Spanking

[skmsu 0]

They didn't have one. And even if they did, as soon as she got out she would have headed back for the fire. The playpen wouldn't have taught her the very important lesson that fire = pain.

Again, their choice to parent that way -- and yours as well. My choice to parent differently. Out of control wailing on your kids is violent. Controlled, calm spanking doesn't have to be. Many people have never experienced or seen controlled and calm discipline and therefore base their opinions on behaviors they've witnessed or experienced or seen on television. The discipline we use in our family is not violent.

But we are talking about a baby here. I have a fireplace and it has a screen. It's not like a kid can jump right into the fire. We are also capable of using language in various tones to comunicate things. Can you honestly say that had you not been hit to teach you that fire was hot you would not have learned that fact? I know that hitting is a simple easy solution, but maybe we are capable of doing better.

[gadgetlady 4]

I have a fireplace and it has a screen. It's not like a kid can jump right into the fire.

YOU have a fireplace and it has a screen. This particular situation was a rented condo in the 80's. There was a flimsy hanging grate which wouldn't have protected her from anything, much less the issue that she could burn herself on the metal itself.

Can you honestly say that had you not been hit to teach you that fire was hot you would not have learned that fact?

The toddler wasn't me, and the circumstances by which I learned that fire is hot were different. Every situation is different and requires a different response.

[Serena 0]

A crawling baby's brain is developmentally unable to process a connection between consequences and behavior. This is why the intelligent and informed parent will use distraction.

There are many ways to discipline older children that do not involve physical violence or humiliation. It disturbs me greatly that you seem to have chosen to spank first without ever attempting to employ more respectful and less drastic measures.

Children should respect their parents. How can a child respect a parent who out-weighs them by 150-200 pounds when the parent chooses to hit him. Is the message "might makes right"? What if your child hits another child? Will you hit her to teach her that hitting is wrong?

As a former Childrens' Services worker I often investigated families who were woefully uneducated, disadvantaged, often substance-abusing whose only response to anything was to act on impulse, bypassing whatever miniscule intellect they might possess. It did not surprise me that they hit their children for any infraction. It does, however, surprise and distress me that an educated person would.

[IndioGirl55 32]

I understand both side - hitting begets hitting - but I am old school and i beleive a little swat on the butt isn't going to damage the child - my grandaughter was about 3 ran into the street after me telling her not to - she got a powpow as she called it and never did it again - she's 13 now and remembers it.

I am lucky I usually just have to raise my voice with my youngest gd who is 3 now -

Abuse can be verbal and phyisical ... I remember the verbal stuff more than i remember the spankings -

I am against the State telling me what I can and can't do in my house

and i am not talking about illegal stuff - but just normal every day things. BB has too much power...

[gadgetlady 4]

A crawling baby's brain is developmentally unable to process a connection between consequences and behavior. This is why the intelligent and informed parent will use distraction.

Baloney. My kids could process the connection between one action and another at about 6 months. That's when I taught them sign language, to sign "please" and "thank you" and all sorts of other things. They processed connections quite fine, thankyouverymuch. They were quite capable of learning that an action can lead to a consequence even at that young age -- to get out of your high chair requires your signing "down" and then "please".

[skmsu 0]

Children should respect their parents. How can a child respect a parent who out-weighs them by 150-200 pounds when the parent chooses to hit him. Is the message "might makes right"? What if your child hits another child? Will you hit her to teach her that hitting is wrong?

Exactly! What a lousy example to set for a kid about appropriate behavior. It's also quite lazy. Using distraction or another form of discipline such as the "naughty chair" might mean you have to get off your ass more than once to make it work.

[gadgetlady 4]

What if your child hits another child?

When a child hits another child, it is in anger. Controlled spanking is not an angry, flailing, yelling, screaming, out of control response. Children can see the difference, even if some adults can't. Disciplinary spanking as a training method is not out of control and it is not a lazy response. It involves not only the spanking itself, but also discussions and explanations before and after of proper behavior.

I completely agree that children who wail on their children are wrong. They are not teaching, but reacting -- doing so in an out-of-control manner. Abuse is, and should be, illegal. Controlled, disciplinary spanking is not abuse.

[gadgetlady 4]

Baloney. My kids could process the connection between one action and another at about 6 months. That's when I taught them sign language, to sign "please" and "thank you" and all sorts of other things. They processed connections quite fine, thankyouverymuch. They were quite capable of learning that an action can lead to a consequence even at that young age -- to get out of your high chair requires your signing "down" and then "please".

I should clarify. I started training them with these methods at 6 months. They either weren't able to physically master the methods until about 8 months.

[Serena 0]

Exactly! What a lousy example to set for a kid about appropriate behavior. It's also quite lazy. Using distraction or another form of discipline such as the "naughty chair" might mean you have to get off your ass more than once to make it work.

Exactly, Susan!

I am so grateful to have been born into a non-violent family. No child has been hit in three generations and yet there is not a felon among us. In fact, my family members are all very accomplished despite having never been bullied or frightened by someone much larger and powerful. Go figure.

[gadgetlady 4]

No child has been hit in three generations and yet there is not a felon among us. In fact, my family members are all very accomplished

And you attribute all of this to the lack of spanking?

BTW, we don't have any felons in my family and all of us are very accomplished as well.

I think there is a non sequitur in the argument somewhere.

[Kat817 19]

I have the utmost respect for my parents, did for my grandparents--to suggest differently simply because they used a controlled method of discipline that some deem bad is ridiculous!

They did not spank/swat me because they outweighed me and could! They did it to teach me something---and they did. They did not teach me that I was their boss----that the world revolved around me. Look around you that is what you are getting in the world today!

They did not teach me that lesson simply by bullying me! They were not abusive, most people are not! Explaining, and time outs work fine most of the time, but defying that, is what got me in trouble, and what got my children in trouble.

We have no felons either. Although I do have a niece who is a crack head---oh yeah she doesn't count----they don't believe in spanking either. Oddly their older child is choosing to raise her kids totally different than she was raised...she has watched her sister spiral down right along with the rest of the family. I am not in ANY way saying that by not spanking her she became a druggie! I am just saying, it did not prevent it. There is MUCH, MUCH more to raising a child than that. It did NOT cause it---but neither did it PREVENT it.

And if you want to bring respect into it, I have never in my life seen kids treat parents more disrespectfully than they were. They walked all over the parents back then, and still do. They are not self supportive even in their 30's! They were shown no boundaries, and still have none. They borrow money---well borrow is the wrong word--that implies re payment, non stop!

The point to this rambling (it IS early!!) is that parenting can be effective with or without spanking. That is only part of the picture.

I do not believe anyone here condones abuse of a child. I do believe we all view what constitutes abuse differently. I just disagree with the blanket statements coming out of the discussion that one cannot respect parents who spank---BULL! And people who are spanked will be less successful? BULL! All swats are abusive? In my opinion--once again BULL!

A look around here on LBT, which is just a small sampling will show differently, some were disciplined with spanking, and have gone on to be very successful, and have not become abusers due to it, and it seems they still care about their parents!

Kat

[Livingthe Dream 0]

Get in your naughty chair now,,,, no lets talk about how you are acting in a mature way,,,, not lets talk about how daddy is going to set limits in his house and that you are about to get a spanking.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6icPodjaA]YouTube - Temper Tantrum of a 3 year old boy[/ame]

[candy8360 0]

I love the you tube video. Some children may benefit from other means of discipline, but there are some who just need an old fashioned spanking!

[BJean 16]

According to my church and my beliefs, spanking is abuse. There are no exceptions. I believe it is my duty to save all the little children who are being abused and who cannot speak for themselves against the tyranny of the adults in their lives. Therefore, all states should be regulated by the government regarding spanking and there should be a law that prohibits parents abusing, by spanking, their children. No parent should have the right to make this decision on their own. The government should enter homes and observe any spanking or proposed spanking (by threat) and legally bar parents physically from hitting their children for any reason. No parents are capable of deciding for themselves how they should raise their children. No exceptions.

I have only the best interests of the children at heart. I don't care if parents hit each other. I don't care if adults beat other adults to death, but they should be legally barred from hitting innocent children who cannot speak for themselves. Think about all the abused children who have no one to be their safety advocates.

Oh wait a minute, maybe I'm getting two debates intertwined here. Well, my argument above makes just as much sense as some of the arguments on the other thread.

[candy8360 0]

then you who all disapprove of ANY type of spanking should get together and have to deal with all the unruly children who never learn their limits. thank GOD mine are grown now. My father spanked me and even though I hated it at the time, if he had not done so I dread to think of how I would have turned out. I too believe in God and submit to church authority, but enough is enough. There are some things that are not any of the church's or the government's business, and how I choose to discipline my children is one of those things.