Spanking

[BJean 16]

It probably doesn't matter. Men often think they have all the answers. Besides many of them like to tell women what to do. And a lot of them like to invoke the "power of God" to give themselves some credibility. Humph! Some men are brilliant, I will admit that. But when they start giving advice and telling everyone else what to do, especially when they have no practical experience, my B.S. antenna comes out.

A Priest who tells a woman she must forgive a husband who has beaten her because her marriage vows are sacred also comes to mind.

[brandyII 9]

Devana and BJean,

These are just the types of people that have views on child rearing that really, really, really scare me. Just because you put out a book does not mean it's full of knowledge. Obviously these are some "crazy ass peeps"!:cool2:

[parrot0927 0]

I completely agree. Once was enough for me to learn and once was enough for my 3 kids. There is a line between spanking and beating. The government needs to stay out of families business and put God back in the schools. USA was founded on the principals of the Bible and God. People need to remember this.

[Marimaru 7]

Just remember "spanker/hitter/smacker" parents that these children that you choose to discipline in this manner will be the same children that will may have to make the decision one day to take you off life support (a little early), put you in a cheap nursing home versus a nice one or take you into their nice "loving:confused:" homes.:lol:brandyII

This doesn't make any sense to me. My mother spanked me (and used a wooden spoon, because the "use an object other than your hand" belief was big), and our relationship is fine. The rocky part of my childhood that I had to get over had nothing to do with being spanked and had everything to do with emotional issues. The relationship I have with her has always been close, even when I was a kid. She has since admitted that if she had to do it over again, she wouldn't use a spoon, though she probably still would have swatted us. And my sisters and I have agreed never to put her in a home.

I'm glad you know the difference between abuse and spanking but I feel it hitting a child is abuse. I've been in the situation where out of five children the three older boys being spanked by my father none of which would have anything to do with him while he was at a point where he needed that extra assistance. I was always spanked by my mother and I was the only one willing to fly down and take care of my dying father. I'm so glad you know that your children love you even though you hit them. I know my father was hit by his father and I've learned there are more intelligent ways of dealing with children. There's always positive reinforcement versus negative!!!!!:cool2:

Positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement are not mutually exclusive. Giving positive reinforcement when a child does something good, doesn't mean you don't give them consequences if they do something wrong.

I agree also that how a child is punished should depend on who the child is as well. I probably would have ended up the same person I am, spanked or not (none of the spankings particularly stand out in my min), but I know my younger sister was spanked because she did things that she'd been talked to about, grounded for etc, repeatedly and she just wouldn't listen.

I'm not sure how to explain exactly how spanking is done *not* in anger, since you seem to refuse to believe it's possible. The spanking is a decided upon consequence that is then carried out. It's a calm thing, you know it's coming, and your parent isn't yelling at you. Once it's over, that's it, the consequence is over, you hug and move on.

[brandyII 9]

I completely agree. Once was enough for me to learn and once was enough for my 3 kids. There is a line between spanking and beating. The government needs to stay out of families business and put God back in the schools. USA was founded on the principals of the Bible and God. People need to remember this.

You must be new to this site:lol: I believe Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were Atheists.

[Susanbee 0]

Beating and spanking are quit different....if one doesn't know that they shouldn't be doing either of them.....

[brandyII 9]

This doesn't make any sense to me. My mother spanked me (and used a wooden spoon, because the "use an object other than your hand" belief was big), and our relationship is fine. The rocky part of my childhood that I had to get over had nothing to do with being spanked and had everything to do with emotional issues. The relationship I have with her has always been close, even when I was a kid. She has since admitted that if she had to do it over again, she wouldn't use a spoon, though she probably still would have swatted us. And my sisters and I have agreed never to put her in a home.

Positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement are not mutually exclusive. Giving positive reinforcement when a child does something good, doesn't mean you don't give them consequences if they do something wrong.

I agree also that how a child is punished should depend on who the child is as well. I probably would have ended up the same person I am, spanked or not (none of the spankings particularly stand out in my min), but I know my younger sister was spanked because she did things that she'd been talked to about, grounded for etc, repeatedly and she just wouldn't listen.

I'm not sure how to explain exactly how spanking is done *not* in anger, since you seem to refuse to believe it's possible. The spanking is a decided upon consequence that is then carried out. It's a calm thing, you know it's coming, and your parent isn't yelling at you. Once it's over, that's it, the consequence is over, you hug and move on.

My mother used to spank using her hand until once day my brother decided to put a plate in his pants:lol:

After doing some damage to her hand I believe my mother chose the hairbrush for "us" girls and my father used "the belt" for the boys.

Does anyone remember an old record of Bill Cosby when he spoke of his father beating them with the belt. It was pretty funny, I remember it as "the belt with HOOKS on it" or something like that.

Go ahead beat your kids, they're your property:eek:

[MeatballsMom 0]

Okay.......I am one of those from the South, Houston, Texas. My father beat the ever living hell out of me, one that the child abuse law should have been designed for. I have tried all means of discipline with my children, whom are 8 & 9 years of age, and sometimes, the spankings are a must.

Sometimes trying to sit them down and say don't do it, grounding, taking away "stuff", just does not cut it.

I am not saying haul off and beat the child with a branch, shoe, hanger ("Mommy Dearest", for those of you whom have seen the movie you know what I mean), but good grief children now days do not understand the consequences of their own behaviors.

As a mother and former police office, I am not necessarily shocked, but just dumbfounded at those whom advocate against spanking as a discipline when the juvenile crime rate, either minor or major crimes, is through the roof.

Kids cursing their parents and not adhereing to rules because the consequences are minimal. What, take their ipod away? LOL.......that stops being effective around what, 13yrs of age, because they will either find somethign else to do or, and yes I have seen this, look you in the face and take the ipod and keep listening to it because they know you are not going to do anything about it.

Not all children require physical discpline, but there are plenty of children whom talking to and grounding just does not cut it.

Here is what I had to say to a lady in Toys R Us a few years back when my son picked up a toy at the register and put it in his pocket, right in front of me. Now, keep in mind that just a few weeks prior he did it at the grocery store with some candy and was verbally discplined right then-and-there along with a long talk in the car on the way home.

I told him to take the toy out of his pocket, give it to me, I spanked his hand 3 times and told him to apology to the cashier for stealing from the store. The lady behind me gasped rather loudly when I spanked him on the HAND and said something along the lines of how I should not BEAT my child.

Spanked him on the hand is beating? Really?

After my son apologized to the cashier, I looked at the lady and explained as calmly as I could the following:

Ma'am, the last time I checked this is my child and I am responsible for him, however if you would like, I will keep letting him steal and merely talk to him like I did last month when he did the same thing, and when he turns 13 yrs of age and is breaking into your home and stealing from you or carjacking you at gun point, do NOT come yelling and crying to me that I do not discpline him enough.

She looked perplexed, then she apologized and told me she never looked at it that way. Keep in mind, I was still a police office at that time and in uniform. Therefore, not sure if she thought I was saying that as a cop or a mom, either way it was none of her business.

I am sure if I were a little less heated, I would have also pointed out that it is the continual stealing of children and the lack of consequences for their behaviors that drive the prices in stores through the roof as well. But, I think I made my point.

I do believe there are many peopel whom take this to the extreme, but I do NOT believe it is the governments business to get into the matter of parents discipling their children, within reason.

There is a law, at least in Texas, where physical discpline may take place on the bottom or the backs of hands and nothing else, I believe, pending there are no marks left on the child.

I am a psychology major working on my PhD and I will say this much-pyschological torment for children whom are physically disciplined within reason is NOT as prevalent as those whom are against pysical discipline like to make it out to be.

It is the indivdiuals whom deem it necessary to beat the hell out of their children or beat them on a daily basis that is the problem.

I do not think this is the first and foremost way a parent should discipline a child, but rather a means of assisting when all other recourse fails.

My only concern are the busy bodies whom have nothing else better to do with their time than to criticize me and others for trying to help our children become more productive citizen as well as ones that the rest of society does not have to support among the outstanding statistical criminal element we have today.

[brandyII 9]

Meatballsmom,

I understand now, thanks, spanking your kids is the right thing to do! Gee, if only I could go back in time......

[MeatballsMom 0]

Meatballsmom,

I understand now, thanks, spanking your kids is the right thing to do! Gee, if only I could go back in time......

Brandy....that is not what I said. I believe what I said was that you need to leave this up to the parent. The snide comments and/or remarks are of course your opinion of the subject, but you cannot tell me that with the criminal element that society is subjected to among the juveniles in this country, that not once does someone NOT ask where in the hell are the parents and why are they not raising their children right.

I do NOT advocate beating the hell out of children and also say that spankings should be a last resort, but there are some, in fact many children that firm talking to's and the other lines of punishment just do NOT work.

You have the right to raise yoru children as you see fit just like the next parent, but it seems a bit hypocritical for someone to condemn another for their parenting skills if one is NOT PERFECT.

Again, not advocating spankings, but they are a form a punishment that for some children are necessary.

Also, I do personally do not think for one minute that most parents whom use physical discipline as a tool to help raise their children MINIMALLY look at their children as property either. I know I do not, therefore how presumptous with that comment in a previous posting!

[brandyII 9]

Brandy....that is not what I said. I believe what I said was that you need to leave this up to the parent. The snide comments and/or remarks are of course your opinion of the subject, but you cannot tell me that with the criminal element that society is subjected to among the juveniles in this country, that not once does someone NOT ask where in the hell are the parents and why are they not raising their children right.

I do NOT advocate beating the hell out of children and also say that spankings should be a last resort, but there are some, in fact many children that firm talking to's and the other lines of punishment just do NOT work.

You have the right to raise yoru children as you see fit just like the next parent, but it seems a bit hypocritical for someone to condemn another for their parenting skills if one is NOT PERFECT.

Again, not advocating spankings, but they are a form a punishment that for some children are necessary.

Also, I do personally do not think for one minute that most parents whom use physical discipline as a tool to help raise their children MINIMALLY look at their children as property either. I know I do not, therefore how presumptous with that comment in a previous posting!

Where are the statistics that all the people in prison were never beaten or disciplined by their parents? How do you know they weren't raised right. You have a child who you stated was stealing right before your eyes yet you are a corrections officer? I'm confused. I have a brother who works in maximum security prison as a counselor, I'll have to talk to him about this topic and get back to you afterwards. I don't beat/hit my animals and never beat/hit/spanked my children and they are now fine adults. I don't know why they're not in prison but they aren't.

[MeatballsMom 0]

Where are the statistics that all the people in prison were never beaten or disciplined by their parents? How do you know they weren't raised right. You have a child who you stated was stealing right before your eyes yet you are a corrections officer? I'm confused. I have a brother who works in maximum security prison as a counselor, I'll have to talk to him about this topic and get back to you afterwards. I don't beat/hit my animals and never beat/hit/spanked my children and they are now fine adults. I don't know why they're not in prison but they aren't.

Again, not what I said!!!!!!

I am a former POLICE OFFICER, not a jailer. I did not say these juveniles in jail were NOT raised right. I believe what I said was that you could not tell me that not ONE person did not bitch and moan about some child committing a crime and NOT say where the hell are their parents. I hear that a lot, especially when I was a cop. Kids as young as 11 years of age being arrested for major offenses and adults wanting to know where the hell are their parents and why aren't they raising them right.

Yes, my son picked up a toy and put it in his pocket at the ripe old age of 6yrs. I discplined him according to how I felt he needed to be disciplined. I do not consult other parents as to how I raise and discipline my children because quite frankly it is none of their business.

Again, I do not advocate beating the hell out of children either. Like another post, there is a HUGE difference between spanking a child for discipline and beating the hell out of them.

I also said that NOT ALL children need to be physically disciplined, but there are plenty of children whom do.

Good for you that your children did not need to be spanked, and I never said anything about beating animals so why that rant was thrown in there, well fruitless!!

Again, I did not say that ALL people whom are in prison were not disciplined or beaten. I will have to go back and read my post, but I am pretty sure I did not say that. I belive what I said was again, people argue about where are the parents of these children whom are out committing crimes. That you I bet you could not find me one person who does NOT say that.

Again, please do not miscontrue or doctor up what I am saying to help you with your debate. I will try to make my point more clear for you next time so long as you stop cutting and pasting my comments to fit your agenda.:cool2:

[MeatballsMom 0]

I see this in my great nephews. My niece does not believe in spanking them, as that is abuse, but she has said horrid, mean, dregrading things to those boys----just getting her point across! Give me a break! 20 years from now, they would not remember a quick pop on the butt (if it were kept to that) but the words that they were a disappointment, or that they were stupid or they would not keep getting in the same trouble again, and again--they will remember FOREVER!

Abuse comes in many, many forms----and an abuser will simply move to another form if it is illegal to spank a child. They likely use more than one kind now.

After years of being abused, and working with other women who were abused---the physical is the easiest to get past. Yep I have scars---but it is not them that can cause you to lie awake at night and wonder----it is the words---the emotional abuse. You lay there wondering if on some level you really ARE that bad, and question everything. When the physical is over, it is over.

I am not promoting spanking-----just saying as Lulu did above---there are worse things a parent can do than pop a child on the butt for misbehaviour.....

Kat

Kat, I could not agree with you more. The verball/psychological abuse never goes away. Again, I do not advocate beating the hell out of children as my father went waaayyyyyyyy overboard with spanking me as a child. I think I have spanked both of my children less than a handful and it was for very major things that talking to them and grounding them just did not work.

My mother was very verbally abusive, she and I did not nor do we now get along. It is very sad, to a point, but when your own parent degrades you for nothing more than making herself feel better about herself, you learn even at a young age of 12/13 yrs that one day you can leave and not have to suffer the psychological torment that your own mother bestows on you.

I was wrong, because that psychological torture has never gone away. It follows you everwhere as it has somehow engrained itself into your psyche as the type of person you are, even though deep down you pray you are not.

I have read too many case studies and listened to too many sessions of adults, namely women, who were verbally abused as children by the very people they call their parents. That even today they have a very hard time looking at themselves as a good person or even thinking they deserve something nice for themselves.

[candy8360 0]

meatballs mom, there is NOTHING wrong with what you said. Brandy, you are fortunate that your children turned out okay. But, its time to mind your own business and let others take responsbility for how they choose to raise their own children. I knew there was a reason I quit posting on this thread, because of all the nosy busybodies who have no idea what they are talking about!!!!!

[brandyII 9]

Well to quote Steve Martin "Well Excuuuuuse Me!"

This was a thread about spanking was it not? Are we not aloud to give our opinions? Just because my opinion happens to be different does that mean I'm not allowed to give it? I may be the minority here but I still have the right to voice my opinion just as everyone else does.

I've gotten plenty of opinions from people I did not like but this is the LBT Rants and Raves section on Spanking and so you have to expect a bit of debate.

I think there are laws out there to protect children because unfortunately people have violated their own children or other people's children. So when it comes down to it your children have rights and one day your right to discipline through spanking maybe taken away from you as it has been in other places so don't be surprised.

I firmly believe there are ways of disciplining a child without physically hitting them or emotionally abusing them.

I don't expect to change everyone's mind on the matter but just to enlighten a bit. I'm not the biggest Dr. Phil fan but I'll leave you with some Cons of Spanking he has listed on his website for you to take into consideration.

Cons of Spanking:

1. Long-term consequences of spanking can include increased aggressiveness, antisocial behavior, and delinquency.

2. Weaker associations for spanking such as a failure to learn right from wrong, subsequent criminal behavior, mental illness, and child or spouse abuse as adults have been suggested.

3. Physical punishment can send mixed messages to a child and reinforce aggressive behavior. When parents model aggressive behaviors by spanking, they reinforce the idea that physical aggression is the way to get what you want.

4. Spanking is associated with a poorer relationship between the parent and child. Children who were spanked feel less attached to their parents and less trusting of them. The more the child was spanked, the less close the parent/child relationship.

Spanking your kids may work to suppress his or her bad behavior temporarily, but it isn't a learning type of discipline. The message they get from being spanked is "I'm a bad kid," which doesn't help your child figure out what he or she did wrong -- or how to keep from doing it again!

Wise remarks from a Texan, brandyII:smile: