Vaccinations

[lindata 1]

So my new area of "research" is vaccinations. I read the book by Jenny McCarthy and her autistic son, as well as many other books by doctors on the subject. FYI, the latest stat is there are 1 autistic kid in every 150 (1 in 90 for boys). Some believe it's linked to the MMR shot and their kids change around the 15 month mark when they get that shot.

I'm quite sick at all the toxins found in vaccines - like formaldehyde, aluminum, mercury to name just a few. The doctors don't tell us this before we let our kids get vaccines. New moms hardly have the time to research this. I sure didn't. I remember thinking at the time I wish I had the time to look into this, but I thought well, the doctor knows what's best. Now I have the time to do my research and I wish I hadn't vaccinated as much as I did.

Schools require vaccine records unless you have a medical/religious (or lucky enough to be one of the states for a philosophical) waiver.

So what are your thoughts? Do you believe the law should require you to get them? Do you think schools should require them?

Personally, I believe it's our right to choose. If our kids aren't vaccinated, how does that hurt the vaccinated ones anyway? Unvaccinated kids build up a natural resistance to disease and are much healthier. They develop resistance for life whereas vaccinated kids only have resistance for a few years and are susceptible to the disease as adults (when the symptoms are much worse than as children). And if there's god awful stuff put in them, just why the heck would I choose to give that to my child? The levels of mercury in shots, for example, are waaaay higher than safe levels imposed by the FDA. Just a few factoids to put out there to hem and haw over.

By the way, I'm asking for sharing viewpoints, not bashings ...

[Jachut 487]

I DID research it and decided in favour. I knew the risks and possible side effects of what I was doing but still decided to go with it.

personally I think the risk of the diseases to my very young children outweighed the possible risk of vaccination. There is no proof about vaccinations and autism or other problems to date. Hopefully there never will be.

[babygrl1234 6]

personally I think the risk of the diseases to my very young children outweighed the possible risk of vaccination.

That is precisely why I had my children vaccinated.

[annieM 2]

I had mine vaccinated too. As a microbiologist, I knew way too much about the infections to risk my babies getting them. Especially if they get them at an older age (the risks are worse when people get children's diseases when they are not children anymore).

[Audie 0]

I also had a fear of this, but my daughter's pediatrician was very informative about it. He explained there have been no studies to date confirming the direct correlation between vaccinations and autism. He said it is more coincidental because at the age of MMR is when parents and providers really start to notice the signs of autism. I don't know ... but I decided I'd rather get my child vaccinated than risk her getting exposed to some of those not so nice diseases out there.

[lindata 1]

Hmm, okay, but what about the relatively benign ones like chicken pox and flu. When kids get over chicken pox on their own they're immune for life. If they're vaccinated, they could get it again as adults when the vaccination is no longer effective and the disease is even worse as adults.

I know there's no "proof" as in the government doing studies and saying there are links to autism, but if you listen to the testimony of parents, they have seen, literally, the light go out of their children's eyes once vaccinated with the MMR shot. This happened with another vaccine in the '80's. The parents created an uproar but weren't believed until many (too many) kids were affected by a disorder.

Also, it's not just kids that are affected. There has been a lot of testimony of adults getting shots when required due to their job (health workers, people in the army), and immediately feeling ill effects from vaccinations - some effects that have lasted to date.

Another thought - drug companies have a lot to gain from all these vaccinations, as do the government - the government and drug companies do seem to work hand in hand an awful lot.

And what about the added toxins such as mercury, formaldehyde, aluminum, etc.

I have vaccinated my child so far, but since reading all the literature I'd have to be convinced there aren't any toxins included in the vaccines from now on.

Just food for thought again. Not intended to pick, would just like to know others thoughts.

Thanks!

[blahblahblah 4]

I vaccinated my children according to the schedule provided by the pediatrician.

I don't know if I agree that the government/ drug companies are promoting vaccines because of what they have to gain from it. Really, what do they have to gain from a then extremely large population of special needs folks? I think that would be rather shortsighted and it seems a little conspiracy theory to me.

For my family it didn't make sense to not vaccinate. I did not want my child to become susceptible to the awful diseases that have all but been eradicated in the US.

I know my pediatrician's office firmly feels that if you do not vaccinate your child, you are not welcome to be a part of their facility. They do not want your child to possibly contract a deadly or crippling disease and spread it to a child who has not had the vaccine due to their age. On my children's behalf, I am thankful for their stance.

Also, having taught "research" for many years, I warn all of my students to be wary of the information found (so readily) online. The information is not put through the wringers of proofing that texts are required to go through. There is difficulty in knowing the truth of what one reads online.. I know you didn't say that you found your info online, but in this era, it's the first place so many of us look.

Lorraine

[Jachut 487]

Lindata, it can be extremely anxiety provoking to read that type of thing, and you're right to worry about it, any sensible parent would. The thing I think you have to be careful about, is that in these types of accounts, there's a large proportion of parents who have suffered the agony of this type of disability for their child and they want to blame. Its human nature. It helps them to latch onto something, convince themselves that its true and to help others to see it, so that they dont suffer the same fate. You really have to take the accoutns of emotionally distraught, stressed out people bleeding for their children with a grain of salt.

And I totally agree, there is NOTHING to gain by mass vaccinating a population only to create a glut of special needs children. There is just no sense in it and if there were any indication of this being true, it would be seriously investigated. The human body comes across toxins and poisons from all sorts of sources in modern life, vaccination is just one possible one.

I know how you feel though, there has NEVER been a disposable diaper on one of my children's bums because of dioxins and bleaches and overheating and pollution. They were breastfed for 2 years each, they never ate canned baby food, we never used baby wipes, I didnt coat their little bodies in smelly petroleum byproducts when I bathed them. I did indeed feel qualms about vaccination, but I just couldnt take the risk of losing them to one of those diseases either. We had an asthmatic for starters, whooping cough would have carried him off, and my daughter nearly died of croup. YOu're not just vaccinating against chicken pox (which I didnt give my kids because I felt the disease didnt warrant the risk).

[lindata 1]

Lorraine - actually I haven't been looking online at all, but reading many books on the subject (some authored by medical doctors). I agree with you there, that it's hard to find "the truth" online. I'm trying to find a Water filter, for example, and who exactly do you trust online? You just can't.

I understand that you want to protect your child from the disease. But do you also understand all the side effects from the vaccinations? Just from the pertussis vaccine alone, you can get encephalopathy, neurologic damage, anaphylaxis, anemia, death, among others (straight from the doctor's mouth). There are a few diseases I still will vaccinate against - the risks are too high versus the side effects from the vaccine. But there are others that offer too high a risk for the relatively benign effects from the disease.

As to the conspiracy theory, I had to laugh at that. I totally agree with you, it does sound like a conspiracy theory! Here is a quote from The Vaccine Guide by Randall Neustaedter OMD:

"Conflict of interest abounds in the vaccine business. It starts with a government committee. The Centers for Disease Control appoints members to the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), which makes recommendations to the FDA." "Members of the Advisory Committee are often employed by or funded by vaccine manufacturers. Dr. John Modlin was simultaneously Chairman of the Advisory Committee, served on the Merck Immunization Advisory Board, and was a Merck shareholder. Merck is one of the world's largest vaccine manufacturers."

Jachut - thanks for your understanding!! I wish I had known all I know now. I did put a lot of lotions on my boy (he has eczema), and they all had bad, bad chemicals in them. Now I know. But the damage may already be done. The list goes on of all the things I should have done. You sound like you were onto this a while ago. I wish I knew you then!

And I agree, for example, in your case of a child with asthma receiving the pertussis vaccine - a kid can die trying to breath with that disease + asthma.

I would like to vaccinate wholly just to avoid the debate and the doctor/school issues that arise. A guarantee there are no harmful toxins in the vaccination such as mercury, formaldehyde, aluminum, etc, would give me a lot more peace of mine. That is a huge thing. Think about this - would you drink mercury? I wouldn't. Why would you inject it into a newborn baby?

"Throw in the influences of conflicted-interest clinicians, inept bureaucrats, errant academics, profit-driven investors, greed crazed pharmaceutical CEOs with massive marketing powers, and you get a system out of balance, producing nostrums of limited value or dangerous side effects."

Jack, you have hit the nail on the head as always, oh wise one!

[AlysonRR 0]

We've chosen to selectively vaccinate, and stretch out the sequence. We delayed MMR until each child was 4. I was a little nervous about delaying MMR, but my son already had intestinal and neurological problems and I wanted to be cautious. I asked our pediatrician how many cases of mumps, measles, or rubella he had seen, and he replied that he had a case of mumps in the 80s, a couple cases of measles in the early 90s, and had never seen a case of rubella - I was less nervous after that...

My husband is a virologist, I'm a microbiologist - he knows more about immunology than I so he made a prioritized list of the vaccines and we discussed our modified schedule with the pediatrician. In some cases she suggested a change and if it made sense to us we complied. Since we homeschool we haven't had the additional paperwork required to exempt a child from vaccination yet.

Someone mentioned the difference in the number of vaccines. When I was a child we received a total of around 25 individual vaccinations before the age of 5; my children's original vaccine schedule would have included almost twice that many, most before the age of 2. And many doctors would give two multivalent vaccinations at one visit.

I think forcing a child's immune system to make immune responses to up to six different viruses at one time does not make sense. Yes, some children's systems will manage just fine, but despite the studies that have been done, I still think that at some point a biological connection between the number, timing, and/or formulation of vaccinations and children who have neurological or immune issues will be shown. I have absolutely no scientific basis for this, except a knowledge of the complexity of the human system and the reality that we are still in the infancy of our understanding of it, particularly the brain.

[AlysonRR 0]

Oh, and we had no trouble getting mercury-free vaccines, except for the flu, which is recommended for both me (asthma) and my daughter (who has several heart defects and had open heart surgery at 3 days of age to correct the imminently fatal one). I usually wait til November, and if we've managed not to catch a cold by then we skip the vaccine, but if we've been sick all fall we get the flu shot.

[lindata 1]

I think forcing a child's immune system to make immune responses to up to six different viruses at one time does not make sense. Yes, some children's systems will manage just fine, but despite the studies that have been done, I still think that at some point a biological connection between the number, timing, and/or formulation of vaccinations and children who have neurological or immune issues will be shown. I have absolutely no scientific basis for this, except a knowledge of the complexity of the human system and the reality that we are still in the infancy of our understanding of it, particularly the brain.

Thanks, Alyson. This is how I'm thinking too although I couldn't put it into words and express it like you have so well.

Another problem I see is since governing bodies and the pharmaceutical companies have such deep pockets, it will be even longer before just us regular parents will be able to prove to the general public that links sometimes CAN exist between getting vaccines and the child developing a bad response from it.

[Kat817 19]

My DD was a nurse for a General Practitioner at the time my granddaughter was under 3 and receiving her shots. With the GP she discussed it regularly---and then with the pediatrician worked out a lengthened schedule for giving her her shots---and as has been mentioned she will not receive her MMR until the age of 4. My granddaughter was a preemie, and is still small for her age--being 3 now and still 20 pounds. She is on target for all developement---but that is an awful small body to put all of the combined shots into at one time!

My DIL took my grandson to the pediatrician, and ask for his records since they were moving here, and the pediatrician moved up his shot schedule, and gave that poor baby a total of 5 shots!! That is child abuse in my mind to hold a year old baby down and repeatedly stab them in the legs with needles! For his own good or not----they should have been spaced apart! My DIL is a "go with the Dr." kind of person, and would never dream of refusing or disagreeing. My DD is not.

As for delaying the MMR, her pediatrician said she had never seen an active case of the measles come through her office, and only one case of the mumps---and she agreed as long as they were not doing any international travel. My granddaughter is also not preschooled, or in a standard daycare, she is here with me, no other kids---both questions raised by the pediatrician.

I do believe they will eventually link it in some manner, it is way too coincidental to my way of thinking. But that is just my own feelings on it.

I know that lotions, and OTC medications and all are not safe for our kids----neither is the air we have no choice but to let them breath. The dishes we feed them off of, the bottles many take, the diapers they wear----all the chemicals combined with the chemicals added when a child is vaccinated may play a role. It might be the one combination----that no one knows yet. For instance it might be the ABC chemical in the Tylenol you give prior to the shot combined with the DEF chemical in the Huggies diaper they are wearing, along with the GHI chemical in the diaper rash cream, goes haywire when it comes in contact with the JKL chemical in the shot....especially if the child inhales a good lung full of the MNO chemicals in Moms perfume!!

There are so many factors. I don't see this as a right or wrong. It falls in with the SAHM vs. working moms------------we all have our beliefs and reasons---none of them wrong--we do what we feel is best for us and our kids. And need to be supportive of those choosing other methods.

Kat

[lindata 1]

I do believe they will eventually link it in some manner, it is way too coincidental to my way of thinking. But that is just my own feelings on it.

I know that lotions, and OTC medications and all are not safe for our kids----neither is the air we have no choice but to let them breath. The dishes we feed them off of, the bottles many take, the diapers they wear----all the chemicals combined with the chemicals added when a child is vaccinated may play a role. It might be the one combination----that no one knows yet. For instance it might be the ABC chemical in the Tylenol you give prior to the shot combined with the DEF chemical in the Huggies diaper they are wearing, along with the GHI chemical in the diaper rash cream, goes haywire when it comes in contact with the JKL chemical in the shot....especially if the child inhales a good lung full of the MNO chemicals in Moms perfume!!

There are so many factors. I don't see this as a right or wrong. It falls in with the SAHM vs. working moms------------we all have our beliefs and reasons---none of them wrong--we do what we feel is best for us and our kids. And need to be supportive of those choosing other methods.

Kat

What a great way to explain it. These are my thoughts also - chemicals are linked in such a way and some children can be affected more than others. It's like Russian roulette to know which ones will be affected until it's too late.

And I agree too that we all have our opinions and moms and dads know what's right for our children. I'm not saying vaccinating is wrong, but for my child I'm not sure it's right. I believe it's all about parents choice, not some governing official somewhere with his kids already grown up and out of the house to tell ME what to do with my kid, by law. That just ticks me off. Parents know what's right for our kids!

[Jachut 487]

Well said Kat.