What if it just...doesn’t work?

[summerset 5,265]

19 minutes ago, catwoman7 said:

A lot of people don't want to believe that, but....

I think the worst is that patients think of themselves as "failures" when they're not reaching this very specific goal. People are all too eager to advise: "Follow your plan! Listen to your treatment team!"

However, when it comes to goal setting, all of this seems to go down the drain within a millisecond. No more listening to the treatment team ("I REFUSE TO BE A STATISTIC!!!").

[catwoman7 11,212]

26 minutes ago, summerset said:

I think the worst is that patients think of themselves as "failures" when they're not reaching this very specific goal. People are all too eager to advise: "Follow your plan! Listen to your treatment team!"

However, when it comes to goal setting, all of this seems to go down the drain within a millisecond. No more listening to the treatment team ("I REFUSE TO BE A STATISTIC!!!").

my dietitian (and surgeon, too) told me specifically NOT to make normal BMI my goal, since, as I said, he told me only 10-15% of his patients make it that far.

When I went in for my first consult, I told them my goal was to weigh 200 lbs. They said that was very reasonable. When I got there, I told them I now wanted to weigh 170-180. They told me if I worked really hard at it, that was do-able, too. When I got there and told them I now wanted to make it to a normal BMI (which at my height, is under 155 lbs), they looked a bit alarmed and warned me that very few people make it that far, so that wasn't a reasonable goal. I did eventually make it, but I'm very aware that this isn't the norm. Honestly, I would have been happy weighing anything less than 200 lbs, after being over 300 for so many years. I mean, I'm glad I was able to lose all of my excess weight, but I would have been really happy even being under 200 lbs for once in...well, forever.

Edited February 27, 2021 by catwoman7

[summerset 5,265]

At some point ones needs to ask the question: "Is going lower with weight worth the additional restrictions?"

[catwoman7 11,212]

4 minutes ago, summerset said:

At some point ones needs to ask the question: "Is going lower with weight worth the additional restrictions?"

absolutely. At one point I reached a low of 138 lbs, but it would have been nearly impossible to maintain that. I'm much more comfortable where I am now. It's still work to maintain it, but it's tolerable, and I'm willing to do it.

[Creekimp13 5,840]

3 hours ago, catwoman7 said:

When I went in for my first consult, I told them my goal was to weigh 200 lbs. They said that was very reasonable. When I got there, I told them I now wanted to weigh 170-180. They told me if I worked really hard at it, that was do-able, too. When I got there and told them I now wanted to make it to a normal BMI (which at my height, is under 155 lbs), they looked a bit alarmed and warned me that very few people make it that far, so that wasn't a reasonable goal. I did eventually make it, but I'm very aware that this isn't the norm. Honestly, I would have been happy weighing anything less than 200 lbs, after being over 300 for so many years. I mean, I'm glad I was able to lose all of my excess weight, but I would have been really happy even being under 200 lbs for once in...well, forever.

This is such an interesting discussion, and we don't talk about this. My first goal was to just be under 200, too. That seemed like enough. Just to be pretty regular sized and not need special accomidation...not have to worry about weight limits, fit in normal auditorium seats.....and maybe get some good health benefits.

I reached 200 and thought I could do a little more. I remembered feeling and looking my best at 170 in my youth...back when I could run five miles and work all day and not get too tired. So I thought...ok, I'll try for 170. I'm a muscular person. My feet are size 11 and my shoulders are broader and stouter than many men's. My body style isn't willowy. So I worked hard for 170....got there and felt incredible. Then, I went on a really rugged cross country camping/hiking trip and without realizing it got down to 160 and weirdly....just didn't like how I looked as much. I looked older, my wrinkles were more prominent, I prefer more curve and less prominent muscle on myself. I like eating a few more calories. I like getting 10,000 steps a day...and doing active things that I enjoy....but I don't enjoy constant training schedules and work outs.

In the end, it's all a balance. Figuring out your best you...is a balance.

Catwoman, I'm glad to hear that your team, like my team....had realistic information available for you and encourage realistic goals for their clients. My team was all about long term results, long term habits, therapy to figure out the bad choices, little changes that add up.

Sometimes I feel like the teams that do super restricted calories for super rapid weight loss....are treating their patients more like walking advertisements for their "miracle fix" than patients whose futures they're invested in.

I see my bariatric team once a year now. How long will I do this? Forever. They want to see me once a year. If my nutrient levels are stable...this can extend to once every few years...but they want a long term relationship to track my progress for research. I think this is so important.

[catwoman7 11,212]

1 hour ago, Creekimp13 said:

btw - did you have a picture of a dog (husky, maybe?) as your profile pic at one time? If so, I remember you from a couple of years ago, and in fact a couple of months ago you crossed my mind for some reason. Have you been away for awhile? (I've been on here for five or six years - but I'll go away for awhile and then come back - rinse and repeat). If you're the same person, you were here right before I disappeared again last time.

Edited February 27, 2021 by catwoman7

[Creekimp13 5,840]

Yepper, I've been away a while:) And will likely disappear again. Sometimes I enjoy this board, sometimes I don't. Love information and personal experience sharing, but am put off by experts and drama (not seeing much of that right now, which is nice). Pretty soon it'll be warm outside and I'll be gardening and have less time for this. Life keeps going:) Nice to "see" you again.

[catwoman7 11,212]

1 minute ago, Creekimp13 said:

Yepper, I've been away a while:) And will likely disappear again. Sometimes I enjoy this board, sometimes I don't. Love information and personal experience sharing, but am put off by experts and drama (not seeing much of that right now, which is nice). Pretty soon it'll be warm outside and I'll be gardening and have less time for this. Life keeps going:) Nice to "see" you again.

I can't remember exactly when you were on or when it happened, but a lot of the former "experts" left a couple of years ago. They went over to Obesity Help for awhile, but then most of them dropped off of that, too. I guess most people leave these kinds of boards once they're a couple years out if everything's going OK (and sometimes even if everything's NOT going OK...). I'm off and on them. One advantage is that it does help to keep my head in the game. And now that I'm retired and we're trapped in the house because of COVID (or at least until spring), I've become pretty active again.

[Cherié H 15]

Just reading the conversations here I wonder if the decease in stomach size reduces the need for as many kcals to maintain function. I’m fairly new at it, but I don’t imagine ever eating as much or what I used to eat again. But again I don’t really know due to lack of experience. But I’m thinking I’ll probably be Protein supplementing for the rest of my life...

[Cantstop1977 5]

On 2/26/2021 at 9:28 AM, mweiss1998 said:

I am 25 days PO and am currently afraid it isn't going to work. I dropped 20 lbs in the first 10 days and haven't lost a pound since. I am measuring and tracking everything, following my program and getting my fluids. I am hoping things start moving soon.

The same for me! I am nervous! I lost 8 pounds pre surgery and then 12 within the first week or so. I had my surgery Feb. 4th. I haven’t lost a pound since the first post week! 🥺

[catwoman7 11,212]

5 hours ago, Cantstop1977 said:

The same for me! I am nervous! I lost 8 pounds pre surgery and then 12 within the first week or so. I had my surgery Feb. 4th. I haven’t lost a pound since the first post week! 🥺

it's the infamous three-week stall - it just came early for you. Mine was weeks 2 & 3. Almost everyone goes through that early stall. Just stick to your program and it'll eventually break. It always does!

[Arabesque 7,240]

Great discussion @catwoman7 & @summerset.

I wonder if many don’t really hear or believe the statistics that most only end up losing about 65% of the weight they need to lose to put them into the healthy BMI range after surgery. Or maybe they weren’t even told that information?

Though I was told & read about it, I still set my goal at 60kg a healthy BMI simply because I had reached that point many times before. I just couldn’t manage to stay there long term. Though my surgeon did support my goal & my reasons behind it he did it with a but remember...

I know I’ve exceeded my goal but I also recognise I’m not quite 2 years out. Who knows what the future will bring.

I’m a big advocate of finding your balance too @Creekimp13. Finding out what allows you to maintain a weight you’re happy at while being healthy & living & enjoying your life.

Having a supportive & realistic team who listens as well as advises is invaluable. Have to admit, while I enjoy seeing before & after pxts on this forum, I was equally pleased that my surgeon only has 3 or 4 such photos on his wall taken over a number of years & only one had probably lost 100% of their weight. Plus I was never given caloric goals at any stage by my team. Only Protein & fluid goals & likely serving sizes I would be able to manage as I progressed (about 1/4 cup, then 1/3 cup, etc.).

@summerset, I liked your comments re those who continue to restrict calories & exercise compulsively. Have they swapped their overeating addiction to an under eating one? Are they now seeking emotional comfort through what may be excessive exercise & related goal setting? And if they’re not being honest about their activity levels &/or caloric intake, is that the same as when they may have been in denial about their weight & food intake when they were obese?

[amyseattle 19]

Everything changes - but you’ve got to learn along the way... you simply won’t be able to eat that much, so it makes it easy however our brains remain the same so I recommend starting therapy as soon as possible! My surgery was 6 weeks ago - it’s not easy but it will be worth it.

[summerset 5,265]

3 hours ago, Arabesque said:

Have they swapped their overeating addiction to an under eating one? Are they now seeking emotional comfort through what may be excessive exercise & related goal setting?

Addiction transfer is real, as so many people have stated on this board. It doesn't have to be smoking, alcohol, gambling etc. - we all know that this not "healthy behavior". Addiction can be way more sneaky. Being addicted to exercise and eating "healthy" is all too often encouraged and seen as a good thing because it aids "weight loss". No one intervenes when things get too excessive.

Excessive exercise and eating little calories is seen as desirable. Something many obese people even aspire to achieve, being that person who "lives in the gym and eats 100% clean". And people in their environment only start "to worry" once the person has become thin enough to raise concern and/or suspicion. However, someone with a normal or slightly overweight BMI rarely raises these concerns so people suffer in silence.

Quote

And if they’re not being honest about their activity levels &/or caloric intake, is that the same as when they may have been in denial about their weight & food intake when they were obese?

I think most people don't actively lie about this.

Yes, maybe some people give the answers they deem to be "the right ones" - like all of us know what people in our environment want fat people to do, huh? So some people I guess actively lie/lied about calorie/food intake and exercise. It's the same the other way around. Once there is concern about a person getting too thin or not eating enough, the person might lie about food intake as well.

However, I think someone who claims to "eat very little" actually is convinced that he or she is not eating that much. After all "a little" and "a lot" is 100% relative, it always boils down to whom you're comparing yourself to. Just look at the posts where people ask about what amount of food is "normal" X weeks or X months after surgery. Compared to the amounts people on this board claim they eat I look like a hopeless glutton. To my environment my food intake looks fairly normal.

[summerset 5,265]

3 hours ago, Arabesque said:

I wonder if many don’t really hear or believe the statistics that most only end up losing about 65% of the weight they need to lose to put them into the healthy BMI range after surgery.

I never really looked into this but is there correlation between lower starting weights and higher starting weights maybe?

Like someone with a starting BMI of maybe 37 having a bigger chance of getting down to e. g. BMI 23 than someone who started with a BMI of 53?