All you people do is complain...

[brandyII 9]

Boo Boo Kitty,

I got so engrossed with this battle going on that I started going back to previous posts to see who "G" was and saw your post about being named after that song "Brandy". That's so funny, it was a really popular song in the 70s, I think that's when it came out. My husband named my daughter Jessica after a song too.

Anyway I thought the "Thinner Times Forum" was rough but this one is pretty rough today!!!!brandyII (who was a fine beagle)

[Elisabethsew 50]

You are an idiot.

Grace is an idiot

Please remember that personal attacks are against the rules. Debate the topic.

[MacMadame 81]

IThe FACT remains the the medical community says that statistically a BMI of over 25 is overweight. And being over weight carries risk of serious obesity related illness.

But they don't mean by that that every person with a BMI of 24.9 is healthy and every person with a BMI of 25 is unhealthy.

Let's set aside the questionable origins of the BMI charts for now. What exactly do those charts mean? They are *guidelines* based on *statistical averages*. Statistics described populations -- that is groups of people. Statistics are never predicative for an individual. You can't look at a chart and know for a fact who is unhealthy and who isn't.

When I was a kid, the charts said I was overweight. My BMI (if they had such a thing back then) was between 20 and 23. That is considered healthy now. But in 1970 I was considered unhealthy by the charts in use at the time. The reality is that I was as healthy as I was. I didn't suddenly become more healthy the day the new charts were released.

You can't take any of these measure so literally. We have some general ideas as to what makes people healthy and how to measure it but our measures are inexact. Weight is inexact. BMI is inexact. Blood pressure is inexact. Cholesterol is inexact.

All of these numbers are clues as to our health, but they aren't exact. You can't tell if someone is healthy based on their numbers alone.

It's not even true that someone with a BMI of 20 would be less healthy if their BMI was 26. It *might* be true. But it totally depends on the individual.

If you want to say that people, in general, should strive for a BMI at or near the healthy range, I can buy that. If you say that in general a BMI of over 25 is less healthy than a lower BMI (as long as it's not so low as to be underweight), I can buy that. But when you say anyone with a BMI of over 24.9 is unhealthy, I can't buy that.

Because it's not true and it's not what the medical community is saying and it's not what the BMI charts prove.

[*susan* 1,709]

As Elizabeth said, the name calling and personal attacks need to stop immediately, or we will be forced to close this thread. Also, please stop naming names regarding fellow LBT members. LBT rules are to respect one another, and attack the idea, not the person!

Thank you.

[shortgal 5]

There will always be several opinions on any subject and plenty of data and studies to back up any one of them. And a new study sure to be published soon with a new finding.

I an no fan of G and on several threads suggested she gave people bad advice, like when she told someone that "if they gain one pound they should run and get a fill" or if " you can't get real food down, M & M's will usually go down".

But G's question, which on a public forum she is allowed to ask, did not ask what her goal weight should be. she wanted to stop losing weight because on HER she felt thinner was unattractive. G (or I) did not personally attack Chickie UNTIL Chickie chimed in with, examine why you feel you want to stay at a unhealthy BMI and examine why you think thin is unattractive.

In general, I agree that "thin", whatever that description is, to MY EYE unatractive, just like I do not find Chihauhau's or Greyhounds very attractive dogs because they are generally very thin. It is just my opinion and apparently that was Grace's opinion. ( not about the dogs, about people)

So what? If Chickie does not care what my opinion is, then why get so hot and bothered about it?

Asking WHY? Why? Why do we find "thin" unattractive? We just do. The same way some people find fat unattractive. The same way I prefer the beach to the snow, summer to winter, vanilla ice cream instead of chocolate. It's a preference. On a few people very thin works and on some it doesn't, to MY EYE.

I just think that someone that was previously overweight should not preach to people ( that have had surgery to become healthier) about remaining a bit overweight because they are "fat and unhealthy". Didn't we all spend enough years beating ourselves up over our weight without people on a WLS "support" forum continuing that?

Some of us don't have the same need for "perfection" according to some medical chart. Some of us are no longer 27 years old, either. Standards of beauty and health change.

It is obvious to me that Chickie and Jachut feel that they prefer to weigh the low end of a normal BMI. There are others on the forum that would agree and others that don't. That's the way the world is!

But I never preached to my thin friends that they should be fat like me and I don't think that we need to preach to people to be "thin" like them. And health isn't the only reason. We should not all have to fit into the one same mold.

When people on threads have to respond with comments like, well my Dr thinks I am doing well and is happy with my progress, that tells me that they were possibly offended about the unhealthy BMI comments. All I did was try to defend those people ( it was not just G!).

I do not even know HOW this topic came up AGAIN. I thought it had died a natural death and I think it should again!

I will end with, name calling is just so ridiculous coming from an adult, because someone has a different opinion.

And please anyone with a greyhound or chihuahua, I love dogs. I don't hate your dog, I just wouldn't get one as they are not appealing to me. Just like perhaps you would not get a Golden Retreiver.

Guess I'll stick with my November group for support and steer away from Rants and Raves.

Edited April 14, 2008 by shortgal
remove name identity

[Boo Boo Kitty 3]

Boo Boo Kitty,

I got so engrossed with this battle going on that I started going back to previous posts to see who "G" was and saw your post about being named after that song "Brandy". That's so funny, it was a really popular song in the 70s, I think that's when it came out. My husband named my daughter Jessica after a song too.

Anyway I thought the "Thinner Times Forum" was rough but this one is pretty rough today!!!!brandyII (who was a fine beagle)

Yeah, I was born in the good ole' 70's....tee hee....showing my age! :smile2:

What song has Jessica???? I can't think....

[anonemouse 1]

I hate to get in the middle again, but quite frankly, there HAVE been people sticking words in both Chickie's and Jachut's mouths. They've never said that a person with a BMI of 28 is guaranteed to be unhealthy. The simple fact is, though, that there is a "healthy" or "normal" BMI range, and that then indicates that any BMI that is not in that range CAN be referred to as "unhealthy," whether it is a BMI of 17 or a BMI of 28. Right now, I have an unhealthy BMI. I may not show any signs of weight-related conditions right now, and I am definitely healthier than I was when I was at my heaviest, but there is still no way I can deny that I am at a much greater risk of getting a weight-related condition than a person with a BMI of 23. That's plain, hard fact. If I decide that I'm happiest with a BMI of 28 when I get there, it's STILL an unhealthy BMI, and I'll fully own up to that.

People can say all they want to that they're "going to be perfectly healthy with a BMI of 28 or 29." Well, they don't know that. They can't know that until they get to that BMI. And even if they are perfectly healthy when they reach that goal, they're still at a greater risk of weight-related health problems than someone of a lower weight.

Chickie and Jachut have never gone after someone to lose more weight. If you've ever read Chickie's blog, she's come right out and stated several times that she doesn't give a flying you-know-what what another person weighs. People refusing to see reality is what gets to her, Jachut, and yes, even me. And quite frankly, it's been quite obvious to more than a few of us that even though Chickie may have been the only one to come right out and offend some people, there have been hidden insults thrown, insults that were meant to offend. For example, I bet it would be extremely offensive to more than a few people here if Chickie suddenly started gaining weight and made posts about how she's "unattractive" or "disgusting" if she still has a BMI of 24. It's basically implying that anyone with that same BMI or higher would be just as ugly. So I don't see why everyone can't see why people are getting offended when they're saying what they are.

[Elisabethsew 50]

Perhaps people need to realize that BMI is only ONE gauge of obesity. Here is another way of determining healthy vs unhealthy weight. If anyone needs to know what is, and what is not, acceptable content for posting, please refer to the rules.

Bye-bye BMI? Better way to measure obesity - Fitness - MSNBC.com

[anonemouse 1]

Perhaps people need to realize that BMI is only ONE gauge of obesity. Here is another way of determining healthy vs unhealthy weight. If anyone needs to know what is, and what is not, acceptable content for posting, please refer to the rules.

Bye-bye BMI? Better way to measure obesity - Fitness - MSNBC.com

Of course, BMI can be inaccurate in certain cases. No one has ever said it wasn't. And of course, there are other ways to determine if someone is truly overweight. Take body-fat percentage, for example. I believe even Jachut has said that her body fat percentage is still about 30% (I think she said that, anyway. Feel free to slap me, Jachut, if I'm wrong.), which is still higher than recommended, and she's the first to admit that. And Jachut looks GREAT and does extensive cardio workouts. And if someone who is at a healthy BMI can still have a body-fat percentage that is a tad higher than the target range, how high do you think someone's body-fat percentage is who is still considered "overweight" by their BMI? And I'm talking about the average person on this site, not bodybuilders or anything.

Cutlip agrees that BMI can be way off, especially when it comes to assessing a particular individual. The commonly used measure can give a skewed result not only for fit body builders who come out with a high number because of the extra weight associated with muscle, but also for the elderly, who tend to have scores that underestimate obesity because they have so much less muscle.

For the average person, BMI is still going to be a pretty good tool. Of course, people need to look at other aspects of their weight, in addition to their BMI, such as where they carry their fat. But I'd wager a guess that many people (barring weight-lifters and such, of course) with an "overweight" BMI are most likely going to show a higher risk with the other measurements, as well.

[brandyII 9]

Boo Boo Kitty,

Have you heard of the Allman Brothers, I think they were considered a blues/country rock band in the 70s. Anyway they did a song called Jessica. You're still young, I have 17 years on you!!!!, brandyII

[shortgal 5]

This thread started out toxic and has gotten back to that place.

I did not originally post anything on this thread about or to Chickie. She started the confrontation on an old topic because SHE couldn't let go.

Will I continue to be attacked by her on every thread I post on, simply because we had a difference of opinion on an old thread?

I think it's best I unsubscribe to this thread, I don't need to be attacked about my previous opinions on a topic other than the current one on the thread.

If people want ONE answer to every question and one person's opinion only than why have a forum at all?

[brandyII 9]

PEOPLE, let's stop stalking each other just because we have differing opinions! It's not mature and these forums were meant to be used as a tool in order to help oneself and others. Not do demean each other.

Also, we're all here not because we are Star Trek fans or like baseball, we have weight issues and either want to learn about Lap Band, had Lap band surgery or will have it. Demeaning others because you are now "thin" and others are "obese" is not something that should be done here either.

Trust me, whether you like it or not sometimes fat can come back and where will you be then? Looking for "SUPPORT" here like everyone else is and everyone deserves.

Thank you, brandyII:eek:

[ReadySteadyGo 8]

Perhaps people need to realize that BMI is only ONE gauge of obesity. Here is another way of determining healthy vs unhealthy weight. If anyone needs to know what is, and what is not, acceptable content for posting, please refer to the rules.

Bye-bye BMI? Better way to measure obesity - Fitness - MSNBC.com

Well said. I am going to be healthy...I am not healthy now. If I am healthy at a BMI of 40, then I will be happy. If I am healthy at a BMI of 20 then I will be happy. I believe it is truely individual.

[Boo Boo Kitty 3]

Boo Boo Kitty,

Have you heard of the Allman Brothers, I think they were considered a blues/country rock band in the 70s. Anyway they did a song called Jessica. You're still young, I have 17 years on you!!!!, brandyII

OH! Ok I know who they are! My dad is a huge fan! I will have to break out an LP and listen!

[anonemouse 1]

Demeaning others because you are now "thin" and others are "obese" is not something that should be done here either.

And the alternate needs to be said, too: Demeaning others because they are now "thin" and you are "obese" is not something that should be done here either.