all about having some of your stomach removed? I thought the sleeve just restricted your stomach. I didn't know they actually cut some of it out. That makes me nervous. If I have complications with the band, it can be removed. If I have complications from having some of my stomach removed, it could be disasterous. I guess the complication rate is low though, so that's one part of the equation.

You have to get really specific with yourself before you feel better about the sleeve. Just what is it that you think can go wrong with a sleeve where you would want it reversed assuming it could be reversed?

With a band lots and lots of things can go wrong with it. If it happens you remove the band and start all over again. If something were to go wrong with your sleeve you fix it and continue on with your life.

Long term a sleeve is MUCH safer than a band.

[MacMadame 81]

The thing is, we know what happens when part of your stomach is removed when it comes to complications. That part of the sleeve has been performed for decades on people with stomach cancer and bad ulcers. We know people can live without their stomachs, if they have to.

I understand the fear of wanting to reverse something because I've thought that way myself.

But it's from hearing stories about people who had operations that included malabsorption or from not having a pylorus valve (i.e., as in RnY), or from operations where they stapled the stomach but didn't remove the part not used to process food and the two pieces grew back.

In all those cases, people get weird and serious side-effects that can't be treated. Not all people -- it's a small minority -- but I wasn't willing to risk it at this point in my life. But people don't get that from partial gastrectomies.

What can happen is that some people have trouble processing Calcium because of the less acidic stomach environment and some people have trouble getting enough B12 because there is less intrinsic factor.

But the later happens rarely enough that my surgeon doesn't even have us take B12 to start, but only if it turns out we need it. For the former, taking calcium citrate instead of calcium carbonate is usually enough. (Citrate doesn't need an acidic environment to be absorbed.)

Then there are minor inconvenience of sometimes eating too much and being uncomfortable. And a handful of short term problems that usually resolve themselves by 3-4 months out, but always by a year.

[Oregondaisy 2,021]

I am not the least bit nervous about having most of my stomach removed. Who needs it? Good riddance! All it has done is cause me misery by wanting it to be full beyond it's capacity.

I am more nervous about a piece of silicone wrapped around my stomach, possibly eroding my stomach to the point that I will not be able to have any other weight loss surgery, once it fails.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I am not the least bit nervous about having most of my stomach removed. Who needs it? Good riddance! All it has done is cause me misery by wanting it to be full beyond it's capacity.

I am more nervous about a piece of silicone wrapped around my stomach, possibly eroding my stomach to the point that I will not be able to have any other weight loss surgery, once it fails.

Not to mention that the part that is removed is designed to hold a large quantity of food and pump out ghrelin, the hunger causing hormone.

Who needs it? If my appendix was harming my health I'd toss it in the garbage. Same thing with my excess stomach.

[MacMadame 81]

My surgeon calls it "right-sizing" of the stomach, btw. That's how I think of it too. I didn't think of my stomach as a "perfectly good organ" that I was "mutilating" (as I've seen some people put it) but as a broken organ that needed to be fixed.

But everyone has their own POV and some people can't get past the "ohmigod, they are cutting off most of my stomach and THROWING IT AWAY" reaction. I know it took me a while to get past that reaction myself.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

My surgeon calls it "right-sizing" of the stomach, btw. That's how I think of it too. I didn't think of my stomach as a "perfectly good organ" that I was "mutilating" (as I've seen some people put it) but as a broken organ that needed to be fixed.

But everyone has their own POV and some people can't get past the "ohmigod, they are cutting off most of my stomach and THROWING IT AWAY" reaction. I know it took me a while to get past that reaction myself.

You know who the surgeon is that refers to it as stomach mutiliation, don't you? He's one that just happens to only do easy banding... nothing difficult for him! No sleeves, no bypass, only band revisions, and only those under a 50BMI.

No wonder his stats are decent, he only does easy no risk surgery.

[Oregondaisy 2,021]

I like that. Right sizing of the stomach. All I need is enough to sustain me, not all that excess that causes me misery.

I am happy that I got a band and lost weight, but I feel like I have a ticking time bomb wrapped around my stomach.

[BJean 16]

Oh I didn't mean to say that I'd want the sleeve surgery reversed. I meant that I might not have many alternatives if there was a complication having to do with the removal of part of my stomach.

Wasa, you've had really good results from getting the band removed and the getting the sleeve surgery, right? What went wrong with the band? I am trying to figure out if it's just me who is weak and therefore a potential candidate for the sleeve, or if I really should have experienced some kind of complication from the band before it is sensible to get the sleeve.

I've read posts of very successfully banded people who actually have great feelings toward their bands. They are "at one" with their band and would be devastated if it ever had to be removed.

I am not one of those people. I have had a limited amount of success and I am aware of the port nearly evey moment of every day. I worry about having this foreign body in me and worry that it might be causing damage in some way. I don't think those thoughts are very conducive to success.

But if I were to get the sleeve, I wonder if I would still be worried that I have a foreign body in me. I mean I would be an idiot to go through that surgery and continue to question my decision. In fact, I worry that I would feel even more frustrated than ever. (And weak)

The side effect of not absorbing B-12 is no biggie. I often take subinguinal B-12 now. And as far as Calcium is concerned, I have had kidney stones a couple of times in my life and so I probably don't process calcium properly now anyway. The nausea is a little scary. I hate feeling nauseated.

Another problem that I can foresee is that my husband would have a heart attack if I told him I wanted to get the sleeve. He was very supportive of me getting the band, but he did question my sanity. He thought I was courageous and strong and all that, but he's not one to ever choose elective surgery for anything. I'm sure he's as disappointed in my band as I have been though.

[BJean 16]

oregon: a ticking time bomb... my feelings are not that different than yours!