This is either going to be mildly entertaining, or very, very ugly.

[DerickM 1]

Sitting Bull's tribe declares independence - Telegraph

Descendants of Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse break away from US - Yahoo! News

I call Bullshit. No one lives in Wyoming.

but seriously,

Russell Means still lives? great news. I hope they get what they want. I hope we give it to them freely.

more than likely we will just send in the cowboys again...:eek:

[transformer 1]

No one should be too surprised by this latest development...all Native Americans were treated like total crap. Kind of makes me ashamed to be an American...

[Chris_NJ 9]

LOL Sounds like to much fire Water being drank over there !

I don't feel bad for something that dead people did 100 yrs ago. We are not the same people and will never be ashamed of who I am or where I come from.

[transformer 1]

I definitely see your point, Chris, because I know I didn't participate in forcing Native Americans onto reservations (neither did my ancestors).

Similarly, there's still a lot of blame going around over slavery as well (people asking for restitution, official apologies, etc.). No one in my family ever owned any slaves either (of course, I'm known in Virginia as a "come here" because I'm really one of those damn Yankees)! As an educator, I spend all day trying to get children from every walk of life, religion, race, etc. to reach the highest level of achievement they can which is the opposite of holding people back.

I guess the same can be said about gathering up Japanese-Americans into interment camps during WWII (or muslims during the current conflict). If there is evidence of wrongdoing and we need to protect ourselves, that's one thing. Deciding that an entire group of people is guilty without any evidence is another thing.

Thinking about these things makes me cringe because segregating people or treating them as property (even if the plantation owners thought it was an economically sound idea at the time) isn't how we should treat people. The human race is supposed to be above that thanks to our highly-developed brains that have the ability to reason.

Also, I think that Americans should be held to a higher standard because our country was founded on the belief that everyone is equal. How can anyone reconcile owning slaves and forcing people into camps or reservations with that? So much for highly-developed brains! When members of our country do things (or did things) that go against this basic belief, it does kind of embarrass me.

Embarrassed in an "oh-look-at-my-drunk-Uncle-Louie-puking-under-the-table-again-this-year" kind of way...:faint:

[DonHoll1 0]

I think you said it pretty well Transformer. Donna

[want_so_bad 0]

Sitting Bull's tribe declares independence - Telegraph

Descendants of Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse break away from US - Yahoo! News

I call Bullshit. No one lives in Wyoming. :rose:

I call BULLSHIT! Wyoming is a great place to live! :rose:

and there are some thing things I dont understand, perhaps someone can help me to...and i acknowlege my incredible lack of any serious knowledge on this subject, so go easy on me....why is it our (collectively) fault that some of these people make choices in their lives that lead them down their shitty roads to their shitty lives? yeah, i opened and gave you that beer! i made you have that gambling problem. like i encourage you to not make something of yourself.

what happened to your people was not right and it was horrible, but that was a long time ago. stop the self pity and make something of yourselves. make those ancestors you so readily spout off about proud!

i just dont understand why or how dwelling on the injustices of years past are helping your people to become better NOW!?

[kagoscuba 0]

I wonder what would happen if the US shut "the borders" on these lands and no longer allows importation of goods, dissallows "international" travel, shuts off all utilities, and shuts off all communication lines. I wonder how far this "we are not American anymore" mentaility will go. If they want to be independent, fine, but let's see how far they actually make it on their own. It's a publicity stunt.

[swstacey1977 0]

Transformer, I totally agree with what you said (ALL OF IT). I try very hard to teach my children morals , ethics and good values on a daily basis. It is hard when they read some of our Country's history and come home and ask mom, if this is not right then why did they do it back then? I LOVE AMERICA! I am very proud to be American but yes, I to am ashamed by what took place before i was born and even things that took place before my Great, Great grandparents were born.

[TheGh0st 9]

A number of years ago I attended a series of Oregon 'Save the Salmon' public forums. Among the various panel participants was one of the tribal leaders from the Warm Springs tribe....and after listening to various environmental, public agency, forest, Land Management, farmers reps, fisheries, etc etc....all putting in their increasingly labored rhetoric....

By treaty, the Indians get to hunt and fish a percentage of the yearly harvest. The Sport Fishery people were convinced Indians were 'stealing' fish!!!

The old chief had his turn. He spoke quietly and most elegantly.

His words were to the effect of "You are right. It is not working well. We signed YOUR treaties giving away much of OUR fish, OUR land, OUR waters, OUR forests....YOU have consistently broken YOUR word every time the wind changes direction.

"I'm all for scrapping the treaties. Abolish them. Now....get the

hell off OUR land"....

Hard to follow a class act like that....

Good one Jack (as usual)

If the Lakota can actually pull this off and stand on their own two feet as the independent nation that America claims to officially acknowledge them to be, then I say all the more power to them. I do not see this as them calling sour grapes over what has happened in the past near as much as I see this as them trying to take responsibility for their own future. I wish them nothing but the best.

And dare I say "H..E..Double Toothpicks, if Clinton (or possibly Obama) win I just might have to consider renouncing my own citizenship and joining them.":heh: