Spanking

[MeatballsMom 0]

nice try sweetheart........I was simply contrasting colors so that YOU would understand my responses and the quoting.

Just to help you out though, pyschological terms for Red~~~>

The most emotionally intense color, red stimulates a faster heartbeat and breathing. It is also the color of love. Red clothing gets noticed and makes the wearer appear heavier. Since it is an extreme color, red clothing might not help people in negotiations or confrontations. Red cars are popular targets for thieves. In decorating, red is usually used as an accent. Decorators say that red furniture should be perfect since it will attract attention.

Hmmmm........so, are red roses a sign of love or anger? Red=attract attention? Hmmmmmmmmm

[Lunabeane 2]

"Dr. Phil is brilliant," is an oxymoron. There is absolutely nothing brilliant about Dr. Phil. He's a man that studied a subject, found a market, and sold his product. He's no different than a car salesman.

[gadgetlady 4]

I've heard tell from people in the industry that Dr. Phil is one of the ugliest, nastiest, angriest people (off-camera) around. "Physician", heal thyself!

[MeatballsMom 0]

LOL @ gadgetlady. He in fact is nothing short of a bully. For someone whom cannot even keep his own home straight, it would appear that he should not cast stones, no?

I am more leary of those whom quote him and live by his words as though they are gospel. Makes one wonder. I should have never gone to college and begun working on my PhD, dummy me...I should have gone to the Dr. Phil school......sat at home and watched Oprah, because she is a super intelligent woman too.

It appears I would have both been better off and some how miracuously acquired the ability to read peoples minds and know their emotional status when they do things.

Dang, what was I thinking? (please note that this is extreme sarcasm of course)

[brandyII 9]

nice try sweetheart........I was simply contrasting colors so that YOU would understand my responses and the quoting.

Just to help you out though, pyschological terms for Red~~~>

The most emotionally intense color, red stimulates a faster heartbeat and breathing. It is also the color of love. Red clothing gets noticed and makes the wearer appear heavier. Since it is an extreme color, red clothing might not help people in negotiations or confrontations. Red cars are popular targets for thieves. In decorating, red is usually used as an accent. Decorators say that red furniture should be perfect since it will attract attention.

Hmmmm........so, are red roses a sign of love or anger? Red=attract attention? Hmmmmmmmmm

This only shows that you use the computer for research also and you still appear angry:lol:

[MeatballsMom 0]

Brandy...let me change the color so you can get off the ANGRY comments........It proves I only use the computer to do research? Hmmm....seems to me that researching my info before I post my comments is a tad more educated than posting Dr. Phil's ga-ga. But hey, what do I know, right?

When you dare to post information, especially as you did when attempting to use statistics, it might do you justice to research the material before posting. ie. the info about other countries......hmmmmmm, only 10% of the worlds countries have banned spanking and even some of those countries went as far as to say that the US probably should not ban spanking because our country is waayyyyyyyyy different that theirs.

Better yet, posting info from Dr. Phil as though he is a reliable medical doctor with years of field training and his own theories and work to back up his mouth. Riiiiight!

But hey, what the heck is their info to research, especially reliable info to research with statistical evidence when we can just turn on the TV and watch Dr. Phil or read his book that other people wrote for him and/or edited the hell out of.

PS......hope the blue helps you to stop obsessing about the color and more about the content.

[brandyII 9]

I find the colors more interesting

[BJean 16]

Wow. Looks like I pushed somebody's buttons.

For the record, I didn't say that people know what is in other people's minds. You must have been so angry by what you were reading, you didn't read it that thoroughly. Or maybe you just didn't understand what you read.

I don't wonder that you are so quick to react negatively to something you diagree with when you hate people like Dr. Phil and Oprah so much.

What about them makes you so upset? That they have been so successful and have so much influence? Oprah's a horrible person because she brought Dr. Phil to her audience's attention and put him on TV? Or is she just horrible because she's Oprah?

I guess we should stop reading best seller personal help books put out by people like Dr. Phil, turn off the Oprah show and tune into our computers where we can hang on YOUR every word regarding spanking and human behavior. I mean after all, you are seeking your doctorate and that makes you well-qualified to criticize those imbiciles who know absolutely nothing and who are thiefs because they use books and other resources to help them do their dirty work.

Are you so put out with Dr. Phil and Oprah because they think spanking is wrong?

I guess I'm wrong too because I believe that parents should stop, think, and assess the situation instead of just hitting a child. I did not, by the way, suggest that parents should wait until they get home or are removed from the place of the child's infraction to address the situaiton. I don't know where you got that. Seems like another assumption along with all the false assumptions about Dr. Phil, Oprah and oh yes, George Bush and Barack Obama.

Hmmm. An equal opportunity insulter. Cool. Brilliant.

Is there anyone in the public eye that you do respect? I don't suppose Pat Robertson impresses you, does he? You're not impressed by that forward thinking Mike Huckabee are you? Who do you think is intelligent and worthy of listening to? Care to toss a few of your heros' names up on the board?

Edited May 26, 2008 by BJean

[MeatballsMom 0]

BJean? Here is your posting, therefore please note what I have highlighted yours in "red" as being what I referred to and my responses in "blue".....the rest of your quote is left in black:

One thing that I've observed while reading this thread is that people who are spankers seem to think that all the kids who misbehave or act out or are obnoxious or in juvenile detention facilities are the ones who were not "disciplined" and only "talked to". That's why I'm glad that Brandy posted Dr. Phil's advice. There are forms of discipline that work, and work extremely well, that have absolutely nothing to do with corporal punishment.

Dr. Phil is a brilliant man, although somewhat obnoxious himself sometimes. He certainly does know about human behavior and has had a very successful career because of his ability to decipher human behavior. You may not enjoy his personality and you may not like how he says something, but you can't argue with his success and his very real knowledge of human behavior.

I do not agree with Dr. Phil, and I hate to break it to you, but what he does is simple: He has highjacked other REAL psychiatrists works and put a twist to it so that he can be cool on TV. He is an arrogant ass and a bully. He hasn't done anything but publicly humiliate, degrade and bully people in public. You mean to tell me that psychological abuse is okay in your book but not physical?

Are you aware of the fact that psychological abuse in fact, with a multitude of actual studies to prove this, has more long term detrimental effects on children than spanking?

You say he is successful? At what? Being on TV, well heck look at Britanny Spears, Michael Jackson, Lindsey Lohan, Paris Hilton...well, they are successful and such upstanding models for our society too, Right? I suppose I am jealous of them too? LOL.....you're funny!

I just choose not to look at celebrities to get advice for raising my family, you know because they do such a bangup job of raising their own.....LOL....more like their nannies raise their children. Wait, Oprah does not even have any children does she? So she is qualified to speak about parenting skills because of why? That is what I thought and my point with her.

If you feel that you must spank your child because they have not responded to your voice, then you are probably not using your voice and your intellect in the most effective way. It takes a lot of thought, patience and respect for a parent to not hit a child when the child has done something wrong repeatedly and will not stop when they are told to. But spanking is not the best consequence if you are truly trying to teach your child a lesson. It is a very quick way to shut them down, that we probably all agree on.

How do you know it is not the best way to teach a lesson? Again, assuming that ALL children are alike and respond to the same punishments as other children do. Termpements, behaviors and personalities are different for EVERYONE. Not all will respond to consequences and rewards the same as others. Remember this.

But your goal as a parent/teacher/protector should be to give the message to your child that you respect and love them and that he or she is an extremely important human being. Even though they are having a melt down for one reason or other, they need to know that you are the person who is there to help them with the problem that is causing the misbehavior. They need to know that they can depend on you when they are tired, angry, frustrated, hungry, scared and all the other emotions kids have, even at those times when you are preoccupied with your own emotions or tasks.

Because a parent spanks their child means they are conveying the message that they do not love their child? A tad presumptous don't you think. You are making the assumption that this is what the child will "think" because he or she is being spanked of the ill behavior.

Do you ever stop and think that their are a multitude of parents whom tell their children that they are not disciplinging them because they don't love them, but quite the contrary? That they do not want to see them get hurt or do bad things so they are trying to teach them a lesson? Because you do not agree does not make it wrong.

The first step is for you to figure out what is really going on. You cannot correct a child if you do not understand what caused the behavior. Yeah, I know what you're thinking... if your child is acting out in a store you sure don't have enough time to stop, analyze and communicate with your child in order to determine how to deal with his/her problem. But in fact, it is your job to do just that.

The reality is that, for most parents who spank, they are frustrated and sometimes perplexed at their child's behavior and they just need for the behavior to stop so they can do whatever they feel is more important at that particular time.

And here we go: you stated above that for most parents who spank, they are frustrated and will spank so that they can do whatever it is they feel is more important that that time. Yes, I read your post correctly and did not nor am I now posting in anger. I can read and it is as plain as day right above this paragraph!

You can argue all you want about the kind planning and forethought that goes into the spankings you administer, but MOST spankings are not carried out in that manner.

But most spankings are carried out in this manner----Again, how do you know this unless you are able to read the parents mind and comprehen their emotional state without them even telling you.

That is why a clerk in a store is a bit outraged when they see a parent hit a child. They know that if a parent is angry enough to hit their child in public, there is a good chance that when they have the child in private and they are angry and frustrated, they are likely to be even more physically harmful to the child.

That is why we're having this discussion. Not because most people use good judgement when they spank their kids. It is because spankings happen most often when people are angry and frustrated at their child for doing something repeatedly that they've been told not to do. You can justify spanking your child until the day is long, but we all know why we're having this discussion.

Again, because I spanked my son on the back of the hand for taking something that does not belong to him, that automatically means the store clerk is going to assume I beat the crap out of my son at home? Really? Are you seriously saying this?

Again, how can you attest to the clerks line of thinking and reasoning? How do you know the clerk is thinking that the parent must beat the heck out of the child at home? Again, how do you know the parents train of thought and emotional status is that of and angry frustrated person?

If you have the utmost respect for your children and you take your role of parenting as seriously as you would any job, I believe that you would work very hard to understand your child and what causes their misbehavior, like Dr. Phil suggested, and solve the problem of rule breaking in a non-corporal punishment way that actually teaches a lesson to the child and instills self-respect and self-confidence instead of fear.

Again with the Dr. Phil comment. He is not brilliant nor is he a role model. Again, his kids are the most upstanding citizens? He raised them all by himself in the one and only marriage he was able to hold on to because he is such a great man. What about all of his co-workers, you know the ones whom call him an ass, bully, jerk..etc. etc. Well, I am sure his PhD from Germany must make him more qualified than anyone, right?

Really, I am sure I can highjack the works of world class psychiatrist and put it on TV by being a drama queen too. I find it quite humorous that you make the bold assumption that I am jealous of him. In order to be jealous I would have to want what he has, and I hate to break it to you, but I want nothing that person has. Not one inch of his life.

I dare not look at myself has high-and-might or think that I am smarted than others because I am working on my PhD, but what I do know is this: Unless you plan on spending your time and money to go to every home whom spanks their children and give your method of child rearing a shot, it would make more sense for you to stop meddeling in other families lives as though yours was perfect with out any issues because I would be willing to bet your children were not perfect and I am sure they have done plenty of things that you do not know of and some that would blow you away.

Again, I do not advocate spanking children, but it is there for a line of punishment when necessary, and sometimes dear, it is necessary.

Please understand the difference between spanking and beating. I cannot imagine that not one time, even when your children were little you never spanked them on their hands for getting into anything. If not, good for you as I assure you for me, it is the very and I do mean very last resort that is approached seldomly because I had a father who actually did beat the hell out of me and I would never do that to my children. Hence the difference between spankings and beatings. I assure you there is a big difference.

But here is some research on your beloved Dr. Phil.......HE HAD HIS LICENSED REVOKED ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO AND IT STILL HAS NOT BEEN REINSTATED. Although I pulled this info from only one site, there is plenty, and I do mean plenty of research on this arrogant bully to prove what has been posted below:

In 1989, McGraw was sanctioned by the Texas State Board of Examiners of Psychologists for an ethical violation involving a 19-year-old patient and employee. Due to the sanctions, McGraw was unable to practice psychology independently.

McGraw shifted focus in 2003–4 to emphasize weight loss shows, books and products. His sisters Deana and Brenda and nephew Tony were among the featured testimonials on the Dr. Phil show.Within a few years, a Federal Trade Commission (FTC) probe and class-action lawsuit forced him to exit the weight loss business.

Sanctioned for unethical behavior (1989)

The Texas State Board of Examiners of Psychologists imposed disciplinary sanctions on McGraw on January 27, 1989 for an inappropriate "dual relationship" reported in 1988 by a therapy client/employee from 1984. McGraw was ordered by the Board to take an ethics class, pass a jurisprudence exam, complete a physical evaluation, undergo a psychological evaluation and have his practice supervised for one year in order to continue his private practice in Texas. McGraw admits to giving the client a "job" at his office (which is not allowed), but denied carrying on a sexual relationship with the 19-year-old, who says their relationship was "sexually inappropriate.As of 2008, McGraw has not completed the conditions imposed by the Board of Examiners of Psychologists, and he is not licensed to practice psychology in Texas, California, or anywhere else.

Weight loss products (2003)

In 2003, McGraw entered the weight-loss business, selling shakes, energy bars, and supplements. These products' labels, which carried the brand name "Shape Up", stated: "These products contain scientifically researched levels of ingredients that can help you change your behavior to take control of your weight." This met with swift criticism from various sources,accusing McGraw (a clinical psychologist, and not a physician) of lacking the expertise to recommend weight-loss products. Facing a Federal Trade Commission investigation into Shape Up's claims, McGraw pulled his supplements off the market in March 2004, and the FTC dropped its probe. In October 2005, several people who used McGraw's products declared an intent to file a class-action lawsuit against him, claiming that although the supplements cost $120 per month they did not stimulate weight loss.McGraw settled the suit in September 2006 for $10.5 million.

Britney Spears "intervention" (2008)

McGraw attracted criticism for his unannounced visit to celebrity Britney Spears' hospital room in January 2008. The visit appeared to be part of an attempt at getting Spears and her parents to take part in an "intervention" on the Dr. Phil television show.Immediately after the visit, McGraw issued public statements about Spears' situation that Spears' family spokeswoman Lou Taylor said violated their family trust in McGraw. "This is another example of a trust being betrayed," Taylor told Today co-host Meredith Vieira. "Rather than helping the family’s situation, the celebrity psychologist caused additional damage", she said.Several mental health care professionals criticized McGraw for his actions; however, fellow TV psychologist Dr. Joyce Brothers defended McGraw.One professional psychologist filed a complaint with the California Board of Psychology alleging that Dr. Phil practiced clinical psychology without a license and violated doctor-patient privilege by discussing Spears' case with the media. He also started a petition to have the Dr. Phil show removed from the air.

Edited May 26, 2008 by MeatballsMom
left out info

[brandyII 9]

I still find the colors more interesting and less scary:scared2:

Meatballsmom, when you reread all of your posts, complete posts do you not see how they could be construed as a bit angry and written too hastily? Or is it just me? I think you're focusing on the wrong points personally.

Edited May 26, 2008 by brandyII

[MeatballsMom 0]

Brandy,

It all depends on how one chooses to read into what I am writing, or better yet how they perceive my emotional state when I write.

I am not angry as I posted earlier, there is not much that angers me.

What I find so profoundly distrubing is people, and not you in particular but rather our society, trying to hang on the words of people like Dr. Phil.

Not only is he NOT a psychiatrist (Medical Doctor) but he has not even had a license to practice as a psychologist in almost 20 years because it was revoked and all he had to to was comply with the terms of the states licensing board probationary period.

Oprah, I have nothing against her, but she does not have children, so her advice is from the backseat. Not really fare to give advice and criticize others now is it? And I am not just talking about spanking children, but advice on children all together.

It is kind of like a man telling a woman whom was brutally raped that she cannot have an abortion. Really?

Before we go off on that debate, I am not for nor against abortion as it is not my business what you choose to do. You will ultimatly answer to someone, albeit yourself indefinently for your actions. Seriously, I was just trying to make a comparison is all as to the principle, not the act.

As far as answering BJeans request to list some of my heros, I really and truly do not have any to list. I look up to no one, but rather choose to witness how people behave and lead their lives. Then, I try to decide if this is what I want or should do myself that will help me. Either I do it, or I do not.

I am not one to conceed to what is PC for the moment nor do I delve into the currently societal ideological beliefs, but rather try to use my better judgement and move on.

I think we put too much focus on aspects of this life that do not deserve that much attention. I think we, and I mean society in general, lend too much attention to hollywood and other media industries because they broadcast their views onto us all.

Maybe I went off on a bit of a philosophical tangent, but I do not dare raise my children how society in generals thinks I should raise my children. I mean seriously, have you seen the chaos our society is in right now?

Likewise, I am not equating anything with discplining children right now, I am merely stating the obvious and that is this:

There are serious moral issues with society,in general, that should be addressed and spanking a child for disciplinary purposes only, NOT BEATING, should be at the very bottom of the list of things this country needs to take care of.

Ahhh........I am not a "Bible Thumper", in fact I attend church only on holidays. My point for posting that was because somewhere in a few postings back someone equated those whom spank their children with those whom attend church regularly and think it is okay to "beat" their children.

[brandyII 9]

See that came across much better to me, otherwise I don't care if someone disagrees with me, a lot of it has to do with how they come across.

I like your colors better now, take care brandyII.

[BJean 16]

I'm with brandy in wishing you well and hoping you take care, meatballsMom. You put a lot of your own interpretation on my post and that is your perrogative. I think that most people reading here will be able to distinguish between what I actually posted and how you dissected it and made it something different in some places. But that's fine. I think what I posted speaks for me and you certainly do not have to agree. That's what makes the world go 'round, they say.

I didn't expect to win any popularity contests by saying what I think about using corporal punishment when one disciplines one's children. My beliefs on this topic go way back to a time when Parent Effectiveness Training was a huge movement in Europe. I tried it with my children and found it to be the more intelligent approach, as well as being more effective in the long run.

Obviously everyone has a choice when they correct their children. But since child abuse has become so prevalent in the United States, it makes it imcumbent upon us to do all we can to help our fellow Americans learn better ways to cope with and discipline our children.

[brandyII 9]

BJean,

My daughter went to university in Germany last year, and she said the kids were really well behaved over there! Coincidence, maybe, maybe not....:sad:

[BJean 16]

Thanks Brandy. I am sure that there is child abuse everywhere in the world. But you sure don't hear about it being such an epidemic in other countries like it is in the U.S.

People work hard to differentiate spanking from child abuse on this thread, but it doesn't stretch the imagination much to suggest that the two seem to be linked. I mean if you never hit your child, there is certainly less chance that you will get carried away one day and turn it into more than just a spanking.

For me, it is just not acceptable for an adult to hit a child anymore than it is acceptable for a person to hit a puppy or a kitten or any other pet. I think we all agree that training a child should be as important, actually more important, than training a dog.