Why are people afraid of atheism?

[I_Said_NO 1]

In general, if people don't agree with the views included in this movie, they shouldn't go see it, not hold protests and get all crazed about it.

Protests are a good thing. It is what makes America great! Freedom of speech.

And regarding the topic, I'm not afraid of atheism, but perhaps you have misinterpreted their concern for anger. It would be selfish and go against all religions who believe in God, Yahweh, Jehovah, etc, to not include or try to persuade someone to consider a higher power. Some people are rather passionate especially since hell is a scary place and eternity is a long time.

So if they come across as angry, just think of it as passion and let it go. But if you feel compelled to know more, then just ask. :blushing:

Are all atheists Darwinists? Just curious.

[plain 12]

I remember the fuss over The Golden Compass. I confess, I wouldn't want my children to see it. It's not that I fear that the movie would make them question their belief (I think it is the duty of all Christians to question the faith. Belief without question leads to a very weak faith indeed, IMO). Rather, it's that I find the concept blasphemous (by the end of the series, God is shown to be a liar, feeble, and senile....He's killed) and my kids are too young right now. Once you see something, you can't unsee it. I have absolutely no problem with the Harry Potter series.

Prayer in school. I totally agree that prayer shouldn't be forced on anybody. What I don't understand is how anybody could object to a moment of silence used to pray (to God of choice), meditate, or just reflect on whatevah. What's the harm in that?

I do think the ACLU has a bias against the Christian faith. There is a publicly funded Muslim school that operates in New York City. The ACLU has not issued one writ about that school. Now don't get me wrong....I have nothing against an Islamic school. But if it's funded by taxpayer dollars, isn't the separation and church / state violated? If this were a Christian school, I'm pretty sure the ACLU would have shat their pants in excitement.

So, I'm a Christian. I don't mind what other people do in the name of worship (as long as they don't break any laws). Most Christians I know feel the same way I do.....but it's the nutjobs that get all the media attention (and we all know that every religion / club / random group of people has a nutjob or two lurking about).

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Prayer in school. I totally agree that prayer shouldn't be forced on anybody. What I don't understand is how anybody could object to a moment of silence used to pray (to God of choice), meditate, or just reflect on whatevah. What's the harm in that?

Nothing, that is why it is permitted.

I do think the ACLU has a bias against the Christian faith. There is a publicly funded Muslim school that operates in New York City. The ACLU has not issued one writ about that school. Now don't get me wrong....I have nothing against an Islamic school. But if it's funded by taxpayer dollars, isn't the separation and church / state violated? If this were a Christian school, I'm pretty sure the ACLU would have shat their pants in excitement.

I don't agree. They are merely making Christians follow all the same rules as everyone else. Historically, this has not been the case.

[brandyII 9]

I'd say something about this topic but then I'd be going against my policy on not discussing politics, religion and the "Great Pumpkin", brandyII who is the proud mother of one agnostic and one pagan. My mother would be rolling in her Catholic grave!

[plain 12]

Nothing, that is why it is permitted

Then why did the ACLU fight the law tooth and nail? In fact, they fought it all the way to the Supreme Court. There's a current challenge to the law in Illinois.

And, what special perks have Christians historically enjoyed? Other than, I guess, the 1870 establishment of Christmas as a federal holiday...

I know several atheists. I can usually catagorize them into 2 broad groups: 1) The athesist that doesn't believe in God, but doesn't belittle me for doing so, or 2) The angry atheist that jeers me because I do believe in God (I've gotten comments that my religion makes me a simpleton, that I'm partaking in the opiate of the masses, and how can I choose superstition over science?).

Christians afraid of atheists? I'm not....at least until they toss me into the arena to battle lions! I don't think there are many lion tossers on this site.

Edited April 30, 2008 by plain
piss poor spelling

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Then why did the ACLU fight the law tooth and nail? In fact, they fought it all the way to the Supreme Court. There's a current challenge to the law in Illinois.

And, what special perks have Christians historically enjoyed? Other than, I guess, the 1870 establishment of Christmas as a federal holiday...

You'd have to give me more information on the ACLU case you refer to.

Christian perks:

National holidays such as Christmas and Easter,

You are not excluded from running for public office in some states such as TX because you believe in a God and yes, that one is still on the books as of today,

Your religion pushed for "In God We Trust" on our money,

Your religion has been in our schools for many years until recently... matter of fact, it was forced upon children in schools through the 60s,

In a court of law you do not have to affirm, thus letting the world know your religious (or lack of) views,

The law supported your rights to force children from Indian Reservations and force them into "assimilation" schools so they too, could find God (can you imagine if the Atheists would have attempted that one?),

People are still paroled today for "finding God" and you have to admit, not finding God is not appealing to the parole board and considering that the current estimates are that 13%+ of the US is atheist, less than 1% of the prison populations are atheist,

You were permitted to change our pledge of allegiance in the 50s,

You were permitted to own slaves based on biblical doctrines,

Tax dollars were previously used to decorate federal buildings and land with Christian symbols,

The worship of your God is tax deductable,

Your churches pay no property taxes thus not contributing to the same funds as the rest of us,

The costs you have to promote your religion and recruit new followers are tax deductable,

For many years non Christians were not permitted to adopt children, and they prevented people that did not agree with your religion from adopting. Such as two same sex couples who are Christian. They still try, but they lost that battle in San Francisco recently,

Your religion has prevented same sex couples from marrying and let's face it, the discrimination of gay folks isn't coming from the atheists, that one is to the credit of the Christians,

In CO just a few years ago it was the Christians who pushed for, and obtained laws (that would later be overturned by higher courts) that prevented gay people from renting/buying homes and being protected in their employment settings (did I mention my sis is gay and lives in Denver?),

Abortions were against the law due to Christian beliefs and not any other,

And the list goes on. Those are just off the top of my head. Can you imagine if ANY atheist were to attempt any of the above what would happen?

Nobody is saying your child can't pray in school, what they are saying is that it can't be led by a teacher and it cannot disrupt the learning process of other students. Is that really asking so much? Schools are free to provide space for children to pray their little hearts out if that is what they wish, they just can't force it on those children who do not want to participate. What in the world is wrong with that? Yet many Christians are in an uproar over this. And why, for goodness sakes? The only thing that is left is to force it on those children who do not share your religion. Can you imagine how atheists feel watching this one play out?

I know several atheists. I can usually catagorize them into 2 broad groups: 1) The athesist that doesn't believe in God, but doesn't belittle me for doing so, or 2) The angry atheist that jeers me because I do believe in God (I've gotten comments that my religion makes me a simpleton, that I'm partaking in the opiate of the masses, and how can I choose superstition over science?).

Christians afraid of atheists? I'm not....at least until they toss me into the arena to battle lions! I don't think there are many lion tossers on this site.

Funny thing, I know several Christians. I can usually categorize them into 2 broad groups: 1) The Christian that does believe in God and does not belittle me for not doing so, or 2) The angry Christian that jeers me because I do not beleive in God (I've gotten comments that my lack of religion make me a devil worshiper, evil, without morality, and how can I take proven science over superstition).

Atheists afraid of Christians? Damn right many are. We have traditionally lost jobs, we have even been murdered because we don't believe the right way.

How many Christians do you suppose would vote for an atheist president even if they share the same views on politics as the atheist running for office? I'll bet you they'd vote for a democrat over an atheist they agree with.

So when I hear this nonsense about Christians being persecuted, it makes me giggle. Christians have NO clue what they are talking about when they spout that stuff. Now that they are having to follow the same rules as they have forced us to do historically, they believe this is persecution. They have NO clue what persecution even means.

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

So when I hear this nonsense about Christians being persecuted, it makes me giggle. Christians have NO clue what they are talking about when they spout that stuff. Now that they are having to follow the same rules as they have forced us to do historically, they believe this is persecution. They have NO clue what persecution even means.

I'm sorry, but you don't know the experiences of every Christian person. When someone "spouts" they may have been persecuted, it doesn't mean that at some point you weren't persecuted, it just means that they were! By admitting someone else was treated poorly, it doesn't take away from your own experiences.

"Persecution is the active, systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another group or individual." If you can claim persecution, then so can Christians, who have experienced the exact same thing as you.

Personally- on some other topics- I don't believe in prayer in schools or moments of silence. Not because someone's rights- but because parents should be taking the lead in teaching children.

As far as having all types of decorations on city halls or other government buidings... your tax dollars go to benefit ALL types of programs. Pro-abortion, Pro- life, domestic violence shelters, studies to determine racism, taking children away from their parents, giving money to homeless, giving money to help AIDS patients, giving money to help sex offenders, money to republicans, money to democrats, money to libertarians, and money to a various flurry of churches and organizations. If you're going to fight a $30 Chrismas tree- you should be fighting all the other expenses as well. It's not just about putting up a Hannukah decoration- it's about putting up Hannukah, Kwanzaa, Ramaddan, heck even Festivus! They don't put up decorations to recognize every religion, they put them up because the majority of people like them. I don't care if they're up or not on government buildings. It doesn't change the holiday. But I don't get all offended when I walk into a Shaw's in Sharon, MA (where the majority of people are Jewish) and they only have Hannukah decorations. The majority of the people who live there believe in that holiday. I consider it a cultural learning lesson!

Also, non Christians alike are getting the "perks" of Easter and Christmas. Days off work, better pay if you do work that day. The people who should really be crying foul are the holidays that are recognized by other religions where the people DON'T get that time off. Jewish holidays happen yet they don't get formal time off for it. They have a better complaint.

[plain 12]

Sorry I scared you, Wasa. I'm sorry that I have no clue what I'm talking about when mentioning persecution. I'm sorry that I don't know what persecution even means......but hey, at least you can get some giggles whenever I bring it up, right?

[Fanny Adams 7]

I remember the fuss over The Golden Compass. I confess, I wouldn't want my children to see it. It's not that I fear that the movie would make them question their belief (I think it is the duty of all Christians to question the faith. Belief without question leads to a very weak faith indeed, IMO). Rather, it's that I find the concept blasphemous (by the end of the series, God is shown to be a liar, feeble, and senile....He's killed) and my kids are too young right now. Once you see something, you can't unsee it. I have absolutely no problem with the Harry Potter series.

I remember the fuss over The Golden Compass too, albeit only as a news item about those weird people overseas (i.e. in the US :thumbup:). I've seen the movie and I remember coming out extremely puzzled as to what all the fuss was about. I saw a harmless kid's fantasy adventure, and didn't get any religious or anti-religious overtones from it at all.

Can you explain what you found "blasphemous" about it? I couldn't find it even when actively watching the movie with that idea in mind. If I hadn't heard about the controversy before I saw the movie, I'm pretty sure it would never have occurred to me that this movie had religious connotations.

[plain 12]

Hi Fanny. It wasn't the movie I had a problem with as much as it was the trilogy of books the movie was based on. The three books "The Golden Compass", "The subtle Knife", and "The Amber Spyglass" make up the His Dark Materials trilogy.

The series starts mildly, and doesn't start getting really blasphemous until the third book (of which I gave away the "surprise" in the post you quoted me on. Uh, sorry if I ruined it for anybody). Apparently, from what I read on IMDB, the movie was toned down before it was released in an attempt to pacify angry Christians.

I always read for myself any "controversial" books before I judge them. There is still an anti- Harry Potter backlash from some religions here in the States. I found nothing wrong with the Harry Potter series. And I wouldn't have protested the making of "The Golden Compass"...I just wouldn't have seen it.

So did I answer your question? I tend to ramble when I write late at night.

[Fanny Adams 7]

Thank you for answering. You explained your thoughts quite well on why you found the book blasphemous towards the end. However, do you think that many kids would have read this book and taken that meaning from it, without having been prompted by the controversy in the news? How many kids do you think would have seen the movie without bothering to read the book, if the controversy hadn't made media headlines?

I've taught literature to adolescents in the past, and to be frank, I've often had to lead them by the nose before they see the symbolism in the Narnia series, which is quite blatantly Christian. I doubt whether more than a few of the brighter sparks here and there would have "looked under the hood" to see any religious or philosophical statements made in this movie - unless, of course, they are lead by the nose to try to see it in that light.

I also found it interesting that The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe did not generate any scandal from the "atheist crowd" when that movie came out, yet it is far more obvious in promoting Christianity than The Golden Compass might be in speaking against Christianity.

[plain 12]

Right. I read the Narnia series (and to be honest, didn't particularly enjoy the books. I much prefer C.S. Lewis' nonfiction essays on theology). I agree with you that non-Christians might not even be aware of the undertones, as it is subtle (IMO). His Dark Materials is quite explicit.

Maybe nobody would have read the books if the controversy hadn't exploded like it did (To be honest, I would have suspected the studio of stirring up the controversy for media coverage, if they hadn't caved and re-written the movie). I myself am an avid, almost complusive reader, and so I tend to imagine everybody else rushing out to read as well. Hmmmmm, maybe I'm a bit narcissistic, eh? LOL

[Jesusislove 26]

First of all, I am a Chrisitian and I am excited to be one. Giving honor unto to God and my Lord and Master Jesus Christ. Many quote scriptures from the bible, but reading the bible is not the only thing that a Christian is supposed to do. We must be living epistles, read of men. Yes, read the bible, but most people read me. I stay humble in that aspect.

Secondly, protest is the way of America, we have the right to protest whatever we feel that is not right. Some have protested against the war; however, my husband has been in the military for 23 years and he was proud to serve his country. He could have gotten out of going to war because he is the only son in his family. I am not saying that I agree with everything about this war, but when my husband had courage, it gave me courage. To God be the glory, he made it home in one piece and that is my prayer for every soldier.

Thirdly, as a parent, I can choose whatever movie I want my children to see. Golden Compass happens to be one of them I really do not care to see nor my children, and not just that movie, there are many TV shows that I do not agree with either. That is my preference as a parent. It is the duty of parents to protect their children from anything that seems like a threat to them. I tell you, our children are going through enough and do not need any extra help from television or movies. TV as a whole is limited to my children. I am a Christian, but I am also a parent.

Lets not get being a Christian mixed up with being a parent. I am protective of my children. I am heavily involved with being an advocate for my children and others. To add there are many parents who are not Chrisitian that are against movies like Harry Potter and other ones because they are parents. I feel some things parents rant and rave about is far fetch sometimes, but I can see where they are coming from when they bring up their children. Children softens my heart, even if I think somehting is okay, I think of children and then I say okay, I agree.

I do not fear this movie at all, I know what I believe and in whom I believe. I have trained my children well, they tell me when they think a movie is not right. This movie will not have any affect on them, they don;t like it. I wanted to see some movies for for myself to check it out for them, but they corrected me.

Edited May 1, 2008 by LLPlady3

[Daisalana 33]

Didn't read the posts, but just from the title.....

I didn't know people were afraid of atheism?!

[ELENATION 0]

I don't necessarily think that people are afraid of atheism, I think that many religious parents prevent their kids from learning about it in an effort to keep the child in the religious path, considering that children are easily influenced by pretty much everything, book, movie, etc... I would think that parents wouldn't be outraged if their grown up children learned about it, just my opinion...

I personally don't see the point on the protests, in fact they bring more attention to the movie/book... totally pointless