Mindful eating?

[Neostarwcc 33]

So I have one more thing to pass before my surgery and that's being cleared by the nutritionist. My surgery was going to be scheduled for November but it's being postponed for a few weeks because the nutritionist failed me this morning because I haven't been practicing mindful eating and that apparently can completely reverse the effects of my surgery. I've been trying to practice mindful eating now for months but I honestly just don't get it and I've never gotten mindfulness in general. Being schizophrenic myself they've tried to teach me about mindfulness several times and I've never gotten it and it's never worked for me. So is this it and the end of my journey and I'll have to try to lose 150 pounds on my own (I weigh 440) or is it not as hopeless as I think? I've got two weeks to learn mindful eating before my next appointment with her so is there any tips from people who've struggled to learn mindful eating in the past?

[NickelChip 1,255]

Can you explain what you have to do to "pass" mindful eating? What is the nutritionist going to do to determine if you pass? This will definitely help in figuring out how to get you to the next step.

[Neostarwcc 33]

51 minutes ago, NickelChip said:

Can you explain what you have to do to "pass" mindful eating? What is the nutritionist going to do to determine if you pass? This will definitely help in figuring out how to get you to the next step.

Sure. She was concerned that I was eating too fast when I told her that I was eating my meals within like 5-10 minutes. She said that I can't do that with the surgery because not only will I be miserable with vomiting and diarrhea and nausea and the like but I likely would undo the gastric sleeve surgery. She said I should aim for eating my meals in 20-30 minutes preferably 30-40. This seems like an impossible goal for me especially when I see her again in just 2 weeks.

She also wants me to savor each bite and focus on the food or something like that. I don't really understand it to be completely honest with you. Mostly I just wanted to work on eating slower over the next two weeks so that when I do get the surgery I don't get sick and undo the surgery and "pass" with her so I can get the surgery. I can fake my way out of the mindfulness part of it or just tell her that it won't work for me and if it's a crucial part of the surgery than maybe bariatric surgery isn't the right option for me.

Edited October 30 by Neostarwcc

[NickelChip 1,255]

Okay, first, once you have the surgery you will not physically be able to eat that fast without throwing up and/or being miserable with pain. So you'll learn real quick to slow down when the time comes. Trust me.

In the meantime, here is what you do to practice and start training yourself. First, if you can, make a commitment to only eat from a real plate while sitting at an actual table for the next two weeks. No eating standing up in the kitchen with two minutes to go before you have to leave or grabbing a handful of something from the pantry as you walk past. Second, get yourself a timer. It can be a kitchen one, or one of those little sand ones that go for a minute, or just the timer on your phone. Whatever works.

When you sit down to eat, take a small bite of food. This means something about the size of your thumbnail, or even half that size. Set the timer for one minute. Put your fork and knife down. Chew. Keep chewing. Chew more than you have ever chewed before in your life. Your food will be like paste. You should feel no lumps in your mouth. At this point, swallow. If there is time left on your timer, sit and wait. Only when the timer goes off do you pick up the fork for another bite. Before you take that bite, ask yourself if you feel like you need another bite. Presurgery, your answer is probably going to be yes. But post surgery, this is a point where you might start to think wait, I feel pretty satisfied. This is when you want to stop eating, because with a limited capacity, you will fill up really fast and might overshoot and feel ill.

If that's all you do, you will be fine. If you want to be more mindful, ask yourself some questions as you eat. Maybe ask what you like about this food and think about that. Think about the texture and taste. Think about how your body is responding to eating. Do you feel tense? Are you relaxed? Are you feeling any emotions as you start eating, and do those emotions shift as you eat? Use some of your time between bites to write down some observations.

You don't really have to do all of that, but on the other hand, you might be surprised by what you learn if you do.

Also, I will say that I struggled a lot with this presurgery but the slow eating is second nature now. When I forget, I don't feel well, so I have a lot of incentive to slow down. You will too! Just do what you can to practice now so your nutritionist is happy with your progress. I will almost guarantee if you keep a notebook for the next week or two with what you ate and when, how long it took from start to finish, and some reflections on the food and how your body was feeling while you ate, you will pass with flying colors.

[Neostarwcc 33]

Ok on

17 hours ago, NickelChip said:

Okay, first, once you have the surgery you will not physically be able to eat that fast without throwing up and/or being miserable with pain. So you'll learn real quick to slow down when the time comes. Trust me.

In the meantime, here is what you do to practice and start training yourself. First, if you can, make a commitment to only eat from a real plate while sitting at an actual table for the next two weeks. No eating standing up in the kitchen with two minutes to go before you have to leave or grabbing a handful of something from the pantry as you walk past. Second, get yourself a timer. It can be a kitchen one, or one of those little sand ones that go for a minute, or just the timer on your phone. Whatever works.

When you sit down to eat, take a small bite of food. This means something about the size of your thumbnail, or even half that size. Set the timer for one minute. Put your fork and knife down. Chew. Keep chewing. Chew more than you have ever chewed before in your life. Your food will be like paste. You should feel no lumps in your mouth. At this point, swallow. If there is time left on your timer, sit and wait. Only when the timer goes off do you pick up the fork for another bite. Before you take that bite, ask yourself if you feel like you need another bite. Presurgery, your answer is probably going to be yes. But post surgery, this is a point where you might start to think wait, I feel pretty satisfied. This is when you want to stop eating, because with a limited capacity, you will fill up really fast and might overshoot and feel ill.

If that's all you do, you will be fine. If you want to be more mindful, ask yourself some questions as you eat. Maybe ask what you like about this food and think about that. Think about the texture and taste. Think about how your body is responding to eating. Do you feel tense? Are you relaxed? Are you feeling any emotions as you start eating, and do those emotions shift as you eat? Use some of your time between bites to write down some observations.

You don't really have to do all of that, but on the other hand, you might be surprised by what you learn if you do.

Also, I will say that I struggled a lot with this presurgery but the slow eating is second nature now. When I forget, I don't feel well, so I have a lot of incentive to slow down. You will too! Just do what you can to practice now so your nutritionist is happy with your progress. I will almost guarantee if you keep a notebook for the next week or two with what you ate and when, how long it took from start to finish, and some reflections on the food and how your body was feeling while you ate, you will pass with flying colors.

Ok on the pamphlet she gave me it says chew for 22. It doesn't mention anything else like whether it means chew for 22 seconds or 22 bites it just says chew for 22. Your 1 minute seems a little excessive so I might just go for 22 bites which should last for longer than 22 seconds anyway. 22 bites should take 35-40 seconds which should completely puree the food. One thing that I found helpful last night because my wife works and isn't always around to have a conversation with is turning on the TV and watching it while I'm eating. I know the doctors tell you not to do that but I find it REALLY helpful in eating slower because it's a distraction and it helps me eat slower and make my meals last longer. I tend to not eat more like most people do when watching TV so it really, really helps.

My question is though when my meals are a lot smaller how am I possibly supposed to make them last for 20-30 minutes? I barely can make large meals last for 15-20 minutes. I did manage to eat a salad in 20 minutes yesterday while watching TV but it was a big snack sized salad. When my food is basically the size of a golf ball how the heck is that supposed to last for 20-30 minutes? Even with being distracted by talking or watching tv?

[NickelChip 1,255]

3 minutes ago, Neostarwcc said:

Ok on

Ok on the pamphlet she gave me it says chew for 22. It doesn't mention anything else like whether it means chew for 22 seconds or 22 bites it just says chew for 22. Your 1 minute seems a little excessive so I might just go for 22 bites which should last for longer than 22 seconds anyway. 22 bites should take 35-40 seconds which should completely puree the food. One thing that I found helpful last night because my wife works and isn't always around to have a conversation with is turning on the TV and watching it while I'm eating. I know the doctors tell you not to do that but I find it REALLY helpful in eating slower because it's a distraction and it helps me eat slower and make my meals last longer. I tend to not eat more like most people do when watching TV so it really, really helps.

My question is though when my meals are a lot smaller how am I possibly supposed to make them last for 20-30 minutes? I barely can make large meals last for 15-20 minutes. I did manage to eat a salad in 20 minutes yesterday while watching TV but it was a big snack sized salad. When my food is basically the size of a golf ball how the heck is that supposed to last for 20-30 minutes? Even with being distracted by talking or watching tv?

Chewing for 22 times or 22 seconds is fine. But then wait at least that long between swallowing and taking the next bite. That's how you make your meal last 20-30 minutes. Very small bites, lots of chewing, and pausing between bites to let your fullness signals have a chance to catch up.

It's hard to explain how small your bites will need to be after surgery to remain comfortable and not make yourself sick early on. After surgery, I bought a set of cocktail forks and demitasse spoons. They are tiny, like something you would use for a doll. For the first three months, I ate with those. My bites were the size of a pea.

Picture your golf ball size meal. Mentally cut it into 20 pieces. Or literally get yourself a 3 oz meatball and actually divide it into 20 pieces. Right now, you don't have any restriction, so it will feel crazy to do this, but after surgery, you can consume one piece per minute and you will most likely feel great. Faster and you risk feeling bad, at least for the first many months.

I just made the mistake of eating about 1/2 cup of raw baby carrots too quickly because I was distracted by work, and I am filled with regret. And belly pain. I feel like I've gorged myself on Thanksgiving turkey and all the trimmings and gotten it stuck halfway down my throat. I now get to reflect for the next few hours about why that was a bad idea to not slow down. It's a learning process, even well after surgery.

[Neostarwcc 33]

Right now I'm taking normal sized bites and just trying to make my meals last 20-30 minutes that's a vast improvement. Even if I come into the nutritionist with taking smaller bites and taking 30 minutes she might pass me after all she only gave me 2 weeks to work on this and I'll likely have 3-4 weeks to work on it before my surgery because it will take time for my insurance to approve the surgery and for them to get everything setup and everything. I can work on taking pea sized bites then. I'm sure the nutritionist will bring that up to me when I see her in 2 weeks right now she has just said I have to take small bites and hasn't elaborated as much as you have.

[SleeveToBypass2023 2,637]

I 100% agree with everything @NickelChip said. I know it seems crazy to do the things she talked about, but I promise you, when you have the surgery you will be absolutely miserable if you don't get in the habit of doing at least several of the things she mentioned. Trying to learn on the fly after the surgery will be problematic.

[Arabesque 7,335]

@NickelChip is on totally on point. I cannot stress the importance of asking yourself do you need this next bite or do you just want this. If you just want it put your fork down. If you’re about to put that mouthful in your mouth out of habit, put the fork down. Even if your response is I don’t know put your fork down & wait. In a couple of minutes try again & if the answer yes, I need it take the bite. Of course you have to really consider the difference between wanting & needing.

I started practising this from my surgery (so 5,5yrs ago) & still do it. Been extremely helpful.

Slowing your eating is based on the fact it least. 20 minutes for the message to get through to your head that you’ve had enough. If you are a fast eating, eating mouthful after mouthful, by the time the signal you’ve had enough registers you’ve eaten way too much. Notice I say enough not full. Enough is the goal. Enough is what your body needs to function. Full or over full is usually the volume of food to make you feel good or better or happier or whatever.

Some hints & tips to incorporate which can help.

• Buy yourself some small cutlery. Baby forks and spoons, cocktail forks, sporks or similar. (I think almost everyone uses smaller cutlery after surgery but you could start now.) They will make your spoonful smaller and slow your eating.
• if you haven’t yet, get hold of some smaller bowls & plates. Will help to keep your portions the correct size and can make you think you’re eating more because the smaller plate is full. I used ramekins, tapas plates, side plates while losing & now use entree/appetiser plates (9in dia). So still no dinner plates for me.
• After putting food on your cutlery, push some off so the fork and spoon aren ‘t full.
• Try sending timelines for smaller portions of your meal. Like, I’ll take 10 minutes to eat a quarter of my meal. If you eat it before ten minutes, wait before starting the next quarter. Or, try cutting up your meat (depending on your meal) first. Count how many pieces and work out how often you can eat a piece. I still do this type of portioning. Right now I’m eating some crackers with a topping for lunch. I eat one cracker every ten minutes. Sometime I wait longer but never more quickly.
• If you are eating with others, put your cutlery down when they are talking and don’t take a bite until they have finished or someone adds to the conversation. You become a good listener & distracts you from eating. I live alone & didn’t like using a timer so I used to set other guideline. If watching tv, take a bite with an ad or a scene change or similar. If playing on line game like solitaire, play a game before taking a bite. If reading, take a bite after reading a certain number of pages.
• Between bites, put your cutlery down, and sit back from the table so you're not leaning on the table.

Sure others may have some tips as well.

All the best.

[NeonRaven8919 446]

I never got an advice on "mindful eating" until AFTER I was a week post-op. I had a total of 15 minutes with a therapist pre-op. I have had to go back to staying on liquids because I just can't stop eating too quickly when it's purees. Even yoghurt is too heavy. It's definitely better to get in the habit now. I still haven't mastered it.

[Chatterboxdea 166]

6 hours ago, NeonRaven8919 said:

I never got an advice on "mindful eating" until AFTER I was a week post-op. I had a total of 15 minutes with a therapist pre-op. I have had to go back to staying on liquids because I just can't stop eating too quickly when it's purees. Even yoghurt is too heavy. It's definitely better to get in the habit now. I still haven't mastered it.

Same. I'm not great at eating slowly even after surgery. It takes 20-30 minutes for me to eat, but its supposed to take more like 45. I enjoy playing a phone game or reading while I'm eating to slow me down. I will say I make much more of an effort to chew my food a lot more and this has helped me slow down a lot (it has also pretty much turned me off eating plain deli meat, because the texture gets too gross when over chewed). Some times I will even step away from the table/meal for a while and then come back if I am still hungry.

Just adding my 2 cents, but I think you have a lot of good information to help you @Neostarwcc I'm going to try to incorporate more of these myself.

[BabySpoons 616]

Most nutritionists hate hearing that you watch TV while practicing "mindful eating." I get it though.. I always watch TV when eating at home too. It is possible to do both for some but the NUTs don't agree.

And you can probably guess how I chose my name for this forum. I literally bought a baby spoon and used it. For a time. It really slows you down as opposed to using a big spoon (pre-op) that allows us to shovel the food in faster. I've known many overweight people who consume a meal so fast they don't even properly taste what they are eating. (finger pointing back at me)

Put the spoon down after each bite. Chew the 22 x's. Use a timer if needed. Don't drink with your meals. Taste what you are actually eating.

If you tell her you now actually try to pick out the different spices in each recipe. Garlic, chili powder, onion, etc. and do all the rest, you'll pass with flying colors. I would hesitate to bring up the TV watching though. LOL

GL

[ms.sss 15,669]

i too watch tv alot of the time while i'm eating at home.

oddly enough, i tend to eat more when i'm at a proper table (and sitting with others).

when i'm in front of the tv, i have a finite amount of food that i have with me, when its done, its done (if i finish it), when i'm at a table with others, there is a whole lotta other food going on, with more added as the time goes on at said table. and i'll keep taking bites as my stomach allows.

🤷🏻‍♀️

[Arabesque 7,335]

I think it’s because they think you’ll be so absorbed in what you’re watching you’ll just shovel the food in. It’s the reverse for me & get totally distracted from my eating by what I’m watching. 10 minutes can easily pass between bites. But if it doesn’t work for you best to avoid tv watching.

I’m like @ms.sss in that I too can eat more or eat more quickly when eating with others. I have to very consciously be aware of putting my cutlery down & sitting back between bites and giving my full attention to those around me.

[Neostarwcc 33]

So I'm finding doing this EXTREMELY difficult. I don't think I will EVER be able to take small enough bites and will EVER be able to make my meals small enough so i have decided against the surgery and have decided to try losing weight on my own. I have lost almost 20 pounds so far in the 3 months since I've started so I think I can lose the 150 pounds I want to lose eventually I've been losing about 1/4 pound every 3 weeks about lately but hey any weight loss is weight loss and I technically have all the time in the world the lose the 150 pounds I want to lose.