Why are people afraid of atheism?

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

Gloucester- I don't think that there is any other way you can put it than what you already have. I've read your posts and feel it exactly describes the emotional aspect of believing and how it's different than the science aspect of not believing.

I think the fact that there isn't a deep rooted emotional belief, there is lack of understanding of what that feels like. Your example of being willing to die for the belief is perfect! How many atheists would die for their non belief? Ya'll might think dying for something or nothing is silly, but to believers, there's substance there.

The fact is, unless you have felt religion's effects, you will never "get it". If I ask you how salt tastes, your response is salty, are there other ways to describe it? Just like if someone asks how religious feelings (or the holy spirit or whatever you want to call it) feels, there aren't accurate words. It's the same thing. Just because you can't describe it or see it (although, I believe there is logic to believing) doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[BJean 16]

Fascinating thread! I've loved reading each and every post.

I can't personally identify with any one thought or belief that has been put forth, but I can tell you one thing I would fight to the death if someone forced me to believe in their particular definition of God.

And I believe that atheists would fight to the death if our country were absolutely taken over by any religious sect who subsequently passed laws that compelled non-believers to worship their God and follow their belief system.

Just as religious people would fight to the death to be able to practice their religion.

So that argument sure bothered me. On the other hand, I am very impressed with the quality of thought and passion that has been brought forth by this thread and I believe that it has been worthwhile.

[MacMadame 81]

I think this is precisely the anti-Christian sentiment that Gloucester was trying to pinpoint earlier.

But she didn't dis all Christians. She dissed people who believe that Adam lived at the time of the dinosaurs. So, really, she only dissed you.

It would seem to imply that you are specifically biased against fundamentalist Christians. It implies that you could debate a Jew or Muslim or Buddhist and have no problem treating them with respect, yet they all have their own ideas of God.

I don't know about her, but I do not respect anyone who can't reason logically and who believes things that are clearly contradicted by reason and science. It really doesn't matter what religion they have or if they have any at all. I don't think ignorance is worthy of respect. I don't think willful blindness to reality is worthy of respect. It requires a combination of those things to believe in a Young Earth. Hence, that belief is not worthy of respect.

Note that I didn't say that believing in God wasn't worthy of respect. It's possible to believe in God and still be a rational person who understands science and accepts it.

Of course, those with faulty reasoning and/or willful blindness may have other areas of their lives where I might be able to respect them. Maybe they are good parents or really good at their hobbies. Maybe they have done a fantastic job of being banded. But we aren't talking about those things right now.

Not my religion...just faith itself. To believe there is something greater than you, we're not just defending an idea or a science - we're defending our GOD. How can that not be more personal?

How can you continue to insist that you feel the insults more personally because you are a Christian when people are telling you that they feel them deeply too? You are telling other people what they feel. That is incredibly rude. Your thoughts on this particular subject remind me of a conversation I had when I lived in Hawaii and so was a minority.

Japanese Woman: You don't mind being called Haole, do you?

Me: Actually I do.

Japanese Woman: Oh no, you don't. We don't mean anything by it. You can't mind.

This is what you are doing... we couldn't possibly feel it more than you because your beliefs are more important is pretty much what you are saying. But how dare we say we don't think your beliefs are logical. That's insulting!

Of course, everyone has faith. Every belief system requires a leap of faith at the beginning, an acceptance of a certain premise that can't be proven. You can't prove that the world will always obey the laws of physics that we have worked out, just like you can't prove there is a God.

Whether or not the belief system is logical depends on whether or not those things that are the first premise are things that we know not to be true and/or whether or not the premises and conclusions that follow afterwards are logical. But that first premise -- in my case that the world obeys certain natural laws and always will -- is always something that can't be proven.

I do actually think you are taking things said in this thread more personally than some. But it has nothing to do with being a Christian because some of the people you are taking it more personally than are Christians. This has nothing to do with people insulting your God either. I've seen atheist do the exact same thing -- take things personally. It's just your own personal style. You need to own it instead of trying to claim it's somehow more justified than when non-Christians do it.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I would request that you not start with ignorant, irrational, or superstition. But, I'm sure you don't care what I think.

And, I have only been speaking for me. I don't like that Christians have been called names and dismissed as cracked-pot theories on this thread. (And, it has just become Christian vs Athiest - why? What are you so against Christians?)

I'm over sensitive that way, so be it. Some have a thicker hide than me, I get emotional over commercials, what can I say?

You're not saying, "I think God doesn't exist." You're saying, "I think God doesn't exist and you are silly, irrational and ignorant" for believing God does exist.

How can one not go on the defensive with broad statements like that?

I have never attacked your belief or non-belief, and I have apologized for dismissing it as being non-personal to you.

Obviously it is or you wouldn't keep coming back to this thread, correct?

I most certainly am NOT saying that Christians are ignorant, irrational, or silly! Why in the world are you taking things others have written and attributing them to me? Not only are you taking some comments out of context, you are blaming ME for them and I didn't make the comments.

I have not attacked you for your belief, no matter what anyone here writes you assume they are writing to you specifically. I have news for you, not only are you taking things out of context you are assuming you are the only poster here and every comment that is personal opinion is directly only at you.

So no, you haven't been correct about anything since you started posting in this thread. You have managed to turn it into your own private pity pot while justifying 100 different ways why you should do that.

People don't typically do any given behavior unless they are getting something out of it. What are you getting out of this? Is it the persecution complex? Sympathy? What the heck, you are targeting me for comments I never made. You know, we all throw a fit every now and again, that's how people are. I get that. I have let you blame me for every post written on this thread but now it comes to an end. I'm going to keep calling you on this each time you do it.

[brandyII 9]

Slam...or timeline?

Just being overly sensitive here...but I'm reading that as a slam.

Am I child because I believe?

Or are you saying that as soon as you became an adult you stopped believing?

I'm not going to pick sides and don't know if the thread was intended for those to pick sides and I would pick neither. But, I have noticed that you picked an avatar of the cartoon character "Maggie" from the Simpsons who has been an angry baby for the past 20 years and will never grow up. Are we to draw any conclusions from your choice:confused2:

[Gone4Now 4]

I'm not going to pick sides and don't know if the thread was intended for those to pick sides and I would pick neither. But, I have noticed that you picked an avatar of the cartoon character "Maggie" from the Simpsons who has been an angry baby for the past 20 years and will never grow up. Are we to draw any conclusions from your choice:confused2:

In all honesty, I wanted to know if that was an intended slam that Christians aren't grown up, or it was her timeline...as a child she believed, but turned adult and didn't.

I think that it was put-down. (Please, please, please correct me if I'm wrong - Was it really a timeline?)

I haven't put down anyone's beliefs here, and it's very obvious that some can debate civilly and others cannot. Others are just looking for a fight and that's evident of their posts throughout LBT - not just here.

My initial request was that people tame down the name calling. Again, some people aren't equipped to handle the converstion without that.

My avatar has nothing to do with whether or not I'm an adult, or capable of forming thoughts and opinions. I can be silly and light-hearted, and I can be serious.

If someone means offense and it's taken, how is that being overly sensitive?

Mac, you have it right - if someone calls something you believe in superstition and you say, "Hey, I mind that" and they tell you to get over it - same thing.

I took back what I said about my God not meaning as much as your science (my science, too - fyi) but no one here acknowledges that.

There is a difference between cramming something down someone's throat and simply denying something. I'm not here to do either - I just wanted the name calling to stop.

The whole discussion, though, has me thinking of the movie Contact...The rev. asks Ellie to prove she loved her dad.

Sometimes there is no proof - only a feeling. I guess you have to be sensitive to it.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I haven't put down anyone's beliefs here, and it's very obvious that some can debate civilly and others cannot. Others are just looking for a fight and that's evident of their posts throughout LBT - not just here.

My initial request was that people tame down the name calling. Again, some people aren't equipped to handle the converstion without that.

And then there are some (one) who picks a single poster and blames that person for every comment written in an entire thread.

Where is the logic in that? Where is the ability to be civil, to handle an adult conversation?

I have to tell you, I think Brandy is on to something with Maggie in your avatar.

[BJean 16]

Well any discussion that poses a question about fear and a personal belief is bound to wind up in an argument.

I understand how infuriating it is to be accused of saying stuff that you haven't said and I also know how irritating it is to be accused of directing your words at a specific participant when you haven't singled any one person out.

Some people are just very personally affected by what people post and that's why so much of the time any topic that is political and/or religious is going to digress into some kind of p$$ing on someone else's punkin' contest.

I am delighted that I, for once, am not at the center of it and catching the wrath of those who are holier than thou. But it's fun reading - ya'll keep it up. Wish we had a smiley icon with a halo so I could use it now. :thumbdown:

[luluc 6]

I am delighted that I, for once, am not at the center of it and catching the wrath of those who are holier than thou

ha! - but now you fire up another thread to catch s*** for stating such...that's karma if you believe..LOL

[brandyII 9]

I was just messing with you Glou, I love your angry Maggie, hey I was toothfairy Cartman for a while what does that say to the world about me?

I think religion is too personal a topic to discuss and why I avoid it but still enjoy reading all the discussions. It's been almost addictive and it's been going on forever, since the dinosaurs lived with Adam and I went through Twelve long years of Catholic schools and never once learned dinosaurs and Adam roamed the earth together so I'm a bit lost in that respect.

I am a "fallen" Catholic so I am open minded to many different philosophies and cultures and religions, maybe more objective than some and like to believe there's a God out there or something that takes care of us in a way but whether I truly believe that or not is still up for discussion. I've seen a lot of pain the Catholic Church has caused many people during it's history and currently with abusive priests. and don't really have much respect for that Church per se but still have Christian tendencies but probably would not be considered a "true Christian" by most evangelicals. I don't care so it doesn't matter.

Part of being Christian is to show the world you are Christian and not be a "doubting Thomas" or a Judas and to "spread the Word of the Lord" but not everyone wants it spread on them and find that offensive. Anyway don't take this too seriously no matter what you write it will be debated. I prefer to be open and objective to various points of view and do not condemn anyone for their beliefs unless it hurts other humans or animals and some plants, brandy II.

[Gone4Now 4]

, Funny thing, I know several Christians. I can usually categorize them into 2 broad groups: 1) The Christian that does believe in God and does not belittle me for not doing so, or 2) The angry Christian that jeers me because I do not beleive in God (I've gotten comments that my lack of religion make me a devil worshiper, evil, without morality, and how can I take proven science over superstition).

Wasa - I apologize. After reading back, I found what had stuck in my brain. I hadn't realized that you were twisting a previous post around when you said superstition.

The other reason why I was focusing on you is you seem to be the front-runner of the athiest argument. You've jumped in when I was replying to other people and even spoke demeaningly about me to TommyO. Why wouldn't you be the one I reply back to?

In addition, after reading back and reading the PMs I've received, I realize I'm not the only one sensitive here.

We say we believe and you say prove it.

We can't - it's how we feel.

Can we just let that go, or is there more that needs to be said?

[Gone4Now 4]

I was just messing with you Glou, I love your angry Maggie, hey I was toothfairy Cartman for a while what does that say to the world about me?

That you're a silly Great pumpkin believer, when clearly science has proven gourds cannot be a deity.

:thumbup:

[Gone4Now 4]

I have to tell you, I think Brandy is on to something with Maggie in your avatar.

"Where is the logic in that? Where is the ability to be civil, to handle an adult conversation?"

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

"Where is the logic in that? Where is the ability to be civil, to handle an adult conversation?"

Until your last post, I meant what I wrote. You have been blaming me for everything written on this thread. So at the time I wrote it, I meant it.

[BJean 16]

luluc: you're a real thorough reader. But mine was only a post in a thread, not a new thread, I think. Am I right or have I always been wrong about what a thread is? Help!