Man forced to pay child support for a kid that isn't his

[luluc 6]

Heather, that is truly tragic. My heart goes out to your family!!

[gadgetlady 4]

kagoscuba, I think we agree on this one. I don't believe he should have to pay if it's not his child.

[healthyagain 0]

I too believe that a child should not suffer. But why should an innocent man suffer?? Let the state dept pick up the tab for this child. They do for so many others who have no self supporting parents. This guy has taken the fall for a dishonest and selfish woman. And if they want what's in the child's best interest, they may allow the man and his daughter continue to have an emotionally healthy father daughter relationship. If the State does not want to pay for this little girl as they do for so many others, Then they should go after her MOTHER. She caused the situation in the first place.

[Kat817 19]

I agree that the only way this man should be required to pay for a child that is not his, is by agreement. Then the CS should hinge on full adoption, he should have as much legal right to fight to raise the child as she does if he is going to pay for the child.

This business of you pay, but you don't get to share in the childs life is crap! It will be a moot point as soon as the child is old enough to be properly brain washed to the custodial parents way of thinking anyway!

I can honestly say without a doubt the best gift I ever gave my DD was to not talk trash about her father---and to let her develop her own relationship and eventual opinion of him.

I realize this is not an option with the pedophile father in prison, but in a general sense....I could not give her a set of loving parents, but I also worked VERY hard not to give her my feelings on the matter. I did not raise a dummy, she is an adult now, and sees things with an adult eye and heart, and she knows. But she never had to experience the hurt the kids we are discussing did.

I watched my Aunt divorce at the same time I did, her kids were in their early teens, and she talked to them about the divorce, their Dads infidelities, etc., I saw them hurt---they still in their late 30's struggle with it! The only good thing I found in it, was instruction in what not to do!

Poor kids in all these cases end up suffering because of parents. I hope as divorce becomes more and more prevalent ... that more of them learn from their own childhoods, to be more accepting, and handle the divorce better.

Kat

[luluc 6]

I think my brother's Ex is starting to see the errors of her way, and what she's doing to her daughter. Who needs a good pit bull lawyer when you have gradma on steroids. My mom will just show up at my niece's school or her mother's home, not to cause problems...but to bring her lunch, cards, etc. Mom is "All about the kids" & doesn't want her to feel like we've walked away from her even though the courts & her mom have let her down.

Kat, I think it's SO important to never involve children in adult issues. Children are not blind to see someones character & intent, it's when they are adults - they get to choose who they want to spend time with, and it never works in the favor of the one parent who slanders the other.

[Jennie1976 1]

I know my views are WAY out there to most, but I don't believe in child support. I think children of divorced parents should go to the parent who wants them most, not the one who wants to get paid to take care of their own children. Yes, fathers should contribute; I'm not disputing that. However, if my husband and I got divorced, I would be happy to have my children...period. I would rather have my children 100% of the time with NO money, than anything else and receive child support.

[Marimaru 7]

I know my views are WAY out there to most, but I don't believe in child support. I think children of divorced parents should go to the parent who wants them most, not the one who wants to get paid to take care of their own children. Yes, fathers should contribute; I'm not disputing that. However, if my husband and I got divorced, I would be happy to have my children...period. I would rather have my children 100% of the time with NO money, than anything else and receive child support.

I get what you're saying, as far as a theory... my mom got us as kids after their divorce, and my dad never paid child support. It was very rough for a while, but she managed. She could have gone after my dad, and since he was broke he probably would have ended up in jail, but mom didn't think it was worth it. But there are people out there who want their kids more than anything, however cost is a considerable factor when you're faced with whether or not you can pay the rent, based on whether or not you get the child support you are supposed to get.

I know of one person who gets child support, and yet her daughter has never been to the dentist. The entire point of child support is to take care of the child's needs. Whenever I hear about this woman getting something knew and rather expensive, I get really angry (an ex's ex). Of course, my ex would rather pay the money than have his kid, so he doesn't do anything about it. (let's not go into reasons he's my ex, heh)

[gadgetlady 4]

I think child support is very often misused, used by the parent for his/her purchases rather than for care of the child. I've seen this within my own family; my brother has a son and his mother hasn't had a job in 11 years because she lives off the child support -- yet his son is often in need of various caretaking things that the child support should be going for.

That being said, I think child support should be required of biological parents. Certainly both mother and father should have responsibility for caring for any child that is the result of their union.

[Kat817 19]

Oh I believe both parents should pay to support their children! I also understand exactly what you are saying Marimaru--I was in the same boat. I made a concious decision, that I would rather forego the support, and have the money to pay the bills. When you have a certain amount to live on, you have to choose, to either hire a lawyer to get the unpaid support, or pay your bills. I could have withheld visitation so HE took it to court, but the one getting hurt in that would have been my DD. It was my choice not to spend her entire childhood fighting with her Dad. She soon was old enough to realize. One of her friends who had a Dad who actually paid, was telling Manda that her Mom was so unfair---she got paid over $200.00 a month for child support, and Mom only paid her $10.00 a week allowance with it. So Manda ask me why she didn't get any---I told her point blank her Dad did not pay CS. And explained to her that even if he did pay me $200.00 a month, then that money was supposed to be used to SUPPORT her--not just SPOIL her! That it was to help pay utilities and groceries, buy new shoes and clothes and Vitamins....all the things it takes to help raise a kid. She ask me---well if he doesn't pay child support how do I have those things? I told her that was why I ran the day care, so I could provide them. She must have been all of 8 years old, and she says "Well I think if he won't help we are better off with him not living here, he drinks a lot of beer, and I bet it costs lots of money!" Out of the mouths of babes!!!

I too would take my child---with or without child support--I did! But ideally a true DAD---not just a Sperm Donor, would want to be a part of the childs life and that includes financial obligations. They would not leave that decision simply up to you.

I do agree though that there are likely just as many women out there who misuse the money they do get for child support, as there are men who simply don't pay. It is a flawed system as many are, but with something like this where emotion runs so high, it is a hard thing to work out.

Kat

[bonniep 0]

As the adult child of a father who never gave my mother any child support, I feel I'm in the unique position to share my feelings on this subject.

First of all, if a man is the person that the child thinks is their father, then the man is that child's father, period. If the man believed he was the father, then he should still believe he is the father. The love for a child doesn't just go away with biology.

Hopefully, the man will be mature enough to keep the child in his life and let her know that he loves her unconditionally. THAT is in the best interest of the child.

Should he pay child support?

If the biological father can be located and if he's in the position to pay, then he should pay, assuming he can maintain the standard of living to which the child has become accustomed. The child should not suffer, ie: be made to move to a cheaper house, apartment, etc., because of this.

I think the judge has to decide what's in the best interest of the child and not what's in the best interest of the father or father's here....

The fact that my father loved me very much, but never gave my mother an ounce of child support came back to bite him a BIG way when he got older and sick and needed me.

The fact that he never bothered to take care of me when I was a child, ie: make sure there was a roof over my head, make sure I had food to eat, etc., was a never ending resentment on my part from the time my parents divorced (I was 10), to the time my father died when I was 38. It didn't matter that my father gave me an "allowance," starting when I was 16 -- when I was old enough so that he knew the money wouldn't go to my mother. It didn't matter that my father helped me through college, paid for part of my wedding, etc. None of that mattered. What mattered was my watching my mother work long hours and tons of overtime from the second she divorced my father, leaving me to be a latchkey kid long before the term was even coined, watching my mother work herself sick just to put a roof over my head and food in my mouth -- that's what mattered. When my father got sick and needed me, I was there, but no way "there," in the same way I'm there for my mother now that she needs me. Basically, I placed my father in a nursing home (he had a chronic, dehabilitating disease that eventually killed him), and it wasn't on my dime, either. If he had run out of money, I would have put him into a state-supported home -- I was not going to spend one cent of my money on his care. I visited him once-a-month or so and that was that. I loved my father, but there was a lot of ambivalence there.

My mother is elderly now and she's in a lovely assisted living complex 10-minutes from my house. I am over there 3-4 times a week, just to hang out with her. Her welfare is as important to me as is the welfare of my children. If not for my mother, I wouldn't be here right now and you bet that it's payback time.

Just my experience and my 2 cents. Not paying child support directly effects the child. I feel that I suffered a great deal of psycological damage because of my father's actions that were taken out of spite toward my mother. She got over it and moved on. I never did and I'm 54 years old now.

There you have it.

b.

[green 6]

After I threw him out, my ex-husband moved in with the woman with whom he had been having an affair during our marriage. She had a toddler whose "real" father showed no interest in him. During the time they lived together my ex grew to really love the little boy. When they broke up he was no longer able to see the kid. He mourned the loss of this child for a long, long time. The loss of this little boy was very difficult for my ex-husband's parents to deal with as well. They said to him: No more girlfriends with children, please.

My current husband has become in the way of being a surrogate father figure for his sister's two girls even though they live in France and we live in Toronto. (They spend their summers in Canada.) Though their own father insists on them spending time with him, whenever he does have custody of them he is careless with them and as a result they dread seeing him. I have heard that he is also careless about paying support on time. Their parents' divorce is a bitter one and has been going on for years now. The girls are paying a price for this. The older girl has a streak of bitterness towards her parents and suffers from anxiety; the younger one has difficulty concentrating on her schoolwork. This is very sad to see. They are lovely girls and their close relationship with my husband gives him and myself great pleasure.

While I can understand this man's rage - the man discussed in the opening post - at being duped by his ex-wife into raising a child who is not his, genetically speaking, I cannot understand why he is attempting to punish his ex-wife this way. The individual whom he is really hurting is the child with whom he has had a father-daughter relationship ever since she was born. It is tragic to see that smashed, I think. Children really do need all the love that they can get.

[Kat817 19]

While I agree that in the case the OP cited, they should put the child first, if he continues to treat this child as his own, he might feel as though he is just continuing to allow her (mom) to rub salt in his open wounds.

We know judges make men pay for children who aren't theirs....but not all judges!

We never know how the judge is going to rule in any case--especially ones like these.

If the Mom is withholding the child now since it "is not his"....that is going to be a threat from her til the day the child turns of age. She may not have him by the short & curlies but she has him by the heart----and knows it!

It does need to be decided by a judge in the best interest of the child--------but then it needs to be enforced! THAT is where my problems come in, leaving my DD to feel very much like bonniep mentions.

I was awarded child support! He was awarded visitation. Did he do either? Nope! He would allow her to come see him-------if I brought her and picked her up--------he could not be bothered. And he did not pay his support--------but as I said before, legal help is either a years away waiting list for legal aid, or high dollar! You choose---pay the bills or hire an attorney, and allow yourself as well as the child to be drug into the court system yet again.

Back to the OP--it states that the judge found it not in the best interest of the child to determine paternity. Does that mean, the father is a relative, or someone it is going to be traumatic to reveal, or that the father is unknown? I feel for this child ~~ BUT still believe that man to be within his rights to know, be put on the birth certificate, and given parental rights, or have the right to bow out of the picture. Obviously the Mom has thrown it in his face that he is not the Father, or it come out in some way, or he would still be going about his business assuming to be the father, and this would not have been in court. Is there any reason to believe if Mom brought it up once, she won't repeatedly anytime he does not toe the line with her?

While the child is the #1 concern this man too has rights!

The Mom in this case holds ALL the cards! She can opt to tell the child at any time - he is not your Dad. She can hold back visits....She possibly knows who is the Dad, and the day he makes more money than the ex, then she might come forward. While we concern ourselves, and rightly so, with the child, this man has to be dealt with fairly too--it is his life too---he only gets one same as the rest of us, and if his heart has been ripped out by the revealing that this child is not his, does he deserve to have that happen again, and again at the hands of the deceptive ex wife?

Yes it seems cruel to want out of the childs life---but sometimes you have to have the anger to get through the pain of a situation. Not to sound extremely sexist, but it is much easier for many men to be angry than it is for them to be sad--they are victims of their own raising.

Bottom line in my opinion is this poor child does not have much of a chance. Whether "Dad" is in the picture or not, she is living with a lying, manipulative woman, who is very unlikely to change her ways. That will be what she learns as she grows.

We have branched out into 2 totally different discussions here--one of this man who wants his CS reduced, done away with and reimbursement, and another totally different discussion of Non paying parents in divorce.

While I do not support the Father who has access to his children, and refuses to pay, such as my ex husband, and bonniep's father-----I still feel the case in the OP is 100% different!

Unfortunately he is going to be dealt with in a court used to seeing Dead Beat Parents--and he is going to be colored with that whether it is deserving or not.

Kat

[bonniep 0]

Unfortunately, the majority of the father's that are brought into court by their ex-wives regarding child support issues are deadbeat dads. This influences judges in terms of father's who aren't deadbeat dads, but so it goes. Life isn't fair and a judge has to look at what's best for the children in each and every case. There are some mother's who live off of the child support in lieu of spending the money on the child, but there's really nothing a father can do about that. I have a friend whose ex-wife spends on herself and spends nothing on the kids. This man buys his 2 daughters clothes and everything else they need when they visit him, even though he pays a fortune ($2,400 per month), in child support. The bottom line is that this man is going to have a wonderful relationship with his two girls when they become adults, while the mother will not. What goes around comes around, especially when it comes to parenting.

In my own case, there is no doubt in my mind that my father loved me. He didn't pay my mother child support out of spite -- he was furious that she left him and not sending child support was his form of payback. As a child and a teenager, I watched my mother sacrifice for me and do without, so that I could have nice clothes and piano lessons and summer camp and I never forgot it. Children see what's going on and they're very perceptive. Once they become adults, they're able to understand what went on and who sacrificed and who didn't and let me tell you, if the parent didn't pay when the kid was young, they'll pay later on in terms of the relationship.

My mother didn't take my father to court for child support because she didn't want to put me through the trauma. Back when I was a kid, I would have had to go to court and testify. Frankly, I was all for her taking my father to court -- I wanted her to stick it to him -- but in retrospect she probably did the right thing because it really would have been traumatic for me.

I think that a man who is not the biological father of a child but who has accepted the child as his, should have to pay child support. The relationship is with the child and is separate from the relationship with the mother. The man can choose to take the mother to court if in fact she defrauded him (assuming she knew he wasn't the father and lied about it -- good luck proving that in court, BTW), or he could take the biological father to court, if he can prove the biological father knew, etc. I agree that any payment should only have to be made after the child is grown up and out of the house, so that the child isn't made to suffer either emotionally or financially.

This is a very loaded subject and while adults are often the victims where child support is concerned, it's the children who suffer. My vote goes to the kids -- anything and everything should be done to prevent them from having to bear the brunt of adult problems in an adult world.

bonnie

[green 6]

It seems to me that the issues which we are discussing here are very complicated. Let's break them down.

1) Should a man who is legally married to a woman but who is not the biological father be required to pay child support?

2) If this man has been raising this child as his own is he not now both morally and legally bound to continue his support? He has, afterall, already entered into an emotional and financial contract with the child.

3) In these instances how should the state deal with mothers who have lied about biological parentage? And should the state attempt to hunt down the biological fathers in order to force them to pay their fair share? Won't this kind of action on the part of the state contravene a big bunch of Constitutional Rights?

4) Should the state excuse a husband from his financial obligations with respect to child support when his wife has presented him with a baby that is proven to be not biologically his if the marriage break down occurs within the first year after the child was born? Before the poor sap has bonded with this kid, that is to say?

The way I figure it, paternity tests achieve two ends: they will prove who is not the father, and they will prove who is. The trick with proving who is the father is that even when the mother fingers a guy he must still be willing to submit to a paternity test. Forcing a man to do this under Constitutional law will be a bitch; it will be costly and time-consuming. It is the state/the taxpayer who will pick up the tab. And if that clown turns out to be a dead beat, well then, it will be the state/the people who will be paying the tab to raise the kiddy. In many ways it is much cheaper for the state/the people to maintain the status quo and the logic behind this would be: you were the one who married the cheating bitch and now you will have to pay.

[Kat817 19]

Well then going along with that thought process.....then my question would be...where do you draw the line?

It took me 3 tries to figure out just how to find the right man! So...I had my DD with husband #1, who remained in her life by my choice, and my assistance, without paying CS.

Then I married the biggest mistake of my life---and yes for awhile he did help support myself and my DD. So when I divorced him (with good cause), should he have been able to claim that he married me with a child, and now he wants a continued relationship with that child, whether she be his biologically or not?

There have to be some sort of guidelines! And paternity is one of those guidelines in my opinion.

I am not trying to say to hell with the kids----I am saying---if the state or government in general is going to make a man pay for a child proven not to be biologically his, they should make it a legal adoption, so the man has equal rights to that child for visitation, and custody if he chooses. He should be allowed to be more than an open wallet!

Kat