Spanking

[MeatballsMom 0]

BJean, you are again equating that parents are going to get carried away if they spank their child. Seems, again, a bit presumptous on your part. Also, noting that the rate of Child Abuse in America is simply from spankings and/or beatings is a tad uneducated on your part. I have to remember that child abuse statistics accounts for sexual acts, physical abuse and NEGLECT (meaning failure to feed, properly house and seek medical attention for the child).

The below info/statistics comes from the governments child welfare office--Please note that the largest percentage of child abuse cases/fatalities is from NEGLECT, not that any type of child abuse state below is better than the other, just pointing out the statistical evidence is all:

"Fatal child abuse may involve repeated abuse over a period of time (e.g., battered child syndrome), or it may involve a single, impulsive incident (e.g., drowning, suffocating, or shaking a baby). In cases of fatal neglect, the child’s death results not from anything the caregiver does, but from a caregiver’s failure to act. The neglect may be chronic (e.g., extended malnourishment) or acute (e.g., an infant who drowns after being left unsupervised in the bathtub).

In 2005, 42.2 percent of child maltreatment fatalities were associated with neglect alone. Physical abuse alone was cited in almost one-quarter (24.1 percent) of reported fatalities. Another 27.3 percent of fatalities were the result of multiple maltreatment types.

www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/fatality.cfm.

Also, comparing the US to that of Germany is like comparing apples and oranges in a sense. Although the Germans are catching up to the vastly and raplidly moving society that we have, they are still way different than Americans on many levels.

UNICEF Posted this:

The UNICEF research estimates that almost 3,500 children under the age of 15 die from physical abuse and neglect every year in the industrialized world. The greatest risk is among younger children. A small group of countries – Spain, Greece, Italy, Ireland and Norway – appear to have an exceptionally low incidence of child maltreatment deaths [Keyword being LOW, NOT obsolete]; Belgium, the Czech Republic, New Zealand, Hungary and France have levels that are four to six times higher [Note that some of these countries have no spanking laws]. The United States, Mexico and Portugal have rates that are between 10 and 15 times higher than those at the top of the league table.

The good news is that child deaths from maltreatment appear to be declining in the great majority of industrialized countries.

Violence in Society

The research also establishes that a clear relationship seems to exist between levels of child death from maltreatment and the levels of violence in society as a whole. The countries with the lowest rates of child deaths from maltreatment also have very low rates of adult deaths from assault. Similarly, the three nations with exceptionally high levels of child deaths from maltreatment also have exceptionally high adult death rates.

Studies were quick to point out that the US is the largest mediated country of VIOLENCE. That our media will show/display violence any time it occurs whereas other countries, such as Germany, does not-hence why you do not hear too much about their child abuse rate.

Here is an article regarding Germany's Child Abuse I will also post part of the article so that you do not have to link--Again, remember child abuse is NOT just physical abuse, but includes sexual abuse (human trafficing for sex crimes included which is HIGHLY predominant in Eurpoean countires) and NEGLECT (no feeding, providing proper shelter or medical treatment):

Child abuse cases in Germany prompt debate - International Herald Tribune

While the federal crime office was quick to note that statistics showed the number of children killed at home was not on the rise overall, it reported child-abuse cases had climbed to more than 3,000 in 2006 from about 1,900 in 1995.

Nowhere is the problem more acute than in Berlin, where the rate of reported abuse cases is four times the national average. "It's just atrocious," said Margit Eichler, a care giver for elderly people, out for a walk in the capital's Moabit district.

Again, the issue is that NOT ALL Countries post their statistics about Child Abuse as America does. That doesn't mean it does not exist or is minimal, because that just isn't the case.

Again, ANY FORM of child abuse is awful, but to equate a spanking for punishment to that of beatings, burnings, murders, failure to feed, shelter or give medical treatment and of all other sexual and human trafficing of young children for sex; well that in itself is ludicrous.

[Yaherd 0]

I know how I turned out and how my son turned out and he was never beat... he got a slap on his behind if he did something that might have hurt him in the long run... his hand was slapped or tapped if he touched something hot.. that may have burned him badly..

You can not tell anyone how to raise their own children.. My mom, me and my son are all great people who live a great good life ..loving life and each other... don't put me in your statistics ....

I am here on this board to address a weight issue..so I will not be answering your blogs anymore.. I am not your dr phil or your psychologist/psychiatrist, patient... I am a normal parent who loves her child enough to show him the best life I know how.. by the way my 26 year old son tells me evertime we talk what a great job I did raising him... he is all I need.. not you..

[BJean 16]

I absolutely do believe that parents can spank their children without flying off the handle and killing them. But the reason I equate hitting with abuse is because 1) I do not believe in hitting children because I believe that hitting in and of itself can be abuse, and 2) hitting or spanking is often done when a parent is frustrated. That can lead to serious abuse if the parent who hits when they are frustrated continues to do it repeatedly and often.

I have known too many people who have found themselves intending to just spank a child to get their attention and before they know it, they have raised some little red hot dots on their kid's behind.

I went to college with a young gal who was a single parent. She had 2 children when she was still far too young. She was upset with the world about having to tend to children instead of being able to go to the football games and school functions. She couldn't afford a babysitter and could just barely afford daycare while she was in class and at work. She confessed to me one day that she beat her children.

She actually had to take one of them to the emergency ward for a dislocated shoulder after she had jerked her little girl way too hard. She was for all the world, a very lovely person. She had no intention of harming her children. She really did love them. She was just in way over her head. She had no books to tell her how to discipline without hitting. She simply was so strung out from school work, a part time job, paying the bills and wiping her kids' snotty noses that she just lost it sometimes. I believe she confessed to me because she was scared to death she was going to seriously harm one of her kids. I know that her story is not all that uncommon.

If you want to correct your children by hitting them, spanking them, swatting their behinds, or whatever your term for it is, perhaps you are in total control and you know exactly what you are doing. If you never hit too hard and your children do not misinterpret the message of the spanking and your declarations of love for them afterwards, great. But if the truth is that you sometimes find yourself hitting in anger and frustration, I ask you to slow down, think it through and remember that your children depend on you for everything. They love you unconditionally and they want to feel loved and respected in return. It is confusing for some children to be spanked by the most important person in their lives.

I don't say all this to make you uncomfortable or defensive. I say all this because I care about the children.

[MeatballsMom 0]

BJean,

I for one am not uncomforatable with your opinion, if you were addressing that to me. What I find irritating is how others deem it necessary to, well tell others how to raise their children as though they are some kind of expert because their children turned out PERFECTLY!

This is one instance where the government needs to stay out of the home.

As for the young girl you speak of, there was obviously more going on than just the spankings. What I mean, is that she was overworked, underpaid, little if any outside help, too young and not mature enough to handle raising two children on her own.

There are many underlying factors to this young girls behavior, and I am not saying that excuses what she did, because she is obviously an example for your fight. I am merely saying that there are so many more factors to consider with your example than merely judging all whom spank against her actions alone.

You have made a good point, I am not knocking it down because I havewitnessed first hand people whom are out of control when punishing their children for unacceptable behavior, or just beating them because the sky is blue today.

I just hate the ALL parents whom spank for discipline and do it within reason for mere punishment alone, all anger aside, are coupled into a category of child abusers. I have witnessed child abuser and unfortunatly was subjected to one myself--spanking for discipline only as a last resort definitly does not fall into that category.

Thanks for the debate though, it has been rather interesting.

[Jennie1976 1]

Okay, I have a question. I asked everyone I work with. Most of them had been spanked as a child. It seems, as I read some of these posts, that people are concerned about a "mixed message" and "someone they trust hurting them". I was spanked as a child. I never thought about mixed messages or thinking that I couldn't trust my parents because they hurt me. In thinking of my parents, it was always love, never anything else. And, in my mini-poll here at work, 100% of the people here who were spanked felt the same way.

So I'm asking everyone here who was spanked. Be honest. Did you ever feel you got a mixed message or that you couldn't trust your parents because of spanking?

Because I have a feeling that, except in the most rare of cases, that doesn't exist.

[gadgetlady 4]

When I was spanked, I absolutely, unequivocally deserved it. I also knew and know that my parents absolutely, unequivocally love me unconditionally.

As an aside, my father (who was the one who did the spanking in my family) was whipped with a belt when he was a child, among other things that I would call physical and mental abuse. He never carried any of that into our family.

[brandyII 9]

When I was spanked, I absolutely, unequivocally deserved it. I also knew and know that my parents absolutely, unequivocally love me unconditionally.

As an aside, my father (who was the one who did the spanking in my family) was whipped with a belt when he was a child, among other things that I would call physical and mental abuse. He never carried any of that into our family.

Okay, you know I think spanking in general is wrong but be that as it may, the father spanking the girls in the family seems a little weird to me:confused2:

[gadgetlady 4]

Okay, you know I think spanking in general is wrong but be that as it may, the father spanking the girls in the family seems a little weird to me:confused2:

Why? When spanking is necessitated in our family, either my husband or I might be the ones to spank. All spanking is pre-pubescent, so I don't see a problem with it.

[brandyII 9]

I absolutely do believe that parents can spank their children without flying off the handle and killing them. But the reason I equate hitting with abuse is because 1) I do not believe in hitting children because I believe that hitting in and of itself can be abuse, and 2) hitting or spanking is often done when a parent is frustrated. That can lead to serious abuse if the parent who hits when they are frustrated continues to do it repeatedly and often.

I have known too many people who have found themselves intending to just spank a child to get their attention and before they know it, they have raised some little red hot dots on their kid's behind.

I went to college with a young gal who was a single parent. She had 2 children when she was still far too young. She was upset with the world about having to tend to children instead of being able to go to the football games and school functions. She couldn't afford a babysitter and could just barely afford daycare while she was in class and at work. She confessed to me one day that she beat her children.

She actually had to take one of them to the emergency ward for a dislocated shoulder after she had jerked her little girl way too hard. She was for all the world, a very lovely person. She had no intention of harming her children. She really did love them. She was just in way over her head. She had no books to tell her how to discipline without hitting. She simply was so strung out from school work, a part time job, paying the bills and wiping her kids' snotty noses that she just lost it sometimes. I believe she confessed to me because she was scared to death she was going to seriously harm one of her kids. I know that her story is not all that uncommon.

If you want to correct your children by hitting them, spanking them, swatting their behinds, or whatever your term for it is, perhaps you are in total control and you know exactly what you are doing. If you never hit too hard and your children do not misinterpret the message of the spanking and your declarations of love for them afterwards, great. But if the truth is that you sometimes find yourself hitting in anger and frustration, I ask you to slow down, think it through and remember that your children depend on you for everything. They love you unconditionally and they want to feel loved and respected in return. It is confusing for some children to be spanked by the most important person in their lives.

I don't say all this to make you uncomfortable or defensive. I say all this because I care about the children.

BJean,

It still amazes me how many people are so angry about this topic and how they're afraid their right to spank/hit/tap/slap whatever their children maybe taken away from them. Are we animals? I feel so many people are out of touch. Isn't this the 21st century?:thumbup:

[gadgetlady 4]

If you want to correct your children by hitting them, spanking them, swatting their behinds, or whatever your term for it is, perhaps you are in total control and you know exactly what you are doing. If you never hit too hard and your children do not misinterpret the message of the spanking and your declarations of love for them afterwards, great. But if the truth is that you sometimes find yourself hitting in anger and frustration, I ask you to slow down, think it through and remember that your children depend on you for everything.

I couldn't agree with you more.

[plain 12]

Just my $.02 here. When I was young and got spankings, my dad always cited the specific reason, and underscored how disappointed he was with me for choosing to engage in the punishable behavior (I never got spanked for a "first time offense"). Knowing that I had disappointed my dad was, by far, the worst part of the ordeal. I almost looked forward to the spanking part, because that meant that all was forgiven.

I still don't think anybody should interfere with how anybody else parents (except where there is clearly abuse....these cases should be examined on an individual basis, and not lumped together with all parents who spank).

[MeatballsMom 0]

Brandy,

It is not an anger issue, but rather an issue that the government and/or those opposed to spanking with their ever so bold attempt of sticking their noses into something that is of absolute no concern of theirs.

If you want to equate spankings with animalistic behavior, then what would you call imprisoning criminals? You know, placing humans in cages for the bad behaviors? That is more animalistic than spanking a child for their behavior.

Also, I do not honestly thing making the statement about being out of touch and in the 21st centruy with spanking children really makes much sense, do you?

We are in the 21st century and the human condition has honestly changed how much? We still have an disgusting amount of illiteracy across the globe, children starving to death across the globe, spousal abuse across the globe, women not educated the same as men--primarily still in undeveloped or third and some second world countries.........

The difference now? We have children killing children, we have children killing adults and the elderly, the increase rate of violent crimes is outstanding just from 40 years ago and the increase in young female violent crimes in the past 10 years is absurd.

It appears that a good portion of our society believes in handouts, but moreso that they deserve these handouts, and work? LOL.....what is that to them... Pregnancy rates amoung girls under 20 is still profound to that of just 40 years ago. In fact, of course this is 1996 stats, over 500,000 teens give birth annually costing $6.9 billion dollars for these teen child births.

If we are to look at the fact we are in the 21st century, I am thinking that those numbers should be waaaayyyyyy down than those of our ancestors from hundreds or thousands of years ago not wayyy up, right?

Why are they up so high? We, as a society, should ask what the heck we are doing wrong? Do you honestly believe it is spankings? I really do not think so.

PS.......Not angry while typing this, just making some points...... =)

Edited May 30, 2008 by MeatballsMom

[brandyII 9]

The "adults" who are in prison are able to understand, hopefully, what they are being punished for. Some are animals and I don't think spanking them would work, and we're basically punishing them that way and keeping the rest of us safe from them by putting them in prison. That's a whole different topic, (can o'worms) I'm speaking on behalf of "the children" and those that think they don't cross the line because they don't know how to parent.

There need to be laws to protect all children. While you may be the perfect spanker parent there may be other parents who have no idea what they're doing so in order to protect their children you must suffer. Does that make sense. You are "giving" in order for abused children to be protected. There are some pretty stupid people out there who have no idea of what they're doing when it comes to parenting. They don't all sit their kids down and discuss what they did wrong before a little tap and it's those kids that need protection and I don't know if there is enough manpower to go through each case on a child to child basis. It's for the 2 year old whose mother's boyfriend bashed his head in while playing a video game because he was crying. Better to just pass a law to make it illegal just to protect the ones that are abused than do as we're doing now which obviously is not working.

So if a law is passed and I do believe there will be one in our future, you will be able to say to yourself I gave up spanking my child in order to protect the abused children in our country and it will make you feel better in the end, no pun intended. brandyII.

[MeatballsMom 0]

hmmmm.....interesting way to look at it, honestly....but think about what you just said.

Let us pass a law that tells parents they can not use spanking as a means of discipline any longer. Do you honestly think it is going to stop that ladies boyfriend from bashing in the head of her two-year old or stop the guy who put his 4 month old in a microwave and turned it on?

Do you think the no spanking law is going to stop the child porn freak or the child molesters? Do you honestly thing that the no spanking law is going to make a parent feed, house and give medical attention to their child properly? And what about human trafficing or the selling of young girls for sex? I seriously do not think that the no spanking law is going to stop that either.

That is the problem, most people fail to understand or equate ALL of the standards used in child abuse statistics. Beatins and violent crimes, unfortunatly, are just one and a smaller statistic then those children whom have died because of neglect, not just physical abuse.

Passing a law to stop spanking is not going to stop the child abusers that you have mentioned becasue their actions, I am pretty sure but obviously do not know for a fact that the extreme violence did not escalate from spankings. Those types of people are obviously disturbed beyond all doubt.

[gadgetlady 4]

Let us pass a law that tells parents they can not use spanking as a means of discipline any longer. Do you honestly think it is going to stop that ladies boyfriend from bashing in the head of her two-year old or stop the guy who put his 4 month old in a microwave and turned it on?

Do you think the no spanking law is going to stop the child porn freak or the child molesters? Do you honestly thing that the no spanking law is going to make a parent feed, house and give medical attention to their child properly? And what about human trafficing or the selling of young girls for sex? I seriously do not think that the no spanking law is going to stop that either.

All of the things you mention are already illegal.