Anyone Else fear That Hillary Has No Chance?

[green 6]

green:

re: "The federal government really did drop the ball on Katrina."

granted.....however, just why do you discount the mess the locals in every level of government created prior to the Big Wind? Have you considered the strange disconnect between the governor AND the mayor of NO failing to follow their own emergency plans? Have you pondered the disappearance of the multi-decade BILLIONS that went to local and state agencies, and somehow has gone missing?

How do you account for all those buses underwater the Mayor refused to use?

I don't intend to beat this old horse again....Katrina proved on multiple levels that ALL and ANY level of government is incompetent, etc.

Further, against the laws of the state as well as the Federal constitution, in the face of rioters and common thieves, the PO-LICE confiscated at gun point, legally owned fire arms from law abiding citizens. And in spite of the court instructing (now, long after) them to return private property, the 'authorities' still have not done so....

The breakdown of civil order, the abandonment of their posts, the exposure of massive theft of public funds by all manner of local petty thugs and other bureaucrats, seems to be held out as a badge of distinction by many of those who were raised in that area.

None of the had anything to do with your unfavorite evilBushCo.

Your comments are a simplistic mischaracterization, on at least this point. You usually are more careful. Or do you truly hold the Federal government responsible?

You do recall the training exercise completed barely a week prior to Katrina? All the steps that were considered and organized by the locals? You know, the ones, dare I repeat myself....the Mayor and the Governor chose to not follow?.....

It seems that I am gonna have to do a really big mea culpa, Jack. I truly wasn't aware of all the foul-ups and straight-up corruption going on at the local and the state level in the Katrina tragedy. This certainly is horrible! And the outcome has been tragic for that region. Thanks for setting me straight on this. It is true that I am no fan of mini-BushCo but I do like to have my facts straight and I do like to play fair. Thanks, eh, sez Green.

[luluc 6]

Many Republicans like to comment that they are voting with their wallets. It is important to understand that there are both long term as well as short term benefits to various fiscal policies. Sometimes short term pain is best for long term gain.

Ah, Indeed so. By in large Republicans support the War on Terror, some Democrats view that as fiscal irresponsibility. Poor economy = Shrinkage of Investments = Wallet Weakened. I'm hopeful "whoever" becomes President, has the ability to remove ourselves from this War, and get can our Economy turned around.

[DerickM 1]

People want to make this presidential race about being black, a woman, or "other" (Republican). It's not. It's about who will make our nation stronger, rather than weaken it, regardless of their pigmentation or genitalia. It IS about scaring the "beejeebers" out of the rest of the world. Yes, that is exactly what makes us a strong country. I, for one, am an "extremist" American. And anyone who is anti-American is my enemy.

QFT!!!

*Joins Jack in the standing ovation*

[BJean 16]

So you're saying that the local government in New Orleans was corrupt and the people in New Orleans didn't do what they were supposed to so by damn they deserved to be treated shabbily? That's the mentality of some Americans that really shows our tough side. The side that other countries don't understand, and neither do I.

We entered WWII because we had been attacked and drawn into the war. The attack on the World Trade Center had nothing to do with Iraq. So why go attack them? I know it made you all feel better and you think that it makes us look strong and fearsome to other countries. But unfortunately aren't stronger. The war has weakened us. And we haven't earned respect from other countries, just the opposite. They know we are weakened and as Green pointed out, our dollar is not strong. Both things are problems that have been exacerbated by the war.

Have you seen Charlie Wilson's War? The way our government was working to try to deplete the resources of Russia at that time could be exactly what they're trying to do to us. Other countries sometimes learn more from our mistakes than we do. We certainly don't seem to have learned anything from Viet Nam.

Not attacking Iraq could never be seen as rolling over. But it can be seen as a serious mistake. Finding Osama Bin Laden and taking him out might have been seen as much more productive and intelligent. But those of you who like brute force for any reason just will never get it, I'm afraid.

The one thing this war may have accomplished is that we have put lots of Americans out there in the Middle East as targets to possibly keep the enemy too busy to attack us here again. That seems to have worked. But is it right or fair?

I'm very curious... what exactly in Barack Obama's past frightens you?

[BJean 16]

Ok, So I said not attacking Iraq could never be seen as rolling over and then went on to say it could be seen as a serious mistake, when what I meant to say is that attacking Iraq could be seen as a serious mistake. Oh you know what I meant! :eek: Editing used to be so easy! Sigh.

[~Trixie~ 0]

Katrina was a tragedy (to put it mildly) and exposed some despicable flaws in our government and also in some citizens, but why isn't anyone mentioning the personal accountability factor? Does anyone recall the news interviews from days BEFORE the storm where the people of New Orleans stubbornly stated that they weren't going to leave? As someone who has been at the heart of a life-threatening situation (9/11), I know that if there is devastation coming, you get the hell out of the situation. It's beyond common sense; it is instinctual.

I think that Katrina also exposed why we as citizens have no control over our own government. We have become so complacent with having our government run the show, that we expect them to constantly bail us out and babysit all of our actions. People really need to start taking responsibility for their own actions.

[~Trixie~ 0]

People say that the only reason we're still there is for oil. Great! That's a perfect reason for me. I use gasoline to get to work every day. And at over $3.00 a gallon, let's go! It's how I feed my family. I will never put the families of someone else (whether from this country or not) over mine.

Some postulate that we are indeed in Iraq for the oil, but for a different purpose. It's to keep the prices high in order to keep all of Bush's cronies' wallets fat.

Question for you: Is being able to drive to work (instead of taking the bus, carpooling, or riding a bike) really so important to you that you believe that a people's entire way of life should be destroyed?

It breaks my heart to know that Iraqis live in constant fear and TERROR. I know what that feels like just from one day. I couldn't imagine feeling that every single day like these people do. No human deserves that, and definitely not over a trivial resource that could easily be replaced by other forms of renewable power, just so that you can maintain your precious life of excess. That is so disgusting!

[DerickM 1]

...

It breaks my heart to know that Iraqis live in constant fear and TERROR. I know what that feels like just from one day. I couldn't imagine feeling that every single day like these people do. No human deserves that, and definitely not over a trivial resource that could easily be replaced by other forms of renewable power, just so that you can maintain your precious life of excess. That is so disgusting!

*begins playing worlds smallest violin*

[Jennie1976 1]

Question for you: Is being able to drive to work (instead of taking the bus, carpooling, or riding a bike) really so important to you that you believe that a people's entire way of life should be destroyed?

I live WAY too far away from everything, including grocery stores, post offices, etc. to take the bus or carpool or ride a bike.

It breaks my heart to know that Iraqis live in constant fear and TERROR. I know what that feels like just from one day. I couldn't imagine feeling that every single day like these people do. No human deserves that, and definitely not over a trivial resource that could easily be replaced by other forms of renewable power, just so that you can maintain your precious life of excess. That is so disgusting!

They live in constant fear and terror from terrorists. And if they want change, they they need to fight for it, like we are. I believe in humans more than I think you do. If I see that my children might have to live in fear everyday like you postulate, then I would be willing to die so that my children would have a better life. And no, the terrorists don't outnumber those you would live in fear. They can stand up and fight, just like we can. Yes, they might die, but there are worse things than death.

I don't believe a "level playing field" exists. There are people in the United States who live in fear everyday. And there are those who fight and rise above it. THOSE are people I respect. There are also people who lose their lives doing so. I respect THEM as well. And that's just here in the USA. I don't believe in punishing those who "have", just because they "have". As a Christian, I personally have a moral obligation; however, others may not, and, as an American, I don't have the right to force them.

[green 6]

Some postulate that we are indeed in Iraq for the oil, but for a different purpose. It's to keep the prices high in order to keep all of Bush's cronies' wallets fat.

Question for you: Is being able to drive to work (instead of taking the bus, carpooling, or riding a bike) really so important to you that you believe that a people's entire way of life should be destroyed?

It breaks my heart to know that Iraqis live in constant fear and TERROR. I know what that feels like just from one day. I couldn't imagine feeling that every single day like these people do. No human deserves that, and definitely not over a trivial resource that could easily be replaced by other forms of renewable power, just so that you can maintain your precious life of excess. That is so disgusting!

I like your post for a number of reasons. Let me explain....

It seems to me that Americans have moved very far away from their roots. Your nation was built on the backs of pioneers. We foreigners used to think of Americans as folks who have a tough, independent, good-humoured, generous, creative, "can do" spirit. This Yankee spirit sure was appreciated by folks like my parents, Europeans who were caught up in the horrors of the 2nd World War.

Yes, the price of fossil fuels is skyrocketing. This is a result of a number of factors. OPEC certainly has a big say in setting prices and the countries which make up OPEC are not inclined to cut the wealthy west any slack. Moreover, OPEC now has an attractive competitor for their product: this would be China.

It is also true that the trillions that this war - or whatever you want to call it - with Iraq is costing the American taxpayer has not resulted in a big break in fuel prices. It has, however, resulted in serious long term damage to your economy because you have now acquired international debt in order to pay for this war; this has caused the destabilisation of the Ameri-buck in the international money markets, and yet you are still paying big coin for a fill-up at the gas station.

The truth is that people can carpool, can take public transit, can ride bikes. The truth is that this generation of Americans (and Canadians too) have become very attached to all the mod cons. We are entirely unwilling to rough it. And we feel entitled to bitch about any perceived inconvenience which we may be forced to suffer.

And kudos to Trixie for commenting on the terror which she experienced on the day of 9/11 and then extrapolating how life must be on an on-going basis for those individuals who are trapped living in a war zone. My own mum was a Brit and lived in England throughout the 2nd World War. She lived with the terrors of night-time bombings, with strict food rations and with little heat throughout the winter months. Like all Brits, she also lived with the possibility of a successful invasion by the enemy. She lived with this terror throughout the duration of this war.

As for my dad, he was a Polish Jew. He survived the Holocaust only because he ran away from his family and Poland in 1937. He arrived in Britain as an illegal but once he was vetted as being a legitimate refugee he was permitted to join the British army. By the end of the war he was working in British Intelligence. He was valuable because he spoke a bunch of languages, including German. When he was in intelligence his job was to make friendly with Germans. This was sometimes very difficult for him. You see, he was aware that most of his family had been destroyed although he was not aware of the grotesque details.

Now, the events of 9/11 were truly terrifying for all of us who live on this continent. I found myself frozen in horror in front of my television. I have never personally experienced anything quite like this since the assassination of Kennedy. At the same time I think that we must realise that we who live on this side of the pond have led and continue to lead privileged lives compared to those who live in most parts of the world. We continued to live sheltered lives and we must consider ourselves lucky, I think.

Wars and terrorist activities have been and still are sadly more the norm for oh so many of our fellow human companions. And yep, these days ain't Happy Days for the Iraqis.

[green 6]

They live in constant fear and terror from terrorists. And if they want change, they they need to fight for it, like we are. I believe in humans more than I think you do. If I see that my children might have to live in fear everyday like you postulate, then I would be willing to die so that my children would have a better life. And no, the terrorists don't outnumber those you would live in fear. They can stand up and fight, just like we can. Yes, they might die, but there are worse things than death.

I don't believe a "level playing field" exists. There are people in the United States who live in fear everyday. And there are those who fight and rise above it. THOSE are people I respect. There are also people who lose their lives doing so. I respect THEM as well. And that's just here in the USA. I don't believe in punishing those who "have", just because they "have". As a Christian, I personally have a moral obligation; however, others may not, and, as an American, I don't have the right to force them.

I find your post interesting. Will you expand on your ideas for me. Referring to your first paragraph, I would like to know whom you feel live in constant fear of terrorists and how they might fight this. Are you referring to the Iraqis? If so, which Iraqis?

I am also curious to know more about those folks who live in the United States, the ones who live in constant fear. Who are these folks and what are they afraid of? You state that as a Christian you personally have a moral obligation; what is this moral obligation?

[green 6]

By the way, I don't believe that a level playing field exists. I don't believe that all men are born equal for we are not. I do believe that all men should be given an equal chance, that no one should be blocked only because of poverty, skin tone, gender, sexual orientation, religious/non-religious affiliation, and, well, you get the idea.

As for being born equal, duh, we are not! Some of us are brainier, healthier, taller, more athletic.... And most of us who are reading this are lucky enough to be born holding the right passports! We are Americans, Brits, Canucks, Australians: we are not Somalians, Nigerians, Iraqis, Kenyans, Rwandans...enuff said, eh.

[Jennie1976 1]

I find your post interesting. Will you expand on your ideas for me. Referring to your first paragraph, I would like to know whom you feel live in constant fear of terrorists and how they might fight this. Are you referring to the Iraqis? If so, which Iraqis?

I am also curious to know more about those folks who live in the United States, the ones who live in constant fear. Who are these folks and what are they afraid of? You state that as a Christian you personally have a moral obligation; what is this moral obligation?

Hi, the first paragraph was a quote from another poster...not from me.

In the US, people who live in gang-riddled neighborhoods live in constant fear (many of them being my students so I hear about this first-hand). I also have had several students who lived in constant fear in their own households (and several parents as well who have confided in me). Yes, these people exist. To answer the second part of your question, they live in fear of gang members, pimps, drug dealers, (I have a student that lives in a motel that offers rates by the hour with his mom and her current boyfriend), etc. In their own homes, usually they are afraid of boyfriends, fathers, etc. I had one mother afraid of her boyfriend whom I helped escape (unfortunately, she later went back).

My moral obligation is mine alone. I have had numerous people take refuge in my home. My husband and I have an agreement that we might just show up one day with a kid who needs to be in immediate foster care or an entire family (we've done both). My husband and I both are active with students with special needs as he is a special education teacher (we do a lot of volunteer work with special olympics and miracle league).

However, all of this, to me, is neither here nor there. These are my personal moral obligations, and I would like to do more. I would not advise anyone else to take strangers into their home, or anything else for that matter. As I've said, I personally have moral obligations. What anyone else does, or anyone else's idea of what my moral obligations should be doesn't really matter.

[green 6]

Thanks for answering my questions, Jennie.

[ELENATION 0]

re: "It's about who will make our nation stronger, rather than weaken it, regardless of their pigmentation or genitalia. It IS about scaring the "beejeebers" out of the rest of the world. Yes, that is exactly what makes us a strong country. I, for one, am an "extremist" American. And anyone who is anti-American is my enemy."

***STANDING OVATION!!!***

OK, I can't find who was the original post who quoted the above....but I join you Jack on the STANDING OVATION :rolleyes2: