Please help California homeschoolers!!!!!

[MacMadame 81]

I do not, however, believe that any school should be exempt from periodic mandatory testing.... public, private or homeschool.

I do. I find testing and grades to be fairly arbitrary and not a good indication of whether kids are really learning. I say stop with this incessent testing and use all that time, energy and money to actually teach things.

For one thing, I don't care if my kids learn the approved state curriculum. I don't think a kid who isn't interesting in CA history in 4th grade when they decide to teach it is a failure. I think telling kids who want to take a certain class or learn about a particular subject that they can't do it because they aren't in the right grade yet is ridiculous. How can we get kids excited about learning and get them to be lifetime learners if we constantly are telling them to only be interested in what we want them to be interested in? It's not going to happen for the vast majority of them.

[AlysonRR 0]

I do understand the overall statements that you are making and pretty much agree with you. I do not, however, believe that any school should be exempt from periodic mandatory testing.... public, private or homeschool.

My family approaches education as a lifelong pursuit and I'm not at all concerned if my child reads late, or learns the times tables by rote, or knows specific dates in history. I think it would be difficult to gauge my children's progress via a standardized test because they don't follow the public school curricula upon which the "standards" are set. I fully expect my children to become productive independent adults with as many (or few) academic degrees as they choose to achieve in order to meet their personal goals. While I'm sure there will be tests in their future, I don't really see the point at age 6 and 9. Like a Montessori teacher, I see all their work and know whether they understand a concept or not.

In my state a parent can exempt their child from the compulsory attendance laws (effective on students between ages 8 and 18) in order to homeschool if they either (1) have at least 45 credits of college work, (2) take a homeschool qualifying course, (3) work under the supervision of a certificated teacher, or (4) are deemed competent by the local school superintendent. We also must file a declaration of intent each year, cover the same eleven subjects as public schools (though not use the same curriculum or scope & sequence, nor use a particular educational method) and keep annual records including immunization records and either (a) a standardized test or (:blushing: a non-test assessment by a certificated teacher. All our records are privately kept - they would be requested if a child was being enrolled in a public school, but we don't show them to anyone, so there's no oversight in the sense you mean it.

For my 9-y.o. I choose a non-test assessment - I basically write a paragraph for each of the eleven subjects telling what he has done that year. A teacher reviews it. I file it.

I don't have to do any assessment for my 6-y.o. - the compulsory attendance law is only in effect for children ages 8-18. It doesn't mean she's not learning - "Birds fly, fish swim, man thinks and learns" (John Holt) - she's been learning every day she's been alive. But I don't have to jump through the state's hoops in order to keep her from being treated as a truant until she's 8.

Sorry so off topic to the original post - you're asking some interesting questions and I hope I've helped answer them.

[WestCoastFatGuy 3]

I do. I find testing and grades to be fairly arbitrary and not a good indication of whether kids are really learning. I say stop with this incessent testing and use all that time, energy and money to actually teach things.

For one thing, I don't care if my kids learn the approved state curriculum. I don't think a kid who isn't interesting in CA history in 4th grade when they decide to teach it is a failure. I think telling kids who want to take a certain class or learn about a particular subject that they can't do it because they aren't in the right grade yet is ridiculous. How can we get kids excited about learning and get them to be lifetime learners if we constantly are telling them to only be interested in what we want them to be interested in? It's not going to happen for the vast majority of them.

I don't disagree with the spirit/intent of your message. I do believe in pull-out programs, magnet schools, even homeschooling. However, never having testing just doesn't cut it in the real world.

There are universities that didn't believe in a traditional grading system. Ultimately, most (if not all) finally had to resort to them because they are a tool (albeit, only one) that are used by medical schools, masters and doctoral degree programs and others to determine eligibility. Even employers often use them to make hiring decisions (hospitals, law firms, investment banks, etc.).

I agree that tests don't paint a complete picture, but they do provide at least a rough outline (at a minimum) that one does not have without them.

[WestCoastFatGuy 3]

My family approaches education as a lifelong pursuit and I'm not at all concerned if my child reads late, or learns the times tables by rote, or knows specific dates in history. I think it would be difficult to gauge my children's progress via a standardized test because they don't follow the public school curricula upon which the "standards" are set. I fully expect my children to become productive independent adults with as many (or few) academic degrees as they choose to achieve in order to meet their personal goals. While I'm sure there will be tests in their future, I don't really see the point at age 6 and 9. Like a Montessori teacher, I see all their work and know whether they understand a concept or not.

In my state a parent can exempt their child from the compulsory attendance laws (effective on students between ages 8 and 18) in order to homeschool if they either (1) have at least 45 credits of college work, (2) take a homeschool qualifying course, (3) work under the supervision of a certificated teacher, or (4) are deemed competent by the local school superintendent. We also must file a declaration of intent each year, cover the same eleven subjects as public schools (though not use the same curriculum or scope & sequence, nor use a particular educational method) and keep annual records including immunization records and either (a) a standardized test or (:blushing: a non-test assessment by a certificated teacher. All our records are privately kept - they would be requested if a child was being enrolled in a public school, but we don't show them to anyone, so there's no oversight in the sense you mean it.

For my 9-y.o. I choose a non-test assessment - I basically write a paragraph for each of the eleven subjects telling what he has done that year. A teacher reviews it. I file it.

I don't have to do any assessment for my 6-y.o. - the compulsory attendance law is only in effect for children ages 8-18. It doesn't mean she's not learning - "Birds fly, fish swim, man thinks and learns" (John Holt) - she's been learning every day she's been alive. But I don't have to jump through the state's hoops in order to keep her from being treated as a truant until she's 8.

Sorry so off topic to the original post - you're asking some interesting questions and I hope I've helped answer them.

I would really help myself more if I would actually type the things that are in my head instead of leaving them out of my posts. I agree that testing a 6 year old is probably not very productive. I seem to recall that we had mandatory testing in 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th and 12th grades. The tests in two of the years (6th and 10th), I believe, were different types of tests from the others. They were more concept-based than fact-based.

It sounds like your state has some pretty good requirements in place. The only one that I am a little bit squeamish on is the 45-hrs of college exemption. There are far too many students who have completed 45 hrs of college that don't have a clue which end is up. But, then again.. there are lots of licensed public education teachers with multiple degrees about which I could say the same.

Your post was very informative and helpful.

[MacMadame 81]

However, never having testing just doesn't cut it in the real world.

Once you get out of school, no one cares what you got on your SATs or that you got an 89% on that history test in 4th grade instead of a 92%. (What?! I thought that went on my 'permanent' record!) In the real world, there is very little testing going on.

My son was homeschooled for two years via a state-sponsored charter school (one that is apparently illegal according to this 1953 law/ruling :tongue:). He had tests and grades and all the records he would have had if he went to public school. It was better for him than traditional school -- for one thing, I finally taught him to write a decent essay, something 9 years worth of credentialed teachers never managed -- but it still wasn't right for him.

Now he's at an alternative school. There are no formal classes, no grades and no tests. All learning is self-directed by the students. It's only now that he's figured out that learning is something you do for yourself, not because people get on your ass if you don't. He's actually signing up for some classes at the local community college and he thinks he knows what he wants to major in.

None of that was happening in a traditional school setting with grades and testing. Grades and testing was putting him on the path to being a HS drop-out, in fact.

When it's time to go to college FT, he will have some college credits already and it will just be a transfer and not a 1st time admission so the lack of grades will not hurt him at all. He'll might not even have to take the SATs depending on where he ends up going.

IMO we have tests and grades in school because schools are full of bureaucracy and want everything to be standardized. But life isn't standardized. In the long run, grades are meaningless and standardized tests don't define someone's value as a person -- or even how well they'll do in their profession.

[ELENATION 0]

This will just take a moment of your time and it is critical – I do not say this lightly.

We homeschool in California. A few days ago, a California court ruled that homeschooling is illegal. I would appreciate it if as many people as possible would sign a petition to "depublish" this decision (to restrict the decision to the one family involved, and not apply it broadly to all homeschool families). This is important even if you don't live in California. Please click on the link below to sign the petition or get more info on this case. Please consider forwarding this information to those who would also be willing to support us.

To sign the petition, go to: https://www2.hslda.org/Registrations/DepublishingCaliforniaCourtDecision/

Unbelievable.... I'm signing the petition right now. thank you for letting us know Gadget.

[gadgetlady 4]

I just received an update from HSLDA:

State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell comes to the defense of homeschool families. "The California Department of Education policy will not change in any way as a result of this ruling. Parents still have the right to homeschool in this state," he said.

After the Court of Appeal for the Second Appellate District in Los Angeles ruled on February 28 that parents had to be credentialed teachers to educate their own children the statement from O'Connell is encouraging news for the homeschool community.

"O'Connell has it right," said Michael Farris, Chairman of HSLDA. "But the court decision must still be overturned before homeschool freedom can be restored in California."

The Court of Appeal ruling shocked the homeschool community because in one sweeping decision it effectively outlawed homeschooling.

"We hope the statement from O'Connell puts the brakes on any enforcement action," said Farris.

HSLDA will be pursuing several legal options, including seeking review by the California Supreme Court and petitioning the same court to depublish the opinion in order to return California to being a state where a family can legally homeschool in California without fear.

"We have just started the legal battle to restore homeschool freedom in California," said Farris.

[Jennie1976 1]

To me, people who want to get rid of homeschooling are just giving the government another way to take control of your child.

It used to be that kids started school in Kinder (which, even today, is NOT mandatory). Now we have the "First 5" television ads telling us to get our kids in preschool. Why don't we just hand our kids over to the government as soon as they are born (said sarcastically).

Academics are important. Testing is important. Yes, it IS important to see how well you child is doing compared to other children. It lets you know, as a parent, what you need to work on with your child (whether you are homeschooling or not).

However, to me, values are MORE important. My values are not the same as the school system's values (and I'm a teacher!). Even though I teach in the CA public school system, I will NEVER put my child in the public school system.

I have had several students who were homeschooled before coming to my school. They were WAY below grade level. But, they had hard work ethics, good values (in my opinion), and generally caught up quickly (most, but honestly, not all). What do I value most in a student? Not grades or even morals. I value a hard work ethic. ANY student with a hard work ethic will succeed...regardless of their grades.

And having a teaching credential means nothing. When you are an adult, either you ARE a good teacher, or you are not. Having a teaching credential doesn't mean anything. I learned absolutely NOTHING when I got my credential. And all the B.A. classes were extensions of high school. While people without a B.A. may not remember everything from high school and, therefore, have trouble with the material, the credential itself added nothing to my career except another piece of paper.

My two cents worth anyway :-)

[NanaRenan 0]

I have four children aged 18-27.

I have had children in public, private and homeschool.

I have homeschooled as well as worked in public and private schools.

If I had it to do over, I would do whatever was necessary to either private school or homeschool the lot of them all the way through.

I have one school-aged grandchild and my husband and I offered, before she started school to pay for private school. Her mother declined, but after K-1 in public school, she changed her mind and she's been in private for 2, 3 and 4th.

I strongly urge all of my kids to plan and prepare to either homeschool or private school their future children.

There are some AWESOME teachers in public schools. There are some great kids, excellent administrators and exemplary programs. But all that GOOD gets muddied with a miasma of junk and garbage that AT THE VERY LEAST is NOT conducive to learning.

At its worst, it is detrimental to the mental, emotional and physical health of the child and subsequently the family.

[gadgetlady 4]

For any of you who are following this, I just received the following email:

On March 25, the California Court of Appeal granted a motion for

rehearing in the 'In re Rachel L.' case--the controversial decision

which purported to ban all homeschooling in that state unless the

parents held a teaching license qualifying them to teach in public

schools.

The automatic effect of granting this motion is that the prior opinion

is vacated and is no longer binding on any one, including the parties

in the case.

The Court of Appeal has solicited a number of public school

establishment organizations to submit amicus briefs including the

California Superintendent of Public Instruction, California Department

of Education, the Los Angeles Unified School District, and three

California teacher unions. The court also granted permission to

Sunland Christian School to file an amicus brief. The order also

indicates that it will consider amicus applications from other groups.

Home School Legal Defense Association will seek permission to file

such an amicus brief and will coordinate efforts with a number of

organizations interesting in filing briefs to support the right of

parents to homeschool their children in California.

"This is a great first step," said Michael Farris, chairman of HSLDA.

"We are very glad that this case will be reheard and that this opinion

has been vacated, but there is no guarantee as to what the ultimate

outcome will be. This case remains our top priority," he added.

Thank you for your continued support and prayers.

[Marimaru 7]

I'm having trouble finding anything on the original case that started this whole mess. Could someone send me a link to the details of what got this family into the court system in the first place?

Thanks!

[gadgetlady 4]

I'm having trouble finding anything on the original case that started this whole mess. Could someone send me a link to the details of what got this family into the court system in the first place?

It's my understanding that because it happened in family court and involved minors, it's confidential. That was one of the big problems with the case: the decision came with absolutely NO warning at all. None of the homeschooling groups had any idea this was brewing -- it was just a blindside hit. No homeschooling group had any input or arguments before the court at all, and the mother was represented by a court-appointed attorney.

If you want to read the actual decision, go to HSLDA | State Superintendent Supports Homeschooling and click on "Read the Court of Appeals Opinion" at the very bottom.

It's also my understanding that this particular family was no stranger to the courts.

[snuffy65 1]

Signed....

This is why government needs to stay out of personal lives.

[gadgetlady 4]

Signed....

This is why government needs to stay out of personal lives.

Thanks for the support, but how did you sign it? The petition was closed when 250,000 signatures were reached. Did you find another petition somewhere?

[plain 12]

It's a bit off topic (but only a little), but here in Texas (the home of "no child left behind") public schools are a trainwreck. School funding is now directly proportional to the % of how many students pass the standardized test (keep in mind that the actual grades on the test don't matter that much. A perfect score is nearly weighted the same as 1 pt above passing). As a result, teachers spend the whole school year doing nothing but "teaching the test" (maximizing the number of students that will pass.....thus earning more dollars from the state). Teaching the test is ok for low achieving students, but for average and bright students, it is a huge dis-service. Don't believe me? Ask any public teacher in Texas.

The days of a decent public school education in Texas are long gone. Basically, the students only learn what the Texas legislature dictates they should learn.