Why are people afraid of atheism?

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Wasa and Laurend....I had no idea that you each had so much emotion and pain tied up in your atheism. I can certainly see how somebody belittling your beliefs could be very hurtful to you. Unfortunately, there are insensitive jerks in every group (Christian and atheist). That's why I think everybody should be at least respectful to each other, even if our beliefs are polar opposites.

Well, I am not going to speak for Lauren but in my case it was never an issue of pain, more frustration. "If I don't believe I'm going to hell, but I can't believe because I don't believe so I'm going to hell."

Looking back now it was kinda funny but it wasn't funny at the time.

It also isn't a matter of belittling my beliefs, it's a matter that many assume atheists just don't want to live a good, solid, Christian lifestyle so they "choose" not to believe. That just isn't how it all works. One does not strive to be atheist, instead they realize and accept they are atheist and go on to have a very happy and fulfilling life. When someone says that we are idiots because of our lack of belief, they are often times basing this on the misguided notion that we choose to be atheist. It was a 20 year battle to accept my own atheism and to say that because I'm not Christian being called an idiot shouldn't bother me as much as it would a Christian... well, can you see how that is difficult to walk away from and pretend it wasn't written? An insult is an insult regardless of the faith or lack of faith, the slam is directed.

[MacMadame 81]

I don't think that's what she was trying to say, Mac. She takes insults that are specifically directed towards Christians, or God more personally because she is emotionally invested in that topic.

And (some) atheists take insults that are specifically directed towards atheists personally because they are emotionally invested in the topic.

See the nice parallelism there. :party:

See, if that lady had called me a "haole" and then insisted it meant nothing.....fine by me. But it bothered you because you had some investment there, correct? (I'm not familiar with the word, but in the context of your example, I'm assuming it's a racial slur).

It's what they call white people. It's supposed to just be "slang" and not a racial slur, but they only used it when the white person in question had something "lessor" about them. So really it mean "silly/nerdy/weird/stupid white person". Hence why it annoyed me.

Not that it has anything to do with atheism... but it does speak to intent and I think that relates to what we are discussing now. Which is how we are discussing the topic... how meta. :smile:

My approach here, by the way, is that this is the Rants and Raves section and not a support section. Therefore, I don't have to spend hours crafting my messages so that they say exactly what I mean and don't accidentally offend anyone. If people can't take it, they can get out of the kitchen. No one needs this section of the site to help them with their bands.

That's not to say that I would deliberately be a bitch about my POV, but it does mean that I might not temper my sarcasm.

But if you ask God to do something either he says no, or if he does it then he was going to do it anyway so what's the point? If he does change the great cosmic plan, then he doesn't know everything before it happens because prayer made him change his mind about the plan.

It depends on what you think God is. You are presenting him like a Being and some people believe that. Others think he's just a Force -- like Gravity -- in which case all the Omnipotent and All-Knowing stuff goes out the window and prayer is just about manipulating the force.

[plain 12]

And (some) atheists take insults that are specifically directed towards atheists personally because they are emotionally invested in the topic. quote]

Totally agree. That's precisely the point I was trying to make.

I also agree that in the R-n-R section, post however you like (whatever is your personal preferance). But if you want to participate in a real discussion, you sometimes have to play nice, IMO (If my answer to a post started out like "Of course not, you dumbass. Do you have any common sense at all?" it would be difficult to have a reasonable conversation. Not that I've seen any posts that were that harsh).

[Fanny Adams 7]

Fanny, do you have Narcolepsy? PM me if too personal and I've overstepped courtesy...

No I don't, although I have noticed signs of it in myself particularly on long drives, as well as signs of many other related disorders, such as excessive sleep twitching as I fall asleep, several instances of hypnogogia/sleep paralysis, and a few instances of epileptic fits brought on by extreme tiredness and general abuse of my body (several years ago). None of it occurs often enough or is debilitating enough to say that I "have" it, but I think there is some minor neurological disfunction in there somewhere.

Why do you ask?

[Fanny Adams 7]

Again, I can only speak for my church, but I believe that this is referring to receiving Christ and salvation. Although there have been some televangelists that claim that "God wants you to drive a caddy....all ya gotta do is pray (and send me a large gift offering)", I think most Christians get the gist of the verse.

I don't agree. While I am most definitely not a Christian, I did spend quite a bit of time in bible study and I believe it directly refers to the act of prayer, not the general receiving of salvation.

Matthew 21:22 (King James Version)

22And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

John 16 (King James Version)

23And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

24Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

And the promise that prayer WOULD grant what was asked, not some hidden will of God is contained here:

Matthew 7:7 (King James Version)

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

[MacMadame 81]

(If my answer to a post started out like "Of course not, you dumbass. Do you have any common sense at all?" it would be difficult to have a reasonable conversation. Not that I've seen any posts that were that harsh).

But calling someone a dumb ass is also against the rules.... which is probably why you haven't seen people be that harsh. :cry_smile:

[BJean 16]

Have any of you read anything about studies where they have tried to pinpoint differences in the brains of people who are very firmly religious vs. those who do not believe in God or a higher power?

They're also considering the possibility that when people "witness" aliens, it is actually caused by a phenomenon that occurs in some people's brains.

Am I the only one who has heard about these things?

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Have any of you read anything about studies where they have tried to pinpoint differences in the brains of people who are very firmly religious vs. those who do not believe in God or a higher power?

They're also considering the possibility that when people "witness" aliens, it is actually caused by a phenomenon that occurs in some people's brains.

Am I the only one who has heard about these things?

Yep, I've read studies about a specific center of the brain that seems more active in ultra religious vs. non religious. I didn't put a lot of stock in it at the time, I don't recall why. But it has been a long time ago.

I did read some interesting things about OOBEs. Years ago NASA did a study where they were able to change the electrical impulses in the brain and people had out of body experiences and near death experiences.

[brandyII 9]

Have any of you read anything about studies where they have tried to pinpoint differences in the brains of people who are very firmly religious vs. those who do not believe in God or a higher power?

They're also considering the possibility that when people "witness" aliens, it is actually caused by a phenomenon that occurs in some people's brains.

Am I the only one who has heard about these things?

I have never heard about that study with religious people, I know people who are depressed show differences. I don't know about aliens or alien abductions. I know there are some pretty credible people who have witnessed them and not only one at a time. But then I've also heard people who have been reqressed and found to have been sexually abused.

There's a lot we don't know about the brain so nothing would surprise me.

[BJean 16]

The mind is a powerful thang...

I really don't think we've begun to understand what our brains are capable of.

[plain 12]

No I don't, although I have noticed signs of it in myself particularly on long drives, as well as signs of many other related disorders, such as excessive sleep twitching as I fall asleep, several instances of hypnogogia/sleep paralysis, and a few instances of epileptic fits brought on by extreme tiredness and general abuse of my body (several years ago). None of it occurs often enough or is debilitating enough to say that I "have" it, but I think there is some minor neurological disfunction in there somewhere.

Why do you ask?

Hypnogogic hallucinations and sleep paralysis can be strongly indicitive of narcolepsy. I read a fascinating study one that compared historical accounts of "demon visitation and vexation" and "alien abduction" with symptoms and effects common to narcolepsy. They make a very strong case!!

Narcolepsy is (boiled down) a mal-coding of some brain Proteins. The symptoms can range from very severe to very mild. The most common symptom exhibited in all narcoleptics is fractured sleep, resulting in being frequently sleepy. Narco usually starts to manifest itself in the early to late 20's, but I've personally had a few narcoleptics in my lab that had no diagnosis until their early 60's!

So, didn't maen to pry, or even to hijack the thread, but it sounds like you've some things maybe you should get checked out?

[Fanny Adams 7]

There quite likely is something there but it is very mild and doesn't affect my functioning in any discernable way. Looking back through the years, I have realised that I do show many symptoms but I had always put it down to something else. It's only been recently that I have put all the differing symptoms together and seen that it probably does add up to "somthing" but I haven't heard that there's any particular treatment other than perhaps drug therapy, which has side effects that are far worse than the symptoms. I'll PM ya about it if you're interested...

[BJean 16]

Plain I sure didn't read your post as highjacking. I read it and it sounds like very interesting and potentially helpful info. It fits quite well with the direction this thread had moved which still relates to the original topic.

[Aphrodite1984 2]

I'm quite inclined to think that there is something that physiologically causes me to be a non-believer. Its just not in me. I think there must be some substance to that argument.

[*JASMINE* 1]

I read this story this morning and thought about this thread. A couple of pages back, you all were discussing what would qualify as a miracle. Would this one qualify? The doctors say they can't explain it.

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