Spanking

[brandyII 9]

Well I did happen to list some reasons previously in a post and I'll list them again for you. These were found on Dr. Phil's website but if you were to search the internet you could find a lot of material on the matter not just from Dr. Phil but I knew he was an advocate for not spanking children.

You can search "The Natural Child Project" on spanking and it will bring up a whole lot of information that I don't think you're even ready for!

Cons of Spanking:

1. Long-term consequences of spanking can include increased aggressiveness, antisocial behavior, and delinquency.

2. Weaker associations for spanking such as a failure to learn right from wrong, subsequent criminal behavior, mental illness, and child or spouse abuse as adults have been suggested.

3. Physical punishment can send mixed messages to a child and reinforce aggressive behavior. When parents model aggressive behaviors by spanking, they reinforce the idea that physical aggression is the way to get what you want.

4. Spanking is associated with a poorer relationship between the parent and child. Children who were spanked feel less attached to their parents and less trusting of them. The more the child was spanked, the less close the parent/child relationship.

Spanking your kids may work to suppress his or her bad behavior temporarily, but it isn't a learning type of discipline. The message they get from being spanked is "I'm a bad kid," which doesn't help your child figure out what he or she did wrong -- or how to keep from doing it again!

There are also parenting classes which can teach you techniques other than spanking. But research the web there's so much information out there. Given the choice wouldn't you rather not hit your child and work it out in another way, be honest?

[brandyII 9]

Does a timeout really work if your 7 year old calls you a name? I need some help learning out to displine him. All I know is spanking or the threat of spanking.

I've been quite the typist today so why stop now! I'll give you the information from Dr. Phil's website but I know there are tons of books out there on other methods other than spanking. I asked my 24 year old today after first reading some of the responses on this thread if she knew if any of her friends were spanked. And she said flat out no, and I asked her how would she know, maybe she wasn't around and she said they would have told her. She still hangs with girls she's been with since kindergarten. I hope I did a good job typing!

These are from Dr. Phil's website:

FIVE STEPS TO DISCIPLINING YOUR KIDS

Do you need alternatives on how to get through to your children? Are you at the end of your rope? Dr. Phil offers Five Steps on How to Discipline Your Kids--without spanking.

1. Commit Yourself.

It's crucial that your child knows that you're going to do what you say you will. If you explain what a punishment will be, and then don't act on it, you will have less credibility the next time. Make a commitment to your child's discipline, and be consistent in your behavior toward them.

2. Be Realistic in Your Expectations of Your Child.

Don't ask you child to do anything he/she cannot do. Make sure that what you are asking of your child is a behavior within his or her reach -- if it's not, your child will get frustrated and be less likely to listen to you in the future.

3. Define Your Child's Currency.

Find out what your child values -- it could be a toy, a particular activity, or even a privilege like getting to stay awake to a particular hour. Dr. Phil explains: "If you control the currency, you control the behavior that currency depends on." Once you understand what your child values, you can withdraw positive things (taking away the toy) or introduce negative tings (making them take a time-out) as a form of discipline.

4. Give Your Children Predictable Consequences.

It's important for your child to understand that the same result will come from the same behavior. Make your child feel like he/she has control over their life. If your child behaves in "Way A." they need to be sure that they will always get "Consequence B." If he/she can count on the rules staying the same, they're more likely to abide by them.

5. Use Child-Level Logic.

Explain your values in terms your child can understand. Take the time to explain the reasons behind why you are asking he/she to behave in certain ways - if your child understands the kinds of behavior you'd like them to avoid, they're more likely to apply that reasoning to different situations, instead of learning to stop one behavior at a time.

There you go, I'm not trying to be condescending, really I'm not. I know this is my opinion and as I said before I'm probably the minority, well am the minority, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong, it's different and could be right who knows? I know raising kids is not the easiest thing in the world, trust me, I know but I also hate to see people spanking when it's really not necessary. Thanks brandyII:smile:

Who knows maybe I'm annoying like this because I was spanked:biggrin:

[candy8360 0]

Ah, all the answers to child rearing that we have always been lacking...

[brandyII 9]

Ah, all the answers to child rearing that we have always been lacking...

Julie asked for some and I listed some info from a professional and suggested she search out some books and other materials on other methods to use other than spanking. I know spanking is a much easier solution when it comes to discipline but sometimes you have to sit back and look at the whole picture.:rolleyes2:

[Boo Boo Kitty 3]

Well I did happen to list some reasons previously in a post and I'll list them again for you. These were found on Dr. Phil's website but if you were to search the internet you could find a lot of material on the matter not just from Dr. Phil but I knew he was an advocate for not spanking children.

You can search "The Natural Child Project" on spanking and it will bring up a whole lot of information that I don't think you're even ready for!

Cons of Spanking:

1. Long-term consequences of spanking can include increased aggressiveness, antisocial behavior, and delinquency.

2. Weaker associations for spanking such as a failure to learn right from wrong, subsequent criminal behavior, mental illness, and child or spouse abuse as adults have been suggested.

3. Physical punishment can send mixed messages to a child and reinforce aggressive behavior. When parents model aggressive behaviors by spanking, they reinforce the idea that physical aggression is the way to get what you want.

4. Spanking is associated with a poorer relationship between the parent and child. Children who were spanked feel less attached to their parents and less trusting of them. The more the child was spanked, the less close the parent/child relationship.

Spanking your kids may work to suppress his or her bad behavior temporarily, but it isn't a learning type of discipline. The message they get from being spanked is "I'm a bad kid," which doesn't help your child figure out what he or she did wrong -- or how to keep from doing it again!

There are also parenting classes which can teach you techniques other than spanking. But research the web there's so much information out there. Given the choice wouldn't you rather not hit your child and work it out in another way, be honest?

I think there a reasons to spank and reasons to not. I spanked my daughter when she was 5 or so when she refused to stop running in the street. I had done time outs, talking to her, locking the doors, you name it--everything. Finally when she nearly caused an accident I spanked her. She had put her life in danger as well as others. I can tell you that she never did it again. There was no other choice.

I think it is easy to judge others without being in their shoes. As for Dr. Phil, I think he PHD should be revoked. Sorry, he is full of it.

[brandyII 9]

Well as I said before, I'm not Dr. Phil's biggest fan but I knew his opinions on the matter so I used some of his wisdom. I'm not going to argue it anymore because it's futile in my opinion.

We all come here from different backgrounds and types of families and when you've been raised in one of alcoholism/chaos/violence you tend to be more sensitive to it, brandyII.

[Boo Boo Kitty 3]

Well as I said before, I'm not Dr. Phil's biggest fan but I knew his opinions on the matter so I used some of his wisdom. I'm not going to argue it anymore because it's futile in my opinion.

We all come here from different backgrounds and types of families and when you've been raised in one of alcoholism/chaos/violence you tend to be more sensitive to it, brandyII.

I agree. All I am saying is there is a HUGE HUGE difference in spanking once in awhile and abuse. They are not the same thing. I commend those who can raise children with never having to spank, but why try to be idealistic and say what works for one child works for another?

[brandyII 9]

There are reasons why people change from spanking households to non-spanking households. When you're raised in a violent home and found it to be very stressful and disturbing the last thing you want to do is raise your "babies" in that same type of atmosphere. I think in some ways I'm super sensitive to it so you'll have to forgive me. I just could never spank my kids. It's not that I was beaten by any means but I just like the peacefulness that our home has. Does that make sense? I'm trying to be honest about it. brandyII.

[Lunabeane 2]

Dr. Phil is a detriment to society and I resent Oprah for unleashing him and giving him a voice.

I feel that there is a difference between spanking and beating/abuse. I've spanked my son twice in 7 years...barely a tap on his tush. It hurt his heart more than his tushy but it made me feel terrible. The behavior that he was exhibiting stopped and we went back to our normal lives. He's no worse for wear but it's not something that I see myself doing in the future as he's a pretty reasonable kid...as far as 7 year olds go.

[*susan* 1,709]

I agree that there is a definite difference between spanking and abuse. I don't consider people who spank their children to be abusers at all. I just believe everyone has different ways of parenting. Like I said, when I got spanked, I just thought about how I had to make sure not to get caught next time and that it wasn't fair that my parents got to do that just because they were bigger than me.

Perhaps I am just very lucky that my kids responded so well to other methods. If not, I don't know what I may or may have not done.

[BJean 16]

One thing that I've observed while reading this thread is that people who are spankers seem to think that all the kids who misbehave or act out or are obnoxious or in juvenile detention facilities are the ones who were not "disciplined" and only "talked to". That's why I'm glad that Brandy posted Dr. Phil's advice. There are forms of discipline that work, and work extremely well, that have absolutely nothing to do with corporal punishment.

Dr. Phil is a brilliant man, although somewhat obnoxious himself sometimes. He certainly does know about human behavior and has had a very successful career because of his ability to decipher human behavior. You may not enjoy his personality and you may not like how he says something, but you can't argue with his success and his very real knowledge of human behavior.

If you feel that you must spank your child because they have not responded to your voice, then you are probably not using your voice and your intellect in the most effective way. It takes a lot of thought, patience and respect for a parent to not hit a child when the child has done something wrong repeatedly and will not stop when they are told to. But spanking is not the best consequence if you are truly trying to teach your child a lesson. It is a very quick way to shut them down, that we probably all agree on.

But your goal as a parent/teacher/protector should be to give the message to your child that you respect and love them and that he or she is an extremely important human being. Even though they are having a melt down for one reason or other, they need to know that you are the person who is there to help them with the problem that is causing the misbehavior. They need to know that they can depend on you when they are tired, angry, frustrated, hungry, scared and all the other emotions kids have, even at those times when you are preoccupied with your own emotions or tasks.

The first step is for you to figure out what is really going on. You cannot correct a child if you do not understand what caused the behavior. Yeah, I know what you're thinking... if your child is acting out in a store you sure don't have enough time to stop, analyze and communicate with your child in order to determine how to deal with his/her problem. But in fact, it is your job to do just that.

The reality is that, for most parents who spank, they are frustrated and sometimes perplexed at their child's behavior and they just need for the behavior to stop so they can do whatever they feel is more important at that particular time.

You can argue all you want about the kind planning and forethought that goes into the spankings you administer, but MOST spankings are not carried out in that manner.

That is why a clerk in a store is a bit outraged when they see a parent hit a child. They know that if a parent is angry enough to hit their child in public, there is a good chance that when they have the child in private and they are angry and frustrated, they are likely to be even more physically harmful to the child.

That is why we're having this discussion. Not because most people use good judgement when they spank their kids. It is because spankings happen most often when people are angry and frustrated at their child for doing something repeatedly that they've been told not to do. You can justify spanking your child until the day is long, but we all know why we're having this discussion.

If you have the utmost respect for your children and you take your role of parenting as seriously as you would any job, I believe that you would work very hard to understand your child and what causes their misbehavior, like Dr. Phil suggested, and solve the problem of rule breaking in a non-corporal punishment way that actually teaches a lesson to the child and instills self-respect and self-confidence instead of fear.

Of course all of this is IMHO. :biggrin:

[brandyII 9]

Wow BJean,

You were able to express it in a way I wish I could.

That was beautifully written, insightful and extremely sincere!!!!

Thanks brandyII.

[Yaherd 0]

I got spanked and it made me who I am today.. remember there is a difference between spanking and beating... spankings are needed at times.. never beatings

[MeatballsMom 0]

Okay, let us clarify one thing--first and foremost: How can anyone state another person state of mind when they are spanking a child? I am pretty sure that no one can attest to a parents state of mind when they are SPANKING not beating their child.

My response is to this: "The reality is that, for most parents who spank, they are frustrated and sometimes perplexed at their child's behavior and they just need for the behavior to stop so they can do whatever they feel is more important at that particular time."

What is more important? Addressing the child's behavior right then and there is not important? If you were to ask any behavioral psychologist/psychiatrist, they will tell you that the response to a child's behavior, whether good or bad, should be right then and there--generally within 45 seconds to 1 minute. If not, the point of doing either is generally waister for TRUE and immediate results and affectiveness.

You can argue all you want about the kind planning and forethought that goes into the spankings you administer, but MOST spankings are not carried out in that manner.

That is why a clerk in a store is a bit outraged when they see a parent hit a child. They know that if a parent is angry enough to hit their child in public, there is a good chance that when they have the child in private and they are angry and frustrated, they are likely to be even more physically harmful to the child.

That is why we're having this discussion. Not because most people use good judgement when they spank their kids.

It is because spankings happen most often when people are angry and frustrated at their child for doing something repeatedly that they've been told not to do. You can justify spanking your child until the day is long, but we all know why we're having this discussion."

Honestly, how do you know the parent is angry? Because they are spanking their child? I am quite intrigued an await your answer as I would love to know how you know a parents train of thought and emotional status while spanking their child.

I can honestly say that the less than HANDFUL of times I spanked my children, and I classify spanking them on their hand as a spanking, two were in the store and I assure you I was NOT angry. Hate to break it to you, but my son was warned the last time he took something from the store he would get a spanking. Talking and taking things away from him the first time he did it did not work, therefore I was left with this option.

For someone who wants to speak about behavioral psychology, the first thing you should remember is that punishment and reward is to be automatic, NOT when you get home after shopping or whatever it is that you are doing BECAUSE it loses its purpose, its value.

I can assure you this much, that as far as i know of, my son has never taken anything from anyone (except for his sister) since that day in Toys R Us--that was three years ago.

I cannot say for sure it was the spanking, maybe the embarassment of confronting him in the store and making him apologize to the clerk. What I do know is that he has not done it since.

I am curious though, how do you know that the clerk is angry and thinking that the parent must be one hell of a "beater" when they are at home? Those are some awesome accusation and assumptions on your part. I know that the clerk at Toys R Us was not shocked I spanked him on the hand. The lady was behind me and again, I dare anyone to tell me how to raise my child.

I do not look at my children like property, but rather as my responsaiblity to raise them the best way I know how. I choose not to conform to societies most recent ideological beliefs, or rather what the heck may be PC for the time.

I also dare not be that presumptous when I make the statement that ALL children in trouble or in jail were not disciplined appropriately, I know better. There are MANY children in juvenile lock up because they were BEATEN, not spanked.

For the comment that children who are spanked are more likely to be aggressive---hmmmmmmmm, was that info taken from Dr. Phil too? LOL......Sorry, but he is a liar, and ass, a bully and a thief.

Why a thief? Because he HIGHJACKED ALL of his info from world reknown psychiatrist whom spent their life DOING ACTUAL WORK. All he has done was taken their work, basterdized it so that it would look COOL on TV.

I agree, shame on Oprah because he is an idiot. Besides, his life and family is wonderful that he can pass judgements on others? Hmmmm....Who was it that posted something about "they will let anyone write books, including idiots? Hmmmmmm.......Dr. Phil comes to mind. He is like Barack Obama and George Bush, he could not give a speech or write anything unless someone else wrote it for him.

I am just dumbfounded that ANYONE would quote Dr. Phil; Why, because he was on Oprah? LOL.....wow, role models and advice coming from the TV--this is what our society is coming too--- how impressive.

Please note, so that my words are NOT misconstrued or taken out of context AGAIN, I am not angry as there is nothing on line that would ever make me angry except for child molesters and those whom prey on the elderly. I rather enjoy a good debate.

As for the countries that are so awesome because they made spanking against the law----"Because so many parents spank their children and the percentage has remained high over the years, most consider spanking to be a cultural norm in the United States. In fact, according to studies in Britain, Canada, China, Israel, Italy, Kenya, Korea, South Africa, and the West Indies, most parents in most countries around the world spank their children at least occasionally. Finland, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Cyprus, Latvia, and Croatia"

Now, there Are 195 Countries in the World, ONLY eighteen---10.8%-- have outlawed spanking (According to Thomas Nazario, a law professor at the University of San Francisco, Finland, Norway, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia, Latvia, United Kingdom, Denmark, Israel, Germany, Greece, Portugal, Sweden, Bulgaria, Iceland, Romania, Ukraine, and Hungary have outright bans against corporal punishment of children.). "Several studies have been done in Sweden to attempt to determine the impact of the ban on behavior and attitudes in that country. Some critics of the ban in Sweden point out that Sweden actually showed an increase in the child abuse rate after the law was enacted (e.g., Larzelere and Johnson 1999; Rosellini 1998). Some also suggest that most of the countries that have outlawed spanking are considered permissive in social areas, unlike the United States. As a result, they do not believe the United States should consider a law against corporal punishment."

Well...it appears that I have written quite a bit, therefore I will post for now, HOWEVER....please do not be soo presumptous when pointing out a parents state of mind or even how a clerk may think or their assumptions as not a single person on this earth as that ability. If they do, I would love to meet them.

[brandyII 9]

Red is such an angry color:tt2: