Big Ol' Hairy Religion vs. Athiest Debate

[anonemouse 1]

What about Creation Scientists who are PhD's and the like? Should we not listen to them simply because we disagree with their premise? What about scientists who used to believe in evolution and don't any more?

I think you have to look at what's accepted by the mainstream establishment, to be honest. Are those Creation scientists picking and choosing what their evidence is? Are they using mainstream definitions for that evidence or are they twisting the definition out of mainstream use? The fact is, many creation scientists have degrees in religion or theology, not true science. And many of the ones that DO have science degrees don't have degrees in biology or evolutionary ecology. And honestly? A physicist telling me, "Oh, biologists are wrong, wrong, wrong!" doesn't hold a lot of Water, IMO. A tiny, teensy-weensy number of scientists (biologists) are creationists, when compared to the number of biologists that believe in evolution. And what are they basing their belief on? Their personal religious beliefs or actual evidence?

[anonemouse 1]

One of the reasons Bill Gates was so successful with Microsoft was that he chose not to staff his company with techies. For example, Nathan Myrvold, former Microsoft CTO, was a Master Chef. Gates looked for incredible thinkers - and the interview process often lasted 8 hours. Anyone who displayed a closed mind about anything was not considered for a job. I worked there in the mid 90's and loved it. Arguments happened all the time, but you rarely saw anyone try to cut people off. If you couldn't see the other side of an argument, then how could you make yours airtight? We often had to take the opposing view in a discussion to move on - great tactic. A good book to read is "How Would You Move Mount Fuji?: Microsoft's Cult of the Puzzle -- How the World's Smartest Companies Select the Most Creative Thinkers".

It would make for a really interesting discussion if we each took the other viewpoint and really went to bat on it. Over margaritas of course (can you tell it's been months since I had one?).

And nothing in life is really irrelevant, IMHO. Amazing ideas come from the most unexpected sources.

Yes, but Microsoft was trying to design a consumer-friendly product. Scientists really don't care whether the rest of the world believes their theories or not, all they care about is the research and the process of learning. As such, they should be the only ones defining their terminology. It really doesn't matter to me whether someone believes in evolution or creationism. But a creationist better not take MY words and terminology, change the definition, and then claim that the evidence I have doesn't meet their changed definition.

[Chelle B 0]

Yes, but Microsoft was trying to design a consumer-friendly product. Scientists really don't care whether the rest of the world believes their theories or not, all they care about is the research and the process of learning. As such, they should be the only ones defining their terminology. It really doesn't matter to me whether someone believes in evolution or creationism. But a creationist better not take MY words and terminology, change the definition, and then claim that the evidence I have doesn't meet their changed definition.

Actually Gates was always trying to push the envelope on technology more than just selling a product. It was many years before MS became customer focused.

Not even the best trained scientist is infallible, and we have enough variance in most tests to make multiple arguments as to the validity of them. Not to push, but are you sure it doesn't matter to you what someone believes? :heh:

[anonemouse 1]

Actually Gates was always trying to push the envelope on technology more than just selling a product. It was many years before MS became customer focused.

Not even the best trained scientist is infallible, and we have enough variance in most tests to make multiple arguments as to the validity of them. Not to push, but are you sure it doesn't matter to you what someone believes? :heh:

Of course, science and scientists aren't infallible. But they measure the success/failure of their experiments by the standards of science. Those standards are always changing, and hypotheses and theories fall by the way-side every day. That's the point of science. We TRY to prove ourselves wrong.

And yes, I'm sure that I don't care whether someone believes in science. But I do care WHY they do or don't believe. If they are using a bastardization of scientific theory to support their disbelief, I'll definitely challenge them to defend their stance. If someone is going to use so-called scientific theory to support their stance, they should use REAL scientific theory, not a bastardization of it. If someone wants to say, "this is what I believe, and I believe it because I believe it," that's perfectly reasonable to me. If someone, on the other hand, says, "this is what I believe, and I believe it because I don't think the scientific evidence fits the warped definition I have of 'evidence,'" I don't really think their opinions hold Water.< /p>

[joe7777 1]

What about Creation Scientists who are PhD's and the like? Should we not listen to them simply because we disagree with their premise? What about scientists who used to believe in evolution and don't any more?

*SARCASM*******

Who? Geniuses like Behe and Hovind???

**END SARCASM**

Mainstream science believes in evolution, the big bang, a non earth-centric universe....all stuff religion seems to disagree with.

[joe7777 1]

Isn't the test of science that it's repeatable under controlled conditions?

Yes and you forgot a key factor of what is scientific, it is FALSIFIABLE!

Also, do you actually understand what a theory is...it feels like creation science debunking 101. You're throwing the OLDEST garbage my way

Ex: Theory is not fact, No transitional species, Radiometric dating is invalid....

I don't even want to waste my breath (e-breath) on this, you are so far in the closet of denial.

[Titslereaux 1]

Okay, in order to cool things down a bit, I only have one word to say:

MORMONS

[Titslereaux 1]

Tick tock.. I wonder what will happen now!

[anonemouse 1]

They don't bother me at all. My old roommate converted to LDS to be with her boyfriend (who she subsequently married and then divorced - the day before the 1st anniversary). I mean, I don't get the religion (hell, I don't get ANY religion), but they're generally better than a lot of folks. They usually leave you alone when asked (individual ones do, anyway), which is more than I can say about the Southern Baptists in my area. My roomie and her boyfriend/hubby/ex/whatever were really, really tolerant about my Atheism, to the point of honestly wanting to know more about what I believed and why I believed it. Never tried to convert me once, just honest conversation.

EDITED TO ADD: I've heard many people of other faiths (usually other Christians) call the LDS a cult, but hey, from my POV, they aren't any more or less cult-like than any other religion.

[ELENATION 0]

Okay, in order to cool things down a bit, I only have one word to say:

MORMONS

Did you start this thread to get answers to your questions, because you actually have an interest on the topics or just to create problems among people here? it seems like you are enjoying it in not such healthy way...

mormons? mormons what? what about mormons? ;)what's your point? I will clarify that I'm not one, but is your agenda now to try to get mormons to join the fight?

I've said it before, I just don't trust you.... and sorry if you don't like my post... but I felt like saying this....

[ELENATION 0]

Okay, in order to cool things down a bit, I only have one word to say:

MORMONS

Did you start this thread to get answers to your questions, because you actually have an interest on the topics or just to create problems among people here? it seems like you are enjoying it in not such healthy way...

mormons? mormons what? what about mormons? what's your point? I will clarify that I'm not one, but is your agenda now to try to get mormons to join the fight?

I've said it before, I just don't trust you.... and sorry if you don't like my post... but I felt like saying this....:faint:

[gadgetlady 4]

*SARCASM*******

Who? Geniuses like Behe and Hovind???

**END SARCASM**

There are plenty of degreed scientists who disagree with evolution. You can be as sarcastic as you'd like; they exist.

[gadgetlady 4]

I don't even want to waste my breath (e-breath) on this, you are so far in the closet of denial.

Right back at 'cha, buddy.

[Titslereaux 1]

Did you start this thread to get answers to your questions, because you actually have an interest on the topics or just to create problems among people here? it seems like you are enjoying it in not such healthy way...

mormons? mormons what? what about mormons? what's your point? I will clarify that I'm not one, but is your agenda now to try to get mormons to join the fight?

I've said it before, I just don't trust you.... and sorry if you don't like my post... but I felt like saying this....:faint:

Elena, you read one word and automatically assumed I'm enjoying this in a not so healthy way? Stop reading between lines that don't exist. This is my favorite thread based on the level of intelligence and terrifically variant opinions but it was getting too heated so I diverted the topic. You don't have to be here if it's upsetting.

[ELENATION 0]

Elena, you read one word and automatically assumed I'm enjoying this in a not so healthy way? Stop reading between lines that don't exist. This is my favorite thread based on the level of intelligence and terrifically variant opinions but it was getting too heated so I diverted the topic. You don't have to be here if it's upsetting.

and I won't be here...I didn't assume anything, from all the posts/threads that I've read from you in the past including this one, I now have an opinion about you, based on everything I read...that's all, not reading between any lines... keep enjoing...