"Religion of Peace" Update

green · December 6, 2007

Well, in my very long post I did comment that today in most of the Islamic countries "crazed fundamentalists rule." Much of my post had to do with the early history of Islam. Like yourself I do find the crazed, intolerant, and murderous behaviour of the Muslim mobs in the Islamic countries to be absolutely repellent. And I find this business of suicide bombing to be heinous and idiotic. And I find this business of issuing fatwahs over books which have never even been read moronic. I have never been a fan of mass hysteria, violence, and emotion replacing reason. Yes, you are right, modern Islam has acquired a very ugly face. And the voices of the moderates are unheard by us.

However, I do believe that the reasons for this are complicated and go beyond the nature of the religion itself. You will note that few adherents of Islam are European and most live in poor, largely underdeveloped countries, countries which were former colonies of European nations. Although the fundamentalist style of Islamic belief, Wahhabism, was born in Saudi Arabia two or three centuries ago its religious leaders have now found fertile ground for making converts in those Islamic countries where the people are poor and feel a sense of grievance and envy towards the rich and white west. This kind of fundamentalist Islam is viewed as marking a total rejection of and, indeed, hatred for all things European/American. This is why, I believe, it is so attractive to so many Muslims at this time. You might be inclined to point out that many of its leaders come from wealthy families and are educated people; this is true but they are idealists. Many Communists and Socialists also come from the most privileged sectors of society.

As for the little terrorists and suicide bombers which are hatched inside the Western world, from what I have read (you know Canada foiled our own little knot of juvie home grown terrorists a few years ago, eh) their parents are generally content to be new citizens and are not particularly devout. It is that certain children of immigrants may feel deracinated and in the case of Muslims, if they come in contact with fanatical groups, they will happily hop aboard the belief train. This gives them a sense of belonging and of being connected. It may also give them a sense of power and of joy in their ability to take revenge if they have seen their parents disrespected in their new home.

As for your very good question - where are the voices of the moderate Muslims - I have two ideas on this. It may be that these people are afraid to speak up against the bullies what with the bluddy fatwahs and all. It may also be that these people are speaking up inside their own communities, places where neither you nor I can hear them.

As for my street cred: I have been doing a bit of reading on Islam and I have travelled in a few Islamic countries. I also have a few good friends who are non-practising Muslims, one of which who is doing a doctorat on Islamic philosophy. I admit to having a difficult time dealing with Islam on an emotional level. I find much of their behaviour utterly gross. I guess the reason that I try to read up on issues and make these posts is because I have a horror of emotion overtaking reason.

Long post, eh. :phanvan

hijabigirl1973 · December 6, 2007

I've really tried to just stay out of this entire thread b/c well I'm Muslim and didn't feel like putting myself out there again but Derick this last comment seriously floored me. Islam really is about peace and I'm sorry that those who don't believe it cannot see past what the media presents. Believe it or not we do write letters, we do have marches against the ppl using Islam as an excuse to do what they please, and we do condemn any type of violence including any and all terrorist attacks that are being done supposedly in the name of Islam but are you going to believe that? Are you going to open your mind and look for these or just continue living to believe what the western media feeds you? Also believe it or not Muslims don't sit around all day thinking about how we are going to "force" Non Muslims to convert, that is absolutely absurd to even think. We have lives just like everyone else, we have families, we go to work, we raise our children, and teach them right from wrong, we have normal stress just like everyone else so to think that our objective in life is to "force" all Non Muslims to convert is absolutely crazy. We are here doing what everyone else is doing, living our lives and just trying to survive. The only difference is how we worship God. Derick I'm really sad to see that you think all Muslims should be killed, I hope I never run into someone with this type of mentality b/c I've never felt that much hate coming from someone in my life. I'm sorry that you think we are all bad and we are all just out to get each and everyone that isn't a Muslim. I'm sorry that the men who try to call themselves Muslim have made the rest of us out to be evil with them. There is nothing I can do about any of this, believe me if there was I would be doing it as we speak. All I can do is pray and hope that ppl learn that Islam is not bad, Islam is not what the media portrays. So in closing I'll never try to argue with anyone about Islam, I know the truth, I can see beyond CNN, Fox, and the rest of the networks out there. I hope that each and everyone of you out there including those who would like to see me and my family dead have a very blessed and wonderful life filled with family, love, and happiness.

green, my view is this, we in the western world are told that as a whole muslims/arabs/islamists/etc. are a peaceful people and should not be held accountable for a tiny, tiny segment of thier populations actions. Sound about right?
I am calling bullshit

we hear all the time in the news about marches calling for the beheading or death of some innocent person, death of a country, celebrating a death of a innocent person (generally a Jew or a citizen of a western country) or celebrating an attack upon a western country.

where is the majority? why are they not writing letters, staging protest marches, releasing statements condemning actions taken by "extremists"?

I don't think the majority exists! I think its a myth and that the majority of the muslim word wants to invade, kill and/or forcibly convert me and my family.

Show me evidence to the contrary, I don't care how old it is, or where it was held, show me the proof and I will reconsider my stances on the arab problem.

Until the so-called majority proves to me that they are on my side. Hell!! it does not even have to be a majority, just muslims who live in the western world (USA and Europe). Prove to me that your on my side and I will back you up as well.

Until this happens I will continue to do what I do and believe that we need to kill every muslim man, woman and child before they can do the same to us.

ELENATION · December 6, 2007

I've really tried to just stay out of this entire thread b/c well I'm Muslim and didn't feel like putting myself out there again but Derick this last comment seriously floored me. Islam really is about peace and I'm sorry that those who don't believe it cannot see past what the media presents. Believe it or not we do write letters, we do have marches against the ppl using Islam as an excuse to do what they please, and we do condemn any type of violence including any and all terrorist attacks that are being done supposedly in the name of Islam but are you going to believe that? Are you going to open your mind and look for these or just continue living to believe what the western media feeds you? Also believe it or not Muslims don't sit around all day thinking about how we are going to "force" Non Muslims to convert, that is absolutely absurd to even think. We have lives just like everyone else, we have families, we go to work, we raise our children, and teach them right from wrong, we have normal stress just like everyone else so to think that our objective in life is to "force" all Non Muslims to convert is absolutely crazy. We are here doing what everyone else is doing, living our lives and just trying to survive. The only difference is how we worship God. Derick I'm really sad to see that you think all Muslims should be killed, I hope I never run into someone with this type of mentality b/c I've never felt that much hate coming from someone in my life. I'm sorry that you think we are all bad and we are all just out to get each and everyone that isn't a Muslim. I'm sorry that the men who try to call themselves Muslim have made the rest of us out to be evil with them. There is nothing I can do about any of this, believe me if there was I would be doing it as we speak. All I can do is pray and hope that ppl learn that Islam is not bad, Islam is not what the media portrays. So in closing I'll never try to argue with anyone about Islam, I know the truth, I can see beyond CNN, Fox, and the rest of the networks out there. I hope that each and everyone of you out there including those who would like to see me and my family dead have a very blessed and wonderful life filled with family, love, and happiness.

I'm sorry that you have to feel this way, I truly am.. you do sound like a very nice person.

I will add that many people think that all Christians do is think of ways to convert others to Christianity... which is also not true..

I agree with what you said, I also agree with points that were brought up by others in this thread... it's complicated and brings out many emotions on people...

green · December 6, 2007

Very nice to hear your voice on this thread, Hijabigirl.

hijabigirl1973 · December 6, 2007

Thank you Elena and Green! I do also want to touch on the subject that started this thread. Just b/c a country is a Muslim dominate country doesn't mean they are following Sharia (Islamic Law). I used to think that until I met my husband who is from a Muslim country. Many many things each country practices is cultural and has nothing to do with Islam. Example would be the way women are treated in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, women are not to be treated that way in Islam. The situation with this teacher, well it's crazy but let me tell ya something, what they are doing is not following the Shari'a, they are making things up as they go. Most Muslim countries are that way, they have the Shari'a that they do follow just like all Muslims should but then they also have their own set of rules to follow that have nothing to do with Islam at all. My husband was born Muslim in Jordan and he even gets things mixed up, of course Non Muslims will as well b/c they don't know any better. Just b/c it comes from a Muslim country doesn't mean it's really Islam.

DerickM · December 6, 2007

I've really tried to just stay out of this entire thread b/c well I'm Muslim and didn't feel like putting myself out there again but Derick this last comment seriously floored me. Islam really is about peace and I'm sorry that those who don't believe it cannot see past what the media presents. Believe it or not we do write letters, we do have marches against the ppl using Islam as an excuse to do what they please, and we do condemn any type of violence including any and all terrorist attacks that are being done supposedly in the name of Islam but are you going to believe that? Are you going to open your mind and look for these or just continue living to believe what the western media feeds you? Also believe it or not Muslims don't sit around all day thinking about how we are going to "force" Non Muslims to convert, that is absolutely absurd to even think. We have lives just like everyone else, we have families, we go to work, we raise our children, and teach them right from wrong, we have normal stress just like everyone else so to think that our objective in life is to "force" all Non Muslims to convert is absolutely crazy. We are here doing what everyone else is doing, living our lives and just trying to survive. The only difference is how we worship God. Derick I'm really sad to see that you think all Muslims should be killed, I hope I never run into someone with this type of mentality b/c I've never felt that much hate coming from someone in my life. I'm sorry that you think we are all bad and we are all just out to get each and everyone that isn't a Muslim. I'm sorry that the men who try to call themselves Muslim have made the rest of us out to be evil with them. There is nothing I can do about any of this, believe me if there was I would be doing it as we speak. All I can do is pray and hope that ppl learn that Islam is not bad, Islam is not what the media portrays. So in closing I'll never try to argue with anyone about Islam, I know the truth, I can see beyond CNN, Fox, and the rest of the networks out there. I hope that each and everyone of you out there including those who would like to see me and my family dead have a very blessed and wonderful life filled with family, love, and happiness.

The ONLY reason I have adopted the stance that all muslims are "bad" is becuase of lack of evidence to the contrary in my experience. You can think what you want of me, no skin off my nose.

That being said I am going to take you at your word, can you give me links to organizations/blogs/newsletters/etc. which are actively protesting actions of extremists? I wish to send letters of support and possibly monetary donations.

Believe it or not I have read the koran multiple times (I own a copy) and other books on Islam such as, "How Islam Created the Modern World" and "Demystifying Islam: Your Guide To the Most Misunderstood Religion of the 21st Century." and a few others I can't quite remember the titles of (borrowed from library).

ELENATION · December 6, 2007

Thank you Elena and Green! I do also want to touch on the subject that started this thread. Just b/c a country is a Muslim dominate country doesn't mean they are following Sharia (Islamic Law). I used to think that until I met my husband who is from a Muslim country. Many many things each country practices is cultural and has nothing to do with Islam. Example would be the way women are treated in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, women are not to be treated that way in Islam. The situation with this teacher, well it's crazy but let me tell ya something, what they are doing is not following the Shari'a, they are making things up as they go. Most Muslim countries are that way, they have the Shari'a that they do follow just like all Muslims should but then they also have their own set of rules to follow that have nothing to do with Islam at all. My husband was born Muslim in Jordan and he even gets things mixed up, of course Non Muslims will as well b/c they don't know any better. Just b/c it comes from a Muslim country doesn't mean it's really Islam.

You are welcome, your post touched me, I found it heartfelt and I appreciated it.

You know, it happens in other religions too, some Chruches that claim to be Christians have made their own set of rules.... not necessarily good rules either... and don't follow the true Christianity... it does happens, so I understand you.:eek:

hijabigirl1973 · December 6, 2007

That being said I am going to take you at your word, can you give me links to organizations/blogs/newsletters/etc. which are actively protesting actions of extremists? I wish to send letters of support and possibly monetary donations.

There are too many to simply post in this thread but the link I'm about to post should give you some reading material to last you a while. If this isn't enough proof that Muslims fight against terrorism please let me know and I'll gladly provide even more links.

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Believe it or not I have read the koran multiple times (I own a copy) and other books on Islam such as, "How Islam Created the Modern World" and "Demystifying Islam: Your Guide To the Most Misunderstood Religion of the 21st Century." and a few others I can't quite remember the titles of (borrowed from library).

Ok and your point being?

DerickM · December 7, 2007

Ok and your point being?

Just clearing up that I am not some ignorant beaner who has never critically studied islam and thus have no right to have an opinion on Islam. Just in case anybody had that misconception.

DerickM · December 7, 2007

By the way thanks for the reading material, your good people.

Jachut · December 7, 2007

You do a pretty good impression then Derick.

Sades · December 7, 2007

I have known many Moslems over the last few years, including in my current job and I do not have a problem with them but I do have a problem with some of their clerics who make comments about how our women dress and how they ask to be raped by their men. Let's blame the victim. In Australia we had a really big rape case against a group of Muslem boys which got out of control with it's media coverage. As a woman who grew up in the 60's & 70's, I feel that we are being taken back thousands of years by these views and I don't like it.

sewenup1 · December 7, 2007

What is it the Christian bible says "an eye for an eye"?? Who started the crusades??? Not the most peace loving religion - and yes I am a Christian - in the full meaning of the word I hope.

Danna

Sades · December 7, 2007

The Christians have a lot to answer for in their time as well. As I said before, the things people do in the name of religion. I believe there are good and bad in any group of people and I say let people be but unfortunately that will never happen while there are zealots in this world.

Chris_NJ · December 11, 2007

Father killed daughter for not wearing hijab, her friends say
2 hours ago

OTTAWA (AFP) — Friends and classmates of a 16-year-old girl who police say was murdered by her devout Muslim father in a Toronto suburb told local media Tuesday she was killed for not wearing a hijab.

Police said in a statement they received an emergency call at 7:55 am local time Monday from "a man who indicated that he had just killed his daughter."

The victim, Aqsa Parvez, was "rushed to hospital with life-threatening injuries, but tragically passed away late last night."

Her father, Muhammad Parvez, 57, was arrested at the scene and will be formally charged with murder when he appears in court Wednesday, said police.

The girl's friends, meanwhile, told local media she was having trouble at home because she did not conform to the family's religious beliefs and refused to wear a traditional Islamic head scarf, or hijab.

"She wanted to go different ways than her family wanted to go, and she wanted to make her own path, but he (her father) wouldn't let her," one of her classmates told public broadcaster CBC.

"She loved clothes," another of her friends, Dominiquia Holmes-Thompson, told the daily Toronto Star. "She just wanted to show her beauty ... She just wanted to dress like us, just like a normal person."

According to her friends, Aqsa had worn the hijab at school last year, but rebelled in recent months.

They said she would leave home wearing a hijab and loose-fitting clothes, but would take off her head scarf and change into tighter garments at school, then change back before going home at the end of the day.

The victim's 26 year-old brother was also charged with obstructing police in the investigation.