US Sanctioned Torture

[gadgetlady 4]

I've always found it a curious dichotomy that it's OK to kill someone you're at war with, but if you fail to kill them and just maim them or capture them without injury, you have to be nice to them.

[Maincat 14]

I personally don't worry about what others think about the US.

Says it all really.

[juliegeraci 7]

I agree with Chris NJ.

[anonemouse 1]

I prefer to think of the United States as morally superior to our enemy, in regards to how we treat our prisoners. I can't do that if we publically condone torture. To me, torture is torture, no matter if it's psychological torture or physical torture, whether it results in death or not.

[Chris_NJ 9]

Says it all really.

Please indulge us with your infinite wisdom.

[METALBAND 0]

Chris.....I am so with you! Instead of torture we could just be-head them on TV and all sit around and cheer like they do!!! I am sorry but we are at war, it seems that people forget. I just visited the 911 memorial and even I had forgotten (I did not think I had) but when you get to that hallowed ground and see all the pictures and the faces....its horrific all over again. It is sooo powerful to stand there and feel all of the strength of this nation....the good strength, the 30,000 volunteers who came to help and the people that got turned away because there were too many volunteers. The bucket brigades and the people who gave up their lives to try to help others.....that is what we are fighting for over there to keep this country safe from those people who hate us and want to break that spirit.

After 911 we saw what makes this country great and now we forget and want to punish our troops for doing their jobs!!

I am sorry...I need to stop! I am not a writer but I think you get my point!

[phyllisc 0]

I've always found it a curious dichotomy that it's OK to kill someone you're at war with, but if you fail to kill them and just maim them or capture them without injury, you have to be nice to them.

I am assuming you would be talking about armed soldiers that it is ok to kill in a war? Once you have them defensless and caged up it becomes nothing more than sadism and vicious imhumanity to futher inflict physical pain.

[phyllisc 0]

The world is a terrible place.

Yes, it is torture

The masterminds and aggressors in war should be tried as war criminals, as in nations that practice geniocide and other atrocities.

Torture shouldn't be sanction by any govt.

If it is information that is wanted. Give the prisioner a deadline to cough up the info, If they don't, or the information pans out to be false, try them, find them guilty, kill them. This would not be applied to legitimate prisioners of war, just terriorists.

As to the question of saving lives, I have mixed feelings on that. Because if it were someone attempting to or who had harmed a loved one of mine, I would have no problem making them suffer.

[kagoscuba 0]

A couple of quick points:

There is no war in Iraq or Afghanistan. There is an occupation. There is no such thing as a nebulous war, like "The War on Terrorism" or "The War on Drugs." Call it what it is. Taking proactive steps against items we do not like. I don't mind that. I don't even mind a lot of what we are doing, other than the fact it should have never been started...that's a different discussion. Calling it a war, however, pisses me off to no end considering my penchant for studying history. In addition, if we are truly going to continue down the idiotic road of "pre-emptive war" to meet our national goals, then please stop calling our defense budget by that name and start calling it the offense budget. It's just semantics, but since this administration likes semantics such as "enhanced interrogation techniques" over such succinct terms as "torture," then having an offense budget makes sense or even "Enhanced Democratic Thuggary Budget." Just because we are right doesn't make it right to impose our will. In their mind they are right too. We need to go back to "talk softly and carry a big stick" days. Let them talk smack all day long, but if someone attacks us then we obliterate them. Don't bomb, invade, and occupy. Obliterate. Sand makes nice glass.

[Cavegirl 0]

When you here TORTURE on the news and listen to the reporters talking about these thugs we have incarcerated, one would think that we are doing to these prisoners the same thing the viet-kong did to our soldiers, THINK about the miraculous country you live in when you here what these reporters are saying. Our soldiers are the most ELITE and caring group of kids and adults that represent the USA, they do not want these thugs coming to our soil and doing to us what the Taliban and Iraq do to their own people. Car bombs, suicide bombers, etc. That would be torture and that would mean that they had failed at their job. I have never talked to one American that says they would rather see car bombs and suicide bombing here rather than there. That is what we are trying to avoid. One thing clear, we did not start this so called war. It has been going on for centuries, we just got brought into this battle when some idiots decided the best thing to do was bomb USS Cole, Beirut, First Twin Towers bombing. Unfortunately we did not answer the call the right way then, but on 9-11 when those buildings fell they got our attention and we finally took action. If we don't keep at it we will not have any Baptist churches anymore. Only mosques, you think I'm kidding. Think about WW II when someone says the only reason the french aren't speaking German is because of the USA. We are at that place in time. When this thing first started going down I heard someone say that in time the muslim people would start killing fellow muslims, because they are not muslim enough. I did not believe it, until they started killing their own people in Iraq in the shopping areas blowing up schools because the people in those areas were trying to help their own people live a good life, and not live in the 5th century. I think some people believe that the people that we are so called TORTURING are soldiers like ours, not the case these people would like nothing more than to see the end of our way of life. Not that our way is perfect we certainly have our flaws. These people have no conscience, they don't care if they die or who they take with them women, children, men as far as they are concerned they have 72 virgins waiting for them on the other side. That is what makes us different we do have a conscience, we do care about human life, look at this thread you would rather see a person let go or just spend his time in jail, rather than get information that could possibly save 1 or 100 lives of innocent civilians whether they are American, Iraq, or soldiers of either country. If it takes a little persuasion to get the information out of them, so be it. You have to remember these people that we are dealing with are cowards, it has been proven on the battlefield. I would rather see the coward terrorist suffer a little, than to see one more car bomb go off in any country and kill more innocent people. So please don't think this TORTURE that you hear about on the news is actually torture, they make it sound soooo bad. We are a better country than that, we are trusting our military for our safety and they make good decisions. If America stays strong in this fight and doesn't turn into a bunch of bleeding hearts we will win the right way, or we will pray facing east 5 times a day.

[munchkin392 1]

This is an interesting thread. Although a purely fictional situation, my husband and I were talking about all the CIA special ops the other night when we were watching the Bourne Ultimatum. About whether it is really like it is in the movie. I tend to believe that this stuff occurs more than we would ever like to think about. I guess I am a bit of a consipiracy theorist, because I believe the US engages in many things that are against UN sanctions- for example, germ warfare. I'm sorry, but I don't believe we don't do it.

This is a touchy subject in real life for me-I am torn. On one hand, I would like to think that morally, I would object to torture in any situation. On the other hand, I have a little sister who is a Marine and could be deployed to Iraq at any time, my brother in law has been to Iraq twice, and my stepson will be deployed to Iraq shortly, so there is another part of me that says do whatever it takes to protect these soldiers and our country. And I also agree with the previous posts about 9-11. I remember waking up that morning and watching it on TV, and just being absolutely devastated by the horror of it all. And my first thought was "Go over and bomb the bastards till there is nothing left!"

And I think there are plenty of countries who will never like the US no matter what we do, so as another poster stated, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

How about this, what do you think of the operatives that are commiting these black ops? Do you think there has to be a little bit of sociopath in each of them, or are they simply trained to defend our country?

[Cavegirl 0]

Munchkin,

If you like to read I would suggest you read Vince Flynn books.

Vince Flynn Or Brad Thor Brad Thor

If you like things like Bourne Ultimatum and Black ops and such you will love those books. I am not much of a reader and never have been. But I just happenned to be doing alot of flying lately and I have read everyone of their books they go in order so you have to get them in succesion. But you will definitely get a better understanding of how it operates. Brad Thor is a very accomplished individual, he actually sits in on and participates with the pentagon on War Games: Basically acting out live scenarios of what could possibly happen on our soil having to do with terrorist groups. He says and I have heard other people talk about it also, the next target for these jerk terrorists is taking over schools and killing children, they think that will break our spirit, THEY OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW US VERY WELL. Hopefully we can keep torturing the bad guys and never have to worry about that. Enjoy the books I know I did!!!!!!!

[munchkin392 1]

Thanks Cavegirl, I do love to read so I'll check them out. I'm always up for checking out a new author! It's nice and cold and dreary in my neck of the woods, and I have a cast on my foot so I can't really work out too much, so what better time?

[Frisky1 0]

I'm tired of Americans being so quick to judge other Americans for doing what has to be done in times of War. Do you honestly believe these types of things weren't done before now? (only now we have "the media" to inform us of it) If this would've happened in the previous wars...We may be yelling "Mein Fuhrer!"

[DerickM 1]

Torturing a terrorist is unconstitutional? Probably, but is one innocent life worth it?

Torture is barbaric? letting innocents die becuase you worry about someones 'human rights' is moral cowardice.