Sabotaging all the good work

[Iluvharleys 15]

Lisa I always lose some weight in the summer time, but I always gain it back in the winter. I know everyone is different, but the weather does affect me and my weight. And, some people can't lose weight regardless of the weather. I think every person is different, and different things affect them. What you eat and what I eat can make a big difference in our weight. Things I do different in the summer than the winter makes a big difference for me. Maybe it doesn't for you. Maybe all those ladies in Florida don't diet at all, and maybe they do. Who knows? I just know what works for me.

[donali 57]

Lisa -

I find your claims that people who state that the seasons affect their appetites and eating habits are just looking for "excuses" to overeat offensive.

I find it PARTICULARLY disturbing to see morbidly obese people perpetuating this kind of myth - that our morbid obesity is due solely to our "excuses" to overeat.

We are all here trying to do something about our behaviours and physical predispositions to MO. We are fighting this disease with everything we have. We do not need a member of our ranks telling us that we are simply overeating all the time, and THAT's why we are overweight.

IT IS NOT TRUE - PER THE MEDICAL EXPERTS!!!

Please re-read this post - also note, in particular, these excerpts:

***************

Morbid obesity is a chronic disease which is defined as a disruption of bodily function that develops slowly and persists for an extended period of time and often for life. It is multifactorial and includes genetic predisposition, environmental factors, social economic factors, cultural influences, hormonal influences and digestive abnormalities.

People who suffer from obesity are poorly misunderstood by those of the population who are not obese. There is a common attitude that overweight people are stupid and unable to control themselves.

!!!!!People who are morbidly obese often find it difficult to believe that their problem is a medical disease and not simply due to overeating. !!!!!

!!!!!!!We now know that the medical condition of morbid obesity is a complex disorder, and not simply due to over-eating.!!!!!!!

**************

Morbid Obesity is a DISEASE

<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Morbid Obesity is a DISEASE. It has been recognized as a disease since 1985(!!!!) by the National Institutes of Health (NIH).

This is going to be a long rant… I mean, post.

The longer I thought about doctors who make a patient lose weight before weightloss surgery as “proof” of their commitment to a healthier lifestyle, the angrier I got. I am FURIOUS. I am INCENSED. These surgeons are making their livings “treating” obesity, and THEY DON’T EVEN KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT OBESITY TO CALL IT A DISEASE. THEY DON’T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT OBESITY TO REALIZE THAT IN 1991, THE NIH CONCLUDED IN ITS CONSENSUS CONFERENCE THAT DIETS, EXERCISE PROGRAMS, APPETITE SUPPRESSANTS AND BEHAVIOR MODIFCATIONS ARE NOT EFFECTIVE THERAPIES. YES, I am YELLING.

Because if they DID, they would NEVER tell a patient who desperately needed their help that they must lose weight FIRST – to PROVE they are serious about getting better!!!!

And to have this kind of attitude propagated on a weightloss SUPPORT board as acceptable under ANY kind of circumstances is absolutely reprehensible, and a symptom of just how well the prejudice against fat people is accepted. Not only is it tolerated, it is expected as our “just” punishment for being fat. Because after all, we are merely gluttons. The formula is so simple: too many calories in = too much fat. So diet and exercise. Too bad for you that you’re not one of the “normal” people who can regularly consume more calories than they need without getting fat – you are NOT a “normal” person, so you must just go hungry and exercise your butt off.

Guess what? The formula is NOT that simple. NO ONE really knows the complete explanation of why some people become MO and some people don’t. But not understanding “why” is NO excuse for discriminating against the MO, or continuing to blame the patient for their disease.

If a person could not swim, would it be acceptable for the lifeguard to say, “I could save you, but FIRST you must swim 20 feet to PROVE that you really want to be saved.”? Or better yet, “You can’t swim, so you should never have come into the Water in the first place. Why should I bother saving you? This is your fault.”

Except in the extreme cases of denying organ transplants to smokers and alcoholics, I have NEVER heard of denying treatment until the patient starts to get better on their own as an acceptable medical response. (I’m not saying I agree with the transplant thing, just that I have heard that a smoker who doesn’t quit wouldn’t be considered for a lung transplant, and an alcoholic that doesn’t quit wouldn’t be considered for a liver transplant. I don’t even know if that’s true – I’ve just heard it.)

Diabetics are not denied medication until they can prove they can get their blood sugar under control with a commitment to eliminating sugars from their diet and exercise.

Smokers are not denied the nicotine patch until they can prove that they can quit smoking for four weeks first.

A double-amputee is not denied their prosthetics to enable them to walk until they walk two blocks without the prosthetics, to PROVE that they really want to walk again FIRST. The prosthetics, after all, are just TOOLS – not “cures” for amputeeism.

People with high cholesterol are not denied medication until they are able to lower their cholesterol first, through diet and exercise.

If a depressed person goes to the doctor for treatment, and they meet the protocol, the doctor would NEVER say “Snap out of it first. Then I’ll give you the medication you need to maintain a non-depressed state.”

Anorexics are never told "JUST eat!!" Their condition is taken very seriously, and requires medical and psychological intervention.

I ask you all, then, WHY IS IT ACCEPTABLE TO REQUIRE A MO PERSON TO LOSE WEIGHT BEFORE TREATMENT?!?!?!? YES, we have to make lifestyle changes – but just like the amputee, we can’t do it without a TOOL. We have a DISEASE.

I feel that I have done the emotional work. I have completed a professional counseling program specifically for compulsive overeaters. I’ve been hypnotized. I’ve done every diet known to man, and some that I made up myself. How DARE ANYONE tell me that I am NOT serious about losing weight?!?!

I cried on the way into work this morning thinking about this. I am crying now. I will NOT accept punishment for this disease. I will NOT accept blame for this disease. I WILL accept the responsibility of doing something about it, however. But I cannot do it alone – because I am NOT “normal”, and I will ALWAYS need some sort of treatment to HELP me, until they find a cure. And I cannot stand by and let anyone forget that we are NOT here because of some moral failing, some character flaw, some personal weakness. We are here because we have a DISEASE. We need treatment, not judgment. If we were not serious about getting better, we would not be here.

NO ONE deserves to feel badly about themselves because they have a disease. NO ONE should be made to jump through hoops to prove they want to recover from their disease. MO is NOT A CHARACTER FLAW. This is NOT my opinion – this is medical FACT. It is up to US to know and understand this, and to eradicate the long-held beliefs that we have allowed to shame us for all of our lives. We must NEVER EVER allow anyone to get away with propagating beliefs that MO is anything but a disease that requires medical treatment.

***************

http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:OTJxKzuvN8QJ: www.shapeup.org/profcenter/diabesity/PoriesPres.ppt+is+morbid+obesity+a+disease%3F&hl=en

"The truth is that Morbid obesity is a disease, not a moral failing."

“Obesity is a chronic, lifelong, genetically-related, life-threatening disease with highly significant medical, psychological, social, physical, and economic co-morbidities.”

Statement on morbid obesity and its treatment. Obesity Surgery 1997 7:40-41

“In 1991, the National Institutes of Health concluded in its Consensus Conference that diets, exercise programs, appetite suppressants and behavior modifications are not effective therapies.”

Report of the Consensus Conference on Surgery of Morbid Obesity, National Institutes of Health, Washington, DC 1991

**************

http://www.rsapc1.com/morbid_obesity_surgery/

"Morbid obesity is the most common form of malnutrition in the United States and in the world today. It is considered after smoking to be the second leading preventable cause of death in the United States. It is a chronic disease which is very complex and has multiple etiologies."

"We lose over 300,000 patients a year to morbid obesity and morbid obesity related medical problems."

"There are social, psychosocial and economic consequences of morbid obesity that can be devastating. Unfortunately, the prejudice against the obese is very common in our society."

"Conservative management of morbid obesity that includes diet, behavioral modifications, exercise programs and the like have been found to be ineffective over the long term. A person who is morbidly obese who attempts conservative management, as mentioned above, either alone or in any combination, is not expected to be successful more than 5% of the time. Over 95% of patients who are morbidly obese and meet the criteria for morbid obesity will regain their weight and often overshoot their previous weight. Surgery for morbid obesity is the only method that has resulted in long-term maintenance of weight loss and the reduction of the comorbid diseases that are associated with morbid obesity. In particular, hypertension, dibetes mellitus, risks for coronary disease, osteoarthritis, gastroesophageal reflux disease and many others.

Morbid obesity is a chronic disease which is defined as a disruption of bodily function that develops slowly and persists for an extended period of time and often for life. It is multifactorial and includes genetic predisposition, environmental factors, social economic factors, cultural influences, hormonal influences and digestive abnormalities. In 1985 morbid obesity was recognized as a disease with associated comorbid diseases by the National Institute of Health. In 1991, surgical weight loss stated to be superior to nonsurgical weight loss methods and that only surgical intervention produced acceptable long-term results. In 1993 the National Institute of Health recognized the vertical banded gastroplasty and the gastric bypass procedure to be effective in significant reduction of excess body weight. The National Institute of Health recognizes morbid obesity as being an epidemic that can only be reduced significantly by surgical intervention for both morbid obesity and its associated comorbid problems."

****************

http://www.landauercosmeticsurgery.co.uk/obesity/

"OBESITY: A MEDICAL CONDITION

People who suffer from obesity are poorly misunderstood by those of the population who are not obese. There is a common attitude that overweight people are stupid and unable to control themselves. People who are obese are often the brunt of cruel jokes and thoughtless humour, even to the point of suffering abusive comments in public places.

We now know that the medical condition of morbid obesity is a complex disorder, and not simply due to over-eating. The vast majority of people living in the Western World eat more calories than they need but it is only a small proportion that relentlessly lay down every excess calorie in their fat stores. Most people have a mechanism, by which their body knows when their stores have been refilled, but there is an unfortunate group of people where this mechanism is defective, and when they eat it can be likened to filling up the bath with the overflow blocked off.

There are of course no fat people in starvation areas of the world, but this is because these are regions with chronic malnutrition and nobody there has access to even adequate calories.

People who are morbidly obese often find it difficult to believe that their problem is a medical disease and not simply due to overeating.

MORBID OBESITY IN FAMILIES

The disorder of morbid obesity often runs in families. The chance of having morbid obesity is clearly increased if other people in your family have the condition. Studies of identical twins who were separated at birth and brought up separately show that if one twin becomes obese, then the other one is likely to become obese as well."

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[La_madam 20]

Lisa I was heavier last summer then Iam now..all I was saying was that in the summer and spring when the sun is shining and the weather is warmer and I more active I tend to eat less and eat healthier like more fruits & salads. In the winter I eat more casseroles, pot roasts, potatoes, more of the comfort foods. The weather just plays a part in my food choices is all..I'm still obese.

But not for much longer :devious

[DeLarla 22]

I was wrong. I stand corrected. Donali's post is correct, and I am sorry.

I allowed a doctor to make me feel like I was making excuses, and I even argued with him till I allowed him to win. He won and now I'm preaching his word, so instead of editing my comment, let me apologize and correct myself here:

We are all morbidly obese, year round. Our disease does not ebb and flow with the tides, and it doesn't go away when the sun shines.

And Donali yelled at me. Ouch!

[donali 57]

Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings - but I paid a LOT of money to get back my self-esteem regarding my weight and my inability to control it, and I will NOT let anyone take it back away from me without a fight. Particularly another sufferer.

Do I overeat? HECK yeah!! Do I naturally eat less sometimes and more than others? HECK yeah!! Is this phenomenon always due to some sort of emotional/psychological problem? Before being banded, I could have been persuaded that yes, maybe my overeating was due soley to emotional/psychological issues.

HOWEVER - I HAVE been banded. And I ate less without feeling deprived or hungry. I felt like a normal person. I did NOT think about food every single minute. The band did not change me emotionally/psychologically, so I HAVE to believe that there is a physical component to MY obesity. Were there times that I still tried to overeat while I was banded, even though I WAS full? HECK yeah!!! But most of the time I did NOT.

NOT because of willpower, or deprivation - but because I simply did not feel the drive to eat, and had no physical hunger.

(((hugs))) Lisa, and to everyone. We have many hurts to be healed. The important thing is that regardless of why any one of us is MO, we ARE doing something about it.

xxooxxooxx

[Madeline's mom 0]

Donali,

THANY YOU! I am going to print that post off because I get tired of explaining why I am having to undergo weight loss surgery to loose weight. Your post says it all. The next person that says anything to me about this I will enlighten them with the facts from your post.

And Lisa I know there are so many people around us that WOULD have us believe that our obesity is merely something we can control with mere diet and excercise. I bought into that theory for about oh 20 years. Luckily, the light came on for me and thanks to you and all the bandsters on this board I now believe that there is hope for me to control of this disease that has plagued me most of my life!

I am glad you posted that because now I have some ammo for all those people that are telling me "I am taking the easy way out"

-----I LOVE THIS BOARD-------

[Penni60 45]

WOW!! Donali, calm down. I have struggled all my life with weight issues. I have not undergone therapy. I have done some heavy soul searching over why I eat. I use food as comfort. It gives me compassion, love, support, kindness, and it also gives me hatred, self-loathing, depression, disgust at the same time. I feel this way everytime I eat something. And it doesn't matter what the weather is doing outside. It doesn't matter if I have lost 5 lbs or 100 lbs. Everytime I put a morsel of food into my mouth I go through the same emotions all over again and again and again. This is what makes our addiction, disease, hang up, whatever you wanna call it different than cancer, diabetes, etc.

The way we "deal" with those emotions can determine how successful our journey can be.

I too LOVE this board.

[kimalicious 5]

I think what Betty is trying to say is that the psychological affect the sun has on her brain tends to roll over into her eating habits. The longer days of summer compared to the shorter days of winter affect the feelings she has. This is a psychological truth and there are even disorders that go along with it. She doesn't actually mean that when the rain hits her skin she runs to the refrigerator, it could mean when it's cold and rainy that gets her down, when she is down her brain triggers her to eat. It is all a mind game when it comes to what we eat and if the weather affects your brain emotionally it will affect your eating also emotionally.

As for the original post, GIRL WE ALL DO IT!! We all know how bad you feel once the plate is empty and your belly is full and you just thought it was going to taste so wonderful (and it probably did). This is one thing I've learned is too remember this feeling the next time you just throw something back with out thought to it. Remember it may be absofreakinlutely awesome for about 1 minute, but the feeling afterwards last much longer! Just know that even skinny people can eat entire chocolate cakes also and feel the same way. Eveyone does it, just know that you can go work out some tonight and combat some of its powers on your waistline. 1 hour of working out can burn around 600 calories and then you are down to 1200 from your cake and that seems more reasonable in the whole scheme of things.

I'm sorry my response is so long and probably boring but just know that I love everyone's point of view here and we are all jealous that you have chocolate cake at your house!!

[Belle joufflue une 1]

As they say, "The truth is in the numbers."

Take a look for a minute what your numbers are saying.

172 lost.

My goodness. That is a whole couple of human beings.

You must be doing something right there. We all have moments when we need what we know. For many of us on this board it is food. We love food.< /p>

But, tomorrow is another day. You are doing great, and no 1800 calories of chocolate cake can take that away from you.

[donali 57]

WOW!! Donali, calm down.

Nope - sorry, Penni. Can't WON'T calm down about this particular subject. People have a right to their opinions,but if they are not based on fact then they should at least KNOW that.

I will not rollover and let anyone tell me that my MO is due simply to my overeating, and there is no other reason. We just had a thread about WP, the disease where the sufferer gets NO full feeling, EVER. Where cabinets and refrigerators literally have to be locked-up to keep these people from eating themselves to death.

And while I will not insult those sufferers by pretending that I have one tenth of their problem, the fact remains that I feel hungry almost all of the time - even when I'm FULL I feel hungry. I don't have WP, but I do have something similar to a much lessor degree. Just because a diabetic doesn't have to take insulin shots doesn't mean that they are not still diabetic. There are degrees to every disease, and there are degrees to all of our problems.

I will not sit by silently and let anyone say that "our" problems are due solely to overeating, when medical literature says that's not true. Perhaps it is true for some, but it is not true for all.

There is definitely a psychological component to my obesity. There are definitely things I can do to help manage that. But MY obesity definitely has a physical component as well, that was solved with banding. That physical aspect of my disease has now returned without having the band to keep it in check.

[whippledaddy 5]

Would AA have been the success it is if it had been started by a couple of tea totalers?

What would an alchoholic give for a device that made it impossible for them to get more than three drinks into themselves in a day?

A lot of thin people give me a lot of advice. Some of them have lots and lots of capital letters after their names. Those letters and titles prove they can study for tests. They can never prove that they care, or have an inkling of what we MO's are all about.

No man knows what it's like to be a woman. No woman knows what it's like to be a man. If you've never had cancer, you can't begin to understand what it is really like. No thin person will ever understand what it's like to be fat. Thank God.

I'm not an alchoholic, and yet I never give a thought about how to not be one. Do thin people give a thought as to how not to be fat? Nope. The only people wondering how not to be fat are fat people. The skinny folks with titles after their names make a living off the fat of the land. But it's only book learning, folks.

No person who has not walked a mile in my shoes can tell me what my problem is. I know. I'm not fat because it's winter. I'm fat because of how I deal with winter, and every other setback in life, large or small. You can say that I didn't eat that piece of pie because I was bored, or stressed. You can say it. But you'll be as wrong as wrong can be. I'm not fat because I was stressed. I'm fat because I chose to use food as a coping mechanism. I'm not fat because it's winter. I'm fat because I choose to use food as a comfort, instead of body fuel. But to tell me that I didn't eat that pie in a moment of weakness sparked by some stress inducing event.................Wrong.

I have a disease. Before I had a band my days were a string of little losses, and failures. My disease was winning. It was killing me. With the band, I can have less days of failure.

I have a disease. And no matter what anyone says, it's not in my power to beat this disease with will power alone. I've proven that a thousand times. Beating my disease isn't about losing pounds. Pounds are just a symptom. Beating the disease will ease the symptoms. Beating my disease is about making choices that don't feed the disease. It's about living my life without making each day a practice session in how not to be fat. Thin people don't think about being thin. Fat people do little else.

Today, just today, I'm going to deal with all my problems instead of burying them under food. I'm going to go through this day and never once think about how not to be fat.

If you think that's easy to do, then go stand in a corner and don't think of a white bear.

[NancySmiles 2]

I know this is NOT what you wanna hear...but according to the Dietitian, it takes a good YEAR to at least get on the road to changing our eating habits. Look how long it took us to perfect them....they can't and they won't go away in a few months.

Look how AWESOME you've all done!!! 172 pounds!!! Holy cow...that is 2 small people!!! Just get back on the wagon and continue where you left off!!!

WE CAN DO THIS!!!!!!

[DeniseG 3]

I am too. Don't let the posts fool you. We all have our bad days. If we could lose weight with diet and excercise alone, we wouldn't have needed the band in the first place.

I had one of those days myself. I had been a good girl for 3 weeks. Today, I had a bad day. I know it is stress and worry. I have a major inspection that I have been put in charge of in which I have no experience. I have been hungry for bad food all day.

[Audrey 21]

Thanks so much for your heartfelt replies.

I honestly didn't mean to provoke this kind of reaction... I am just having a wee bad few days of eating crap and generally feeling sorry for myself - I was intrigued to read your passionate replies - it often surprises me when we stick up for ourselves - I suppose i'm so used to "defending" rather than "fighting" for ourselves - y'no?

I'm going to "try" to get back on track over the next few days... maybe like a few have suggested - give myself a break & start afresh on "Monday" (lol)... who knows maybe before !!

I know i've lost an awful lot of weight... I think I'm scared that these feelings will never go away & I'll always have to fight... the realisation is hitting home I think. This is a lifetime of fighting the weight battle - but hey... at least we have a fantastic chance of winning the fight with our bands eh?

Aud x

[donali 57]

(((Audrey)))

You are doing so fantastic - some days the dragon wins...