Big Ol' Hairy Religion vs. Athiest Debate

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I'm sure all the Catholics feel better now that we agree it's not Catholics you dislike it's Catholicism.

As an Athiest I feel no need to dislike any religion, I just don't believe in God. How people who do believe in God choose to worship is of little consequence to me.

I was raised Catholic and it affected my life for a number of years. If I want to comment on a concept, I will.

IOW, get over yourself.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

We do need some margaritas for this to continue. People may like to believe that the limited science we have uncovered is the be-all and end-all of truth, but that doesn't make it true either.

My definition of God is way different from the one you are talking about. I am reminded of a play that I thoroughly enjoyed years ago, called Steambath.

I believe God granted us free will, and we have choice in life. I don't believe God is a Puppet Master. If you don't believe in prayer, that's cool with me. But you won't change my beliefs with absolute arguments. They just don't work with me - we don't have that experience or wisdom.

And I see miracles every day - and my beliefs become stronger as a result. Not as a result of church doctrine, but my own experiences and observations.

Whoa... I'm not out to change anyone's beliefs. I'm looking to understand concepts.

We all have a path in this life and each path is different. What's right for me is not right for you, etc. If a Christian is going through a period of doubt and they are looking for links to good atheism sites, the LAST thing I will do is give it to them. I know how atheism sites are and you can't talk you way out of a conversation with an atheist that knows the bible through and through.

If they insist on links I'll give them links to other places where they have time to think it through such as Wicca sites, deist sites, etc. But never an atheist site. I'm not out to change the beliefs of anyone when it comes to religion. My thoughts are pretty clear on that one. You live your life, don't harm anyone, do whatever the heck you want. I'll do the same and we can live in harmony. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Chelle B 0]

I was raised Catholic and it affected my life for a number of years. If I want to comment on a concept, I will.

IOW, get over yourself.

I think I will understand Catholic teaching more after going through RCIA. From my DH's POV, it is all about guilt.

[Chelle B 0]

Whoa... I'm not out to change anyone's beliefs. I'm looking to understand concepts.

We all have a path in this life and each path is different. What's right for me is not right for you, etc. If a Christian is going through a period of doubt and they are looking for links to good atheism sites, the LAST thing I will do is give it to them. I know how atheism sites are and you can't talk you way out of a conversation with an atheist that knows the bible through and through.

If they insist on links I'll give them links to other places where they have time to think it through such as Wicca sites, deist sites, etc. But never an atheist site. I'm not out to change the beliefs of anyone when it comes to religion. My thoughts are pretty clear on that one. You live your life, don't harm anyone, do whatever the heck you want. I'll do the same and we can live in harmony. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hey, I'm just jealous that you can argue a point longer and harder than I will ever be able to. I tire out too easily.:notagree

[TommyO 5]

I can't believe you call yourself an athiest, it is clear you believe that you are the all knowing one, maybe it just pisses you off that everyones not praying to you.

KMAB

[Chelle B 0]

I can't believe you call yourself an athiest, it is clear you believe that you are the all knowing one, maybe it just pisses you off that everyones not praying to you.

KMAB

This landed under my posts - surely you aren't referring to me??? I am a believer....

[Titslereaux 1]

Oh my gosh, this thread is exhausting, in a really good way! I'm seriously blown away by the level of intelligence here. Nearly every post changes my mind, then the next changes it back. Maybe by the time the Grim Reaper knocks on my door I'll have it figured out. Wait... what or who is the Grim Reaper, and do I believe in him/it/her? (Sorry, tired & losing my fire.)

[Titslereaux 1]

"It is all about guilt."

I was raised on placing blame and instilling guilt. Just an coinkydinkle observation!

[TommyO 5]

Chelle, no this was not directed at you I was referring to Isabigass!!!!!

[Titslereaux 1]

Chelle, no this was not directed at you I was referring to Isabigass!!!!!

TommyO, that made my night. Peace out!

[joe7777 1]

Rob...

How long have you been an atheist?

I've been atheist since about 1 year-1 and a half years. I was raised roman catholic but after i was about 13 we kind of stopped going to church (I always HATED church). So from then on religion was not a part of my life.

*sidenote* I was a tricky kid for the priests, I would ask questions about dinosaurs and Adam and Eve...I was really into science and dinosaurs, and it didn't compute to me that there could be dinosaurs, which i knew was scientific fact and they were much older, came before humans, yet the bible never mentioned them. (and to this day it's funny because some people 'young earth creationists' STILL believe dinosaurs are fake or they invent some other thing to discredit radiometric dating...either way.) But yeah, good thing they didn't make the propaganda they make now, because they might've gotten me with that BS...have you ever seen those clips on youtube where they basically say evolution is a joke, we come from goo and that's impossible...total garbage. Yeah, so i've always had that rational side to me. I was always weary of the supernatural, so i guess i had a skeptic spirit.

So i would say from age 15-16 on i would classify myself now that i was agnostic...but the church still had some of its teachings in me...But now i look back and i think the only reason i was like that is because it almost would've been a shame to turn your back on your religion. But now, i realise, at heart, i was really agnostic. And it's been about a year- a year and a half i can come out and say it, i'm atheist. Even Anti-theist to some degree (a generally anti-religious belief rather than an exclusively opposition to belief in deities). I 've been really interested in the subject. It's fascinating to me. I read Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennet...etc. And I watch some of their lectures on youtube.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I've been atheist since about 1 year-1 and a half years. I was raised roman catholic but after i was about 13 we kind of stopped going to church (I always HATED church). So from then on religion was not a part of my life.

*sidenote* I was a tricky kid for the priests, I would ask questions about dinosaurs and Adam and Eve...I was really into science and dinosaurs, and it didn't compute to me that there could be dinosaurs, which i knew was scientific fact and they were much older, came before humans, yet the bible never mentioned them. (and to this day it's funny because some people 'young earth creationists' STILL believe dinosaurs are fake or they invent some other thing to discredit radiometric dating...either way.) But yeah, good thing they didn't make the propaganda they make now, because they might've gotten me with that BS...have you ever seen those clips on youtube where they basically say evolution is a joke, we come from goo and that's impossible...total garbage. Yeah, so i've always had that rational side to me. I was always weary of the supernatural, so i guess i had a skeptic spirit.

So i would say from age 15-16 on i would classify myself now that i was agnostic...but the church still had some of its teachings in me...But now i look back and i think the only reason i was like that is because it almost would've been a shame to turn your back on your religion. But now, i realise, at heart, i was really agnostic. And it's been about a year- a year and a half i can come out and say it, i'm atheist. Even Anti-theist to some degree (a generally anti-religious belief rather than an exclusively opposition to belief in deities). I 've been really interested in the subject. It's fascinating to me. I read Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennet...etc. And I watch some of their lectures on youtube.

I remember as a kid none of it making sense to me. I recall asking my Dad about this and he essentially used Pascal's Wager on me. It worked for a bit but then the doubts kept creeping in.

The more I began to study science the weaker my faith became so I went searching for a God I could buy into. I think I've been a half dozen religions! I even took all the classes and converted to Judaism but that didn't pan out either. I realized I couldn't force myself to believe.

Then after a garden variety of Christianity beliefs as well as Jewish beliefs I became a full blown New Age Twinkie. It was during that time that I realized that the mind games I was playing on myself just weren't working and I finally acknowledged and admitted to myself that I am an atheist. Worked for me, best realization I have ever come to. I see the world with a completely different perspective and life is good.

May I offer a bit of advice? It isn't ours to try and convince others their religion is wrong. It's one thing to ask questions and understand their perspectives but to prove their statements right or wrong really isn't wise. We each have to walk our own path. Fight like the dickens when laws are created that don't fit within the constitution or Bill of Rights. If your toes are stepped on, step back. But when it comes to personal belief that is individual and people have every right to believe or lack belief as they wish.

I think sometimes people of all ages have the atheism realization (for lack of a better phrase I just made that one up) and they are excited to finally have our truth. The truth that is right for us. We all tend to want to share the atheist version of the Word and I'm not sure it is really necessary. It's a fine line that we all cross here and there when debating. I will stop and think about what I am writing and if I realize it is to prove someone wrong or change their beliefs, I stop. If it is to understand why they think as they do I keep writing.

But that's just my opinion, yours may differ a great deal.

[steph_co 9]

Love you post! Great words, I agree with much of it.

I believe the phrase you are looking for in the 3rd paragraph is "Pascal's Wager."

Yes, yes! That is exactly it. I did so much research in such a short amount of time, some of it blends together. LOL

Pascal's Wager - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia For anybody interested. Upon reading this, I chose to no longer live in my fear with "what if I burn in hell?" I say forget it. If God gave me a rational, reasoning brain and didn't expect me to use it, then I'd rather he sent me to hell. That is no God of mine.

And I found this interesting, as well: Pascal's Wager

How should you bet? Regardless of any evidence for or against the existence of God, Pascal argued that failure to accept God's existence risks losing everything with no payoff on any count. The best bet, then, is to accept the existence of God. There have been several objections to the wager: that a person cannot simply will himself to believe something that is evidently false to him; that the wager would apply as much to belief in the wrong God as it would to disbelief in all gods, leaving the the believer in any particular god in the same situation as the atheist or agnostic; that God would not reward belief in him based solely on hedging one's bets; and so on.

[gadgetlady 4]

*sidenote* I was a tricky kid for the priests, I would ask questions about dinosaurs and Adam and Eve...I was really into science and dinosaurs, and it didn't compute to me that there could be dinosaurs, which i knew was scientific fact and they were much older, came before humans, yet the bible never mentioned them.

LOL! The reason "dinosaurs" are never mentioned in the Bible is because the word "dinosaur" wasn't coined until the 1840's. The Bible does, however, mention the Behemoth, Leviathan, sea dragons, and flying serpents.

The description of the Behemoth in Job 40 is particularly reminiscent of a dinosaur.

Curiously, in history we find old cave drawings that depict humans and dinosaur-like creatures together. Certainly these cave dwellers didn't have access to the modern reconstruction of dinosaur bones found in museums around the world.

(and to this day it's funny because some people 'young earth creationists' STILL believe dinosaurs are fake or they invent some other thing to discredit radiometric dating...either way.)

I don't know from where you get your information, but I've never heard of a young earth creationist who believes dinosaurs are fake. Credible scientists do, however, question long-term radiometric dating. For more information, go to Doesn’t Carbon-14 Dating Disprove the Bible? - Answers in Genesis. It's very technical and might be a bit boring for a non-scientist, but there are plenty of other articles I can provide if you'd like.

[smatyas 0]

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

Sorry. Just had to.