Spanking

[BJean 16]

oooh I find this very interesting, green. I have a middle sibling who took charge of my Dad and did those things you've described. Now I find it very difficult to 1) forgive her, and 2) ever want to see her again.

[green 6]

oooh I find this very interesting, green. I have a middle sibling who took charge of my Dad and did those things you've described. Now I find it very difficult to 1) forgive her, and 2) ever want to see her again.

Yes, I must admit that I found myself dealing with the outrageous shock of self-recognition while reading the news coverage of this research. You see, I had been kind of neglectful of both parents when they became mouldies, especially when compared to many of my friends and I sure had been feeling kind of lousy about this lack of loving filial behaviour although I was certainly powerless to mend my ways no matter however much I tried at the time.

But my parents had been quite careless of me when I was a child. Indeed they went so far as to ship me off to a boarding school against my will when I was 10 and they gave my bedroom to one of the two younger brothers. I was left with a kind of a provisional crib during my visits home for a number of years until they finally felt too, too guilty about the fact that their only daughter didn't have her own bedroom. To put this in perspective you must understand that my aunt, who was living with us, had her own bedroom and my dad had his office/cigar room at this time.

In light of this study you might want to look again at your sibling's treatment of her parent. This does not mean that you need like her nor even forgive her but only that you may find it an interesting exercise to examine her behaviour within the framework of the child-parent dynamic.

[BJean 16]

Point well taken, green. I can remember one fight she had with my father before school when he threatened her with the hot Iron she was using to press her blouse.

Actually I can forgive her. I just haven't had any reason to yet. I'm not sure why I would ever want to see her again. She can be extremely harsh and hateful.

We definitely saw both of our parents in different ways. I never argued with them or gave them any trouble whatsoever. She was always fighting them about something. She was, btw, always very overweight. I have no idea if she suffered discrimination in the family because of that or if she was so unhappy that she ate to console herself. Whatever the reason things were so rough for her, it really isn't surprising that when my mom became ill, she did nothing to help her. And when she took over my dad, it was to gain control over him and his estate (as insignificant as it may have been).

My heart goes out to you green. I just cannot imagine why you were treated as you were. If I were you, I'd probably be hell bent on proving myself to the world. And not just a little angry. You seem like a marvelous person who is very intelligent and enjoys learning about everything in life. Short version... you're tres' cool!

[green 6]

Family dynamics are always complicated and dysfunctional family dynamics even more so. My father's mother died when he was an infant and my mother's father died when she was 6. They grew up in families without opposite sex role models. In the case of my father, he grew up poor in an anti-Semitic country, Poland. He was looked after by the older kids in the family. The family was grindingly poor and he was often beaten by his family and bullied by the Gentile schoolkids.

My grandmother much preferred my mother's younger sister. She grew to be very competitive with my mother as my mum began to grow up. It is interesting to note that I was exiled to boarding school as soon as I began showing signs of puberty.

As for my father, he could be a real charmer when he was in a good mood, and he was both generous and very intelligent. Both my parents were extremely charming individuals and very intelligent. But he was often psychologically abusive, and a real emotional bully. We all lived in fear of his moods.

I guess the sins of the fathers really are visited on the children, eh. I am quite certain that I would have made a poor parent myself.

[PhotoEgor 0]

I too raised my kids with an occassional swat on the backside. My wife discussed discipline when we found out we were expecting our first child. We agreed on several things and have never deviated from them.

1. Kids have to be taught right from wrong. If we let nature take it's course, then our children are little better off than animals living by "survival of the fitest" type of rule.

2. discipline would begin early and be commiserate with the level of understanding of the child. That is a toddler reaching for something he shouldn't was told no, then swatted on the hand at the 2nd attempt. As the kids got older, we moved up to a swat on the backside when needed.

3. We did not discipline our children for being children. A tired or hungry infant or toddler doesn't understand that what they are doing might be misbehavior. Act on the cause of the problem, not the behavior itself.

4. We never disagreed about discipline in front of the kids. We would tell them we would discuss it in private and then implement an appropriate action. This also meant that if only 1 parent was present, the other could not alter the judgement of the other. Certainly prevented the 4 kids from trying to play us one against another. Only had 1 time when it backfired so to speak, and the daughter involved still speaks about it to her friends.

5. Creative discipline works way better than any beating. We frequently had our kids stamp their feet or spank themselves in public and I don't think I've found a more effective way to discipline. The child is embarassed at drawing attention to their wrongdoing and at least once our action drew applause from the people in the store.

We have 4 children. A boy now 30, 1 girl that is 28, and twin girls that are now 25. None are involved with the law. All are living away from home and able to support themselves by and large. They may not have grown up to be exactly what we expected, but they are all good peple. The 3 girls still go to church with us as often as possible, almost every week. The reason our son doesn't got to church with us is that he lives in another state. Perfect? no, but we are very blessed to have them.

I don't even begin to understand how a state can legislate childrearing anymore than it can legislate morality.

gk

[MacMadame 81]

I think spanking is lazy parenting. It teaches kids that "might makes right" and it doesn't teach them anything about why you don't approve of the behavior or what they should be doing instead.

It's a lot more work to discipline without violence -- to come up with punishments that emphasize the natural consequences of the bad behavior -- but it's well worth it in the long run IMO.

[WestCoastFatGuy 3]

Baloney. My kids could process the connection between one action and another at about 6 months. That's when I taught them sign language, to sign "please" and "thank you" and all sorts of other things. They processed connections quite fine, thankyouverymuch. They were quite capable of learning that an action can lead to a consequence even at that young age -- to get out of your high chair requires your signing "down" and then "please".

Excellent Excellent response and example. IMHO there are too many people who are entrusted to protect kids who are woefully uninformed and under-educated. I know that it is not politically-correct to say and there are many who will "jump down my throat" for doing so... but the truth is the truth. The other truth is that we will never be able to get truly qualified individuals on a large-scale for these positions unless we begin to pay them enough to make it worth it. The high cost of education and the on-going study required to develop responsible educated social workers and teachers necessitates that we come up with means to adequately compensate them.

[BJean 16]

WestCoast: I completely agree. What we should be enforcing is some kind of classes in parenting skills before children are born.

gadget: The signing thing is great! This has become very popular and it really works!

On the other hand, many parents are too quick to fly off the handle and hit their kids. Some parents are too lazy to use intelligent alternatives. All too often, parents who were beaten as children have become child abusers as adults.

Child abuse is way too common in the U.S. That's the "spanking" we need to stop. Education is the best way that I know to do that.

[plain 12]

Agree with PhotoEgor. How can the state legislate parental theory? Outlawing spanking because some abuse.....why not outlaw alcohol because some abuse?

[Jennie1976 1]

I have to admit that I didn't read all the posts, but I'm sure somewhere someone said that "it's a fine line between spanking and beating". To me, that is ridiculous! There is a HUGE line between spanking and beating!

Spanking is a tool...not something to be administered often, or in anger, or for minor offenses. Beatings are administered in anger, for any offense, and/or inappropriately hard. Spankings should be hard enough to hurt (or what's the point?), but beatings, to me, are HUGELY different.

A parent who can't tell the difference was not ready to be a parent in the first place.

[candy8360 0]

I haven't posted on this thread in a LONG time. I agree with you Jennie. What upsets me are these people who claim there is NEVER any reason for spanking. I clearly feel like there ARE certain circumstances where it can be neccessary, but agree, not to be done in anger and not to replace teaching your child right from wrong for lazy parents!

[newhope4me 0]

"Spare the rod, spoil the child" This phrase goes back to speaking of parents as shepherds for thier "flock", their children. Shepherds do not strike the sheep with the rod, but guide them.

I believe that "spanking" is so vague a phrase, everyone looks at it differently. Is spanking with a belt, a wooden spoon, flyswatter, open hand, over pants, over underclothes, on bare bottoms? Its something that can completely get out of hand. Parents usually spank out of anger, but anger is a secondary emotion. For example, your child runs out to the street, you grab them and spank them. Why? Because of the fear that they could have gotten run over, which scared you so much you react in anger and spank. If you remove them from the street, point out the size of a vehicle compared to the size of a child, and explain that it scared you because they could have been severly hurt, and then you've shown them out of love, not out of pain of why they should not run into the street.

We don't want our children to hit or be violent, but yet the most used discipline is through giving them pain by spanking them.

I have 3 kids, 2 boys (now grown) and a daughter (12). They grew up with a "time out chair" in the corner. When they were in trouble, they were in the chair for as many minutes as they were old. As they grew older, they lost prized possessions or were restricted from things they enjoyed.

I remember as a girl i was "spanked" with a belt from a car, left awful bruises on my legs. My stepfather wanted me to go to the pool like that so that everyone would see what an awful child i was. Is it any wonder i have issues now? "Spankings" is too vague a term. It should be better defined. I know in some areas it is illegal to use anything other than an open palm on the rear end, that i agree in, even though that is not what i personally used for discipline.

[snuffy65 1]

I personally think spanking is not the only option to discipline a child right. However I think parents should be able to spank them if they choose to.

For any people not sensetive to vulgor stuff south park has a nice episode on how to "train" your child. If you love the dog whisperer you will love this episode.

Please enter at your own risk:

Cartman vs. The Dog Whisperer - Clips - South Park Studios

[BJean 16]

newhope: Thanks for your really good, well thought out post!

[tapshoes 2]

As children, my siblings and I were punished, we were never spanked. Do you know what 'torture' it is (for a child) to sit next to the sibling with whom you have been having a rousing good fight, without touching, looking, or talking to each other, all under the watchful eye of my Dad? We called it getting the 'Hairy eyeball' - his eyes would squint, and we would just see this slit of ice blue eyes, and believe me, we sat. We sat still. We sat very still. It seemed the time was interminable, but in reality it was 5 minutes, 10 if we so much as looked askance at our foe.

Any offense meant time on the couch (no TV in the room) watched by the never-blinking Hairy eyeball (HE). That became a threat too - watch out, or you'll get the HE.

At his funeral, my sibs and I chatted about it, and all agreed, HE worked. We were never hit (with hands or belts or anything else) but we were disciplined. The children of us have had the same treatment - you are removed from the situation, isolated, quieted and observed.

Does the state have the right to interfere? At any point when a child is endangered we all have a responsibility to 'interfere' - to protect any child is part of being a responsible adult and caring human. But as for the role of government, I am conflicted. No one solution is guaranteed to satisfy all needs in any situation. Who is to say what is right or not?