'08 - Who do you want?

[BJean 16]

Ok, ok transformer... I get it already. You are really trying to get us to believe that you're not concerned about anything Bush has done because there's no chance that by voting for a conservative Republican again we might get a continuation of the past 7 years. And that you are just concerned about what Bill did because we're not actually presented with a vote for Hillary as much as we would be voting to reinstate the morally corrupt Bill Clinton. That's brilliant. Why didn't I think of that?

You guys are great. You can solve all of your own problems and you aren't concerned with anyone else's which means that voting for a Democrat would mean that you'd be trying to solve all the world's ills - with big government - higher taxes - right?

Less government is going to take care of everything, I get it. Like under the Republican administration that we've had. They gave us a practically insignificant tax cut at one point, so woo, hoo! The government has grown since they've been in control. We've spent billions on a rag tag ill-conceived war and huge sums on taking care of the men and women who have died because of that war. We have another trillion dollar deficit - like we had the last time we had a Republican president. And we're staring a very nasty recession down the barrel. But hey, voting Republican means less government and more of our own earnings in our pockets. It'll mean that we can focus more on our own personal problems and less on the country's (other people's) problems. Yep, and I have some nice ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.

[luluc 6]

Can I join this discussion late in the debate:rolleyes2:?

Disclaimer: Liberal New Yorker now Texan..

[BJean 16]

Are you a true Texan and pack a pistol? Or are you just a New Yorker, passin'? If you're a liberal, in any case, you will be quite welcome by me. Right now I'm way, way outnumbered. Not that I'm a liberal. Nuh uh, I'm just someone who always votes for the man, if he is a good person, has high morals, and is totally honest. Because we all know that only the super honest people who run for public office deserve our votes. Wait a minute isn't politician/honest an oxymoron?

[luluc 6]

Well, I married a true Texan, and after living on a ranch & working it for over a yr *been here 14yrs* ...I think I qualify HA! (ya..do have guns tho..yikes).... I am fundamentaly Liberal, I dont' vote party lines per se' however in reading a lot through this thread we put a LOT of pressure on the cadidates as far as "morality" goes. I think we discourage some truly talented / compassioned individuals from running - for what may hide in their closet. Lord only knows poking in mine, would hurt one upon opening.

I want the war OVER, the troops HOME, my bank account rolling like the 90's, and GOV't out of my A$$ on domestic issues. I could go on but I think that should start the ball rolling, Ya think:??

[BJean 16]

Jack I wish I weren't speaking tongue in cheek above. Alas, I haven't believed in the completely honest and above board poliltician in many years. However I do believe that there are people in elected positions who have good hearts and who actually do care about the country and about Americans. Nope, they're not perfect. But yes, they can sometimes still do good work on the issues I'm concerned about.

Sometimes you really do have to just vote for the better candidate even though they may not be the kind of person you want to bring home to mama.

It would be great if we were able to fix the system by getting rid of lobbyists and campaign contributions and trading votes in Congress. If you have a good alternative, bring it on. Unfortunately even if it were genius, Congress would have to vote it in, so here we are, in the very unlikely position that it will ever change.

P.S. I miss T.O.M. He used to add a lot to these discussions. I didn't always agree with him but he always had an interesting perspective.

P.S.S. To answer your question, no I haven't been voting for the past 50 years. I am not old enough to have been voting for the past 50 years. But thanks for the compliment.

[marjon9 6]

re: "Wait a minute isn't politician/honest an oxymoron?" Are we to understand then, you haven't been voting the past 50 years?

Oxen are dumb enough even when they are normal. The cognitive ability of an oxymoron must be quite minimal, indeed. Other than Bush, I can't think of another politician who truly deserves this characterization.

[transformer 1]

The number one requirement of any great leader is that they possess a strong moral compass. If they don't have that, it doesn't matter what any of their other policies are. Slimebuckets do not great leaders make!

I never said that any Republican or Democrat presently holding a political office, those who have formerly served, or that anyone currently running for public office actually possesses this all-important leadership quality. That's the whole problem with this election.

Some voters are actually stupid enough to vote for someone just because they are...___________ (fill in the blank with whatever quality you like--a woman, black, white, old, young, the same religion, from their home state, cute, ugly, graduates of the same college, etc.) instead of critically assessing their character and leadership qualities. Instead of blindly selecting someone just because of one of these "flimsy" reasons, I think that we should really consider whether or not the candidates would sell their own mother's dentures (or their soul, if you believe in such things) to win an election. Do they have strong principles or are they just another slime bucket who is just spouting off what they think you want to hear?

I want to be clear that I don't think that a person running for president can't have flaws. What I am saying is that any leader should be an ethical person (a synonym of ethical is moral). Ethical means "conforming to accepted standards; being consistent with agreed principles of correct moral conduct." If a leader is not committed to a strong set of principles that guide all decision-making, he or she is extremely vulnerable to becoming corrupt. Politicians are very, very good at "getting into bed" so to speak, with the highest bidder.

As Jack said, the equation "politician = honest" does not make sense and hasn't for a very long time. There are obviously ethical issues on both sides of the aisle--duh! That's the whole point behind my wanting a "different animal" to run for the presidency. Maybe it's time for everyone to stop being such "rabid" Republicans or Democrats and start paying attention to the leadership displayed by the people who are running for office. I don't know that I've actually seen any of the candidates demonstrate true leadership ability yet. I've just heard a whole lot of meaningless crap from all involved so far...

BTW--what do oxen (a cattle-like beast with horns or somebody who is regarded as unintelligent and clumsy, especially somebody with a large build) have to do with oxymorons (a phrase in which two words of contradictory meaning are used together for special effect, e.g. "wise fool" or "legal murder")? You lost me on that one, marjon! I don't get the joke! WAAH!

[marjon9 6]

BTW--what do oxen (a cattle-like beast with horns or somebody who is regarded as unintelligent and clumsy, especially somebody with a large build) have to do with oxymorons (a phrase in which two words of contradictory meaning are used together for special effect, e.g. "wise fool" or "legal murder")? You lost me on that one, marjon! I don't get the joke! WAAH! :biggrin:

Here is the definition from Websters:

Main Entry:

ox·y·mo·ron

Pronunciation:

ˌäk-sē-ˈmȯr-ˌän

Function:

noun

Inflected Form(s):

plural ox·y·mo·ra -ˈmȯr-ə

Etymology:

Late Greek oxymōron, from neuter of oxymōros pointedly foolish.

Date:

1657

: Oxen (singular ox) are cattle trained as draft animals. Often they are adult, castrated males. It has been said that “An ox is nothing more than a mature bovine with an ‘education.’” Those who cannot learn or who refuse to learn are termed “oxymorons.” The only modern political figure who deserves this characterization is George W. Bush.

— ox·y·mo·ron·ic -mə-ˈrä-nik, -mȯ- adjective

— ox·y·mo·ron·i·cal·ly -ni-k(ə-)lē adverb

[BJean 16]

I may be wrong, it may have come up previously, but I think I may have been the one who used the term "oxymoron" - just to let Jack off the hook a little.

Regarding your latest post, what's your point, Jack? Obviously if some politico does "good" (as I would interpret it) why would I be disappointed? I guess if they did something with which I didn't agree, I wouldn't consider it "good". Nobody can please all of the people all of the time. That's the trouble with campaigns, politicians try to please all of the people.

I find the term "rabid" pretty hilarious when referencing Democrats and Republicans. Those who think they are voting for "the man" always like to characterize people who call themselves Democrats or Republicans "rabid." Ha, ha, ha *with an hysterical lilt in her voice* It always makes me wonder just exactly how people can divorce the man from his politics?

[BJean 16]

luluc: You qualify as a Texan more than most Texans. You're no dude, dude! Jump in here with all fours!

[luluc 6]

luluc: You qualify as a Texan more than most Texans. You're no dude, dude! Jump in here with all fours!

Ha!..Well I do Love TX & it's my home. I must say the money spent on these campaigns is obscene to say the least, that and the billions spent on the war could sure be better utilized in MO.

I don't care for any of the Republican Candidates (Huckabee the least), and the Democrats ... eh, Not flipping out over them too much either. I'm leaning towards Clinton now with Obama a close 2nd....Edwards third. Yeah I like Edwards (I realize a LOT do not), it will be interesting to see if any of these individuals team up as a "pair" when the dust settles. Clinton / Obama 08' that wouldn't suck - Romney / Huckabee...scary!

[anonemouse 1]

Ha!..Well I do Love TX & it's my home. I must say the money spent on these campaigns is obscene to say the least, that and the billions spent on the war could sure be better utilized in MO.

I don't care for any of the Republican Candidates (Huckabee the least), and the Democrats ... eh, Not flipping out over them too much either. I'm leaning towards Clinton now with Obama a close 2nd....Edwards third. Yeah I like Edwards (I realize a LOT do not), it will be interesting to see if any of these individuals team up as a "pair" when the dust settles. Clinton / Obama 08' that wouldn't suck - Romney / Huckabee...scary!

Frankly, Huckabee seriously scares me. I think he'd be even worse than what we've got now, in terms of letting his religious beliefs influence his decisions. Don't get me wrong, I think he's probably a great pastor for the people that believe the way he does, but I don't think he'd be able to set aside his personal beliefs enough to act in the best interests of the nation as a whole.

I like all the Democratic nominees, so I really don't care which one gets nominated. Now, as for the Republican nominees.... Well, I seriously doubt that Romney would win, if nominated. There are way too many very conservative Christian Republicans who don't think that Mormons are Christians for him to win. I honestly think many of them would probably rather have a Christian Democrat in the President's office than a Mormon Republican (yes, you and I both know that Mormons are Christians, but still). Huckabee, like I said earlier, is way too conservative. After the last 8 years, I think moderate and liberal Republicans (if there are such creatures) will probably run screaming from him. Giuliani? Maybe, if the ultra-conservatives can get past the adultery/divorce/pro-life/flip-flopping thing. McCain probably has a better chance, but he'll still have problems from the moderate/liberal Republicans who think he's sold out to the ultra-conservatives.

[gadgetlady 4]

I think the repub ticket will end up Romney/Thompson.

[luluc 6]

I think the repub ticket will end up Romney/Thompson.

You could be right w/Thompson just now stepping down.

Lauren, I think Romney has a better shot than the rest in taking the republican nomination. I count Guiliani out for not campaigning anywhere other than FL, he shot himself in the foot and half of his staff is now working for free - out of money. McCain, too aligned with the current bumble head in office. Huckabee?? - just too out there *I'm not sure he is financially sound as is Romney at this point to sustain him into the Fall* My husband lived in AR while in college, and he was the local sheriff (Huckabee) he has a lot of history that has yet to make it to the public forum - his, IMO scary persona.

A little part me (no pun here), thinks the Democrats WANT Huckabee. He's easier to beat than say Romney., Not totaly convinced .. but interesting nonetheless.

[anonemouse 1]

I think the repub ticket will end up Romney/Thompson.

I would not be surprised in the least. Hey, if that happens, I'll be related by marriage to the possible future VP! *shudders in horror* (My SIL's cousin is married to Thompson's son.)